chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

 
Chessgames.com User Profile Chessforum
playground player
Member since Oct-01-06 · Last seen Oct-31-14
NJ--no rating. Favorites, Morphy, Marshall, Anderssen. Played a lot as a teen, then let it go for 40 years. Trying to reconstitute myself as a chess player.

Meanwhile, let this forum serve as a refuge from wild-eyed loony leftism. Here there will be no admiration for Hugo Chavez, Castro, or any of the other tin-pot dictators admired by chess players from the safety of freedom-loving Western democracies. Here will be found a premise that most of the nations of the world today are governed by Godless fools. Ours, too, unfortunately.

I was also going to say some uncomplimentary things about Queen Pawn games, the Sicilian and the French Defenses, Semi-Slav games, and a few other chess matters. But as those are purely questions of personal taste, I have chosen to leave them alone.

Since setting up this forum, I have also had several novels published: "Bell Mountain," "The Cellar Beneath the Cellar," and "The Thunder King." For more information about them (and me), visit my website, http://leeduigon.com/

Update, much delayed: my fourth book, "The Last Banquet," came out last year, and my fifth, "The Fugitive Prince," I expect to be published sometime this Spring. For book covers and free sample chapters, visit my blog.

Update again: "The Fugitive Prince" is out now and the next project is "The Palace." Editing is well advanced, but we're still waiting for a cover.

Chessgames.com Full Member

   playground player has kibitzed 4369 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Oct-31-14 playground player chessforum (replies)
 
playground player: <Esteemed Colleagues> You won't believe how liberals at the University of Wisconsin think you should celebrate Halloween. See it here. http://leeduigon.com/2014/10/31/how... <optimal play> <God is not like Zeus or some old man with a white beard...> Duh, ...
 
   Oct-26-14 Shabalov vs Aronian, 2004 (replies)
 
playground player: When you see the enemy King cowering behind a screen of Pawns, tear it away.
 
   Oct-19-14 Phony Benoni chessforum (replies)
 
playground player: I think I'd take the $10,000. My idol is Davy Crockett, and it'd be kind of unnerving to meet him.
 
   Oct-14-14 J Saradjen vs M Perunovic, 2004 (replies)
 
playground player: When I come to grief in the Polish Opening, it's very often because I've allowed Black to establish a Knight on the fourth rank. I have had to learn not to allow that.
 
   Oct-08-14 K Bischoff vs K Mueller, 2004 (replies)
 
playground player: What Black really needs here is just one extra move. Just one.
 
   Oct-07-14 hms123 chessforum (replies)
 
playground player: <hms123> It ain't noir, but it sure is motley. I think you'll love these pictures of simple jobs done hopelessly wrong. http://leeduigon.com/2014/10/07/the... Everything OK with you? Haven't seen much of you lately.
 
   Oct-01-14 M Martinez Romero vs D Gonzales, 2014 (replies)
 
playground player: Bxh7... just like puncturing a tire.
 
   Sep-30-14 H Lehmann vs K Junge, 1942 (replies)
 
playground player: Hmm... A couple of Germans in a German city in 1942, playing the Semi-Slav Defense, Botvinnik System... And the Gestapo didn't grab them?
 
   Sep-26-14 Capablanca vs R T Black, 1911
 
playground player: It looks to me like Capablanca didn't have a lot of respect for this opponent. It seems I'm not the only one who thought so.
 
   Sep-22-14 jessicafischerqueen chessforum (replies)
 
playground player: How Unrealistic Dialogue Can Totally Destroy a Novel: Real Life Example #1 (author's name withheld, title withheld, you'll have to trust me on this one): The setting: Cornwall, circa 470 A.D. Merlin turns to another character and says (cross my heart), "Ya got a problem ...
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 348 OF 348 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-29-14  cormier: Gospel: The narrow gate and the universal call to salvation
Oct-29-14  cormier: http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings...
Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: <optimal play> Gee, I wish a knew how to type out a big, loud raspberry--you'd get one.

Oh! If only I could "learn" to believe in Evolution! Which no one has ever observed, which can't be tested, which can't be explained, etc. Why, then maybe I could "learn" to believe in Global Warming and Redistribution of Wealth, too! Once you break down the Evolution barrier, the sky's the limit--you're wide-open to just about anything.

<jessicafischerqueen> Here's the updated story, so far.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...

The missing man turned up 100 miles away from the stadium. No one seems to know how he did it. We aren't being told much about this case at all.

Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: The smirking sense of intellectual superiority rather drives me crazy. The argument from that side, in a nutshell, is "We believe what the majority of scientists of today say." Wow, what a foundation to congratulate one another for not being as ignorant as those who don't agree with you.
Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: Raspberry sound? Easy!! I have usually seen Psttttttp from Bloom County, but C&H use a slightly different variation:

http://www.thesneeze.com/art/razz/c...

Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: <WannaBe> Thank you very much.

<optimal play> THBPBPTHPT!

<OCF> Nobody smirks like liberals. I think they invented it.

Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I'm not bad at it myself.
Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <optimal play><You'll keep having that dream until you attain a mature understanding of these biblical stories.>

Perhaps you didn't intend it, but that does come off sounding a bit condescending.

I may actually agree with your position that the Bible and science need not be viewed in opposition to each other, but I don't think it's a question of maturity.

If it's just about maturity, then where does it stop? For instance, do you believe the Biblical healing miracles? Or God's divine protection of Israel? Or in the resurrection? Or that there *really* is a God? If you do, then there's always a more "mature" theologian out there who is waiting for you to "attain a mature understanding of these biblical stories".

With enough maturity of this sort, Christianity becomes just another human philosophy that nobody really needs.

Personally, I'd feel in better company with someone who insists on (what I regard as) overly literal interpretations of scripture than someone who feels at ease dismissing the remarkable accounts of scripture as a matter of human "maturity".

Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <YouRang: Perhaps you didn't intend it, but that does come off sounding a bit condescending.>

Riiiiiiiiight. It was totally unintended. Here's some more stuff that could sound ever so slightly condescending, I mean you could take it that way, sort of, but not really, maybe a tiny bit.

<Colonel Mortimer: Closed minds that do not wish to be opened>

<Optimal: The disappointing thing is that a fundamentalist wouldn't even consider reading a book like that. As soon as they got a sniff that it debunks their beloved young-earth beliefs, they would dismiss it as atheistic propaganda, despite the fact that it's written by a Christian evangelical!>

It's obvious you pride yourself on being understanding and respectful with someone who doesn't see things the same way as you. At some point, and I will concede there's no visible line in the sand, but at some point, that becomes consorting with the enemy. And I think the American religious world has tried to talk reasonably with the other side so long and so much they've begun to believe the other side's propaganda. It started with Eve talking to the serpent, and sort of, kind of, beginning to see things his way, and it has never stopped. I recognize there's no objective way to measure such a thing but I think you're waaaaaay wrong on this one.

Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  optimal play: Why are all the fundamentalists so angry at me?

Lee decided he wanted to tell the whole world about his recurring dream so I just assumed he wanted a little help with its interpretation :)

Anyway, I didn't mean to hurt any of your feelings, but I probably should have known that being blunt about this issue would send fundamentalist sensibilities into a flap!

<YouRang> <Perhaps you didn't intend it, but that does come off sounding a bit condescending> Re-reading my post, perhaps <immature> wasn't the right word to use, but being back in high school seemed to connote the idea of not being grown up.

<do you believe the Biblical healing miracles?> When properly understood as “signs”

<Or God's divine protection of Israel?> The covenant shouldn’t just be narrowly defined as “divine protection”

<Or in the resurrection?> Without doubt!

<Or that there *really* is a God?> Yes, of course.

What I don't understand is that fundamentalists seem to equate everything in the Bible as of the same importance, as if the literal account of one thing being called into question somehow causes everything to be suspect. Obviously that's not the case.

And I would never “dismiss” any part of Scripture, all of which I consider to be remarkable, if not literally factual.

<OhioChessFan> Well, pride is the first deadly sin, so I guess I'll have to work on that, but I'm not sure what you mean by <consorting with the enemy>?

Anyway, would you consider reading that book?

I'm only about half-way through but so far it's very interesting.

Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  optimal play: <chancho> <jessicafischerqueen> I like Robin the best!

My favourite part of the movie is when Robin gets hit in the face with the pies :D

My second favourite part is when Robin gets hit in the face with the mop :D

It’s a shame YouTube seems to have taken down all the movie clips, but we have the DVD to enjoy it over and over again

Of course fundamentalists don't like Godspell

They prefer Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ

ugh!

Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <Anyway, would you consider reading that book? >

No, I'm too narrow minded and unintelligent for that, hyuk, hyuk, hyuk.

Oct-29-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I guess I had a really good week once, and I did read Hugh Ross' Creation and Time. All the multisyllabic words were hard to understand though.
Oct-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: <optimal play> I feel no need to demonstrate my "maturity" by signing on to some relic of 19th-century science that only continues to exist because there is so much invested in it, politically and culturally.

You do <consort with the enemy>, you know: in that you keep fellowship with persons who have overtly expressed a deep hostility to Christianity, and curry favor with them by making snarky remarks about your fellow Christians. Sometimes you come off sounding like you want to get together with Richard Dawkins and open an antiques shop.

I would say it is spiritually dangerous for a Christian to try to cultivate the good opinion of a fallen world.

Oct-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: <optimal play> BTW, on your page you quote the Pope as saying, "God is not a divine being."

Do you agree with that statement?

And if God is not a divine being, what is He?

And what is this Pope worshiping?

Oct-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <optimal play: Why are all the fundamentalists so angry at me?>

My post to you wasn't angry. And my questions about which things you believed were given only to make the point that someone else will regard you as being the "immature" one for holding those beliefs.

We each like to believe that we're the mature one and everyone else is less mature. But taking this stance gets us nowhere -- unless we actually want to be perceived as condescending.

Oct-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <OhioChessFan><It's obvious you pride yourself on being understanding and respectful with someone who doesn't see things the same way as you.>

I do think that <being understanding and respectful with someone who doesn't see things the same way as you> is a virtue. But I don't think it's a matter of "priding myself". On the contrary, being respectful of other people's views is more like an act of humility. Prideful people are inclined to assume that their own view is Truth and be dismissive of other views, no?

~~~~

<At some point, and I will concede there's no visible line in the sand, but at some point, that becomes consorting with the enemy. And I think the American religious world has tried to talk reasonably with the other side so long and so much they've begun to believe the other side's propaganda.>

Well, here's another place we seem to have different world views. In your mind, to respectfully hear other views is "consorting with the enemy". And yet, we would like others to respectfully hear our views, no? Do we not treat others as we would want them to treat us?

And then you divide the world in terms of "your side" and "the other side". Who is the other side? Unbelievers? Do you view unbelievers as the enemy? Or are they fellow sinners who need the mercy and forgiveness that God graciously offered to you? Are we not supposed to bless them even when they hate us?

I agree that the church has become corrupted. But that is not due to respectfully talking with unbelievers (which we are supposed to do). That happens because we don't believe and uphold the instructions from God to keep the church pure (which we are also supposed to do).

~~~~

<It started with Eve talking to the serpent, and sort of, kind of, beginning to see things his way, and it has never stopped.>

She didn't sin when she spoke with the serpent. She sinned when she failed to believe and uphold the instructions from God.

<I recognize there's no objective way to measure such a thing but I think you're waaaaaay wrong on this one.>

Okay, I'm sure you do. I'm willing to respectfully hear your arguments as to why I'm wrong -- even at the risk of "believing your propaganda". ;-)

Oct-30-14  cormier: http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings...
Oct-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  optimal play: <playground player> I certainly never meant to imply that you yourself were immature, but being in high school has connotations of immaturity, and I do think that a superficial reading of the Bible is something that Christians initially begin with before developing a more mature understanding of God's Word as revealed to us in Holy Scripture.

<... some relic of 19th-century science that only continues to exist because there is so much invested in it, politically and culturally ...> You're joking, right?

I don't think molecular biology was studied in the 19th century, and quite apart from the fossil evidence, the information derived from DNA in recent years is conclusive.

<You do <consort with the enemy>, you know: in that you keep fellowship with persons who have overtly expressed a deep hostility to Christianity ...> Keep fellowship? By exchanging a few posts on a chess website?

St Paul himself acknowledges our necessity of living in the <fallen world> (cf 1 Corinthians 5:10)

<... and curry favor with them by making snarky remarks about your fellow Christians> No, I don’t curry favour, but I do admit making jokes about fundamentalist ideas (I mean ... c’mon ... they even believe that Joshua stopped the Sun for crying out loud!)

<Sometimes you come off sounding like you want to get together with Richard Dawkins and open an antiques shop> ha ha that’s hilarious!

<I would say it is spiritually dangerous for a Christian to try to cultivate the good opinion of a fallen world> Yes, but I'm not trying to do that.

<... on your page you quote the Pope as saying, "God is not a divine being." Do you agree with that statement? And if God is not a divine being, what is He? And what is this Pope worshiping?>

Obviously Papa Francis is making the point that God is not like Zeus or some old man with a long white beard who lives above the clouds!

But a literal fundamentalist reading of the Bible seems to imply that!

<YouRang> <In your mind, to respectfully hear other views is "consorting with the enemy". And yet, we would like others to respectfully hear our views, no? Do we not treat others as we would want them to treat us? And then you divide the world in terms of "your side" and "the other side". Who is the other side? Unbelievers? Do you view unbelievers as the enemy? Or are they fellow sinners who need the mercy and forgiveness that God graciously offered to you? Are we not supposed to bless them even when they hate us?> +1

<<It started with Eve talking to the serpent, and sort of, kind of, beginning to see things his way, and it has never stopped.> She didn't sin when she spoke with the serpent. She sinned when she failed to believe and uphold the instructions from God.> Excellent point!

And you don't need to literally believe in a talking snake to appreciate that wisdom!

Oct-31-14  cormier: Gospel: Meal at a Pharisee on the Sabbath : healing the dropsy
Oct-31-14  cormier: http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings...
Oct-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: <Esteemed Colleagues> You won't believe how liberals at the University of Wisconsin think you should celebrate Halloween. See it here.

http://leeduigon.com/2014/10/31/how...

<optimal play> <God is not like Zeus or some old man with a white beard...> Duh, I think even us lowly, immature fundamentalists already know that. But hey, it wasn't fundamentalists who painted God as an old man with a white beard on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

So, God stopping the sun for Joshua is not worthy of belief; but life creating itself from non-living materials, and the amoeba evolving into Shakespeare via an endless number of chance mutations... is?

You say you don't mean to come off as condescending, and I take you at your word. Nevertheless, you do what you don't mean to do (proving only that you are human: we all do it, even St. Paul: see Romans Chap. 7).

I would say one's faith shows where one's heart is. Among the components of faith are trust and love. If Christ Himself, and His apostles, spoke of Adam and Noah as real persons involved in real events, who am I to say those persons never existed, those events never really happened? And why should I care if some "Bible scholar" or "scientist" says otherwise?

As for God making the sun behave oddly--or appearing to do so--let's fast-forward to the 20th century and the miracle of the sun at Fatima. Did that happen, or didn't it?

Oct-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  optimal play: <playground player> <Halloween> We don't celebrate that down here but in recent years the shops have begun pushing it because they see the opportunity to make money out of it!

The whole thing sounds stupid!

<... it wasn't fundamentalists who painted God as an old man with a white beard on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel>

I don't come across too many people who are critical of Michelangelo's art!

Do you have an opinion on Jackson Pollock's "Blue Poles"? :D

<If Christ Himself, and His apostles, spoke of Adam and Noah as real persons involved in real events, who am I to say those persons never existed, those events never really happened?> This has been satisfactorily dealt with before!

Gospel passages such as Matthew 24:37-39 simply assume knowledge of these stories and use them to make a point; in this instance, the fact that there will not be any signs prior to the Second Coming!

It doesn't imply the necessity for historical fact nor was it even an issue in the first century!

<As for God making the sun behave oddly--or appearing to do so ...> Appearing to do so?

That doesn't sound like a literal reading! :D

But if by that you mean the fact that (contrary to what the Biblical authors believed) it is the earth which revolves around the sun and not vice versa, then I suppose it would have to have been the earth which stopped, thus giving the appearance of the sun stopping.

But then do you know what would happen if the earth stopped rotating?

We would all fly off into outer space!

Please ... let's read the Bible sensibly!

<... let's fast-forward to the 20th century and the miracle of the sun at Fatima ...> Oh dear!

This is when Catholics scatter and run for the hills!

Hey, I still can't get my head around Medjugorje, despite all the posts by <cormier>, so don't throw Fatima at me! :D

Oct-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <optimal play><Gospel passages such as Matthew 24:37-39 simply assume knowledge of these stories and use them to make a point; in this instance, the fact that there will not be any signs prior to the Second Coming!>

?!

Again, I don't see how you can possibly arrive at that conclusion.

Look a few verse earlier:

<29 “But <<immediately after the tribulation of those days>> THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then <<all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING>> ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.>

So, might not the tribulation of those days be seen as a sign of second coming of the Son of Man? And isn't this the same event as mentioned in your verse 37?

~~~

And look how that tribulation begins:

<15“Therefore <<when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet>>, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. .... For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. >

So wouldn't this abomination event that Jesus warns about be a sign of the great tribulation?

~~~

And look at the passage immediately before the one you quoted:

<32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33so, you too, <<when you see all these things>>, recognize that He is near, right at the door.>

When you see "all these things" (what things?), then He is near and at the door. Wouldn't "all these things" thus be a sign?

Oct-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  optimal play: <YouRang> <might not the tribulation of those days be seen as a sign of second coming of the Son of Man? And isn't this the same event as mentioned in your verse 37?> Nope.

<wouldn't this abomination event that Jesus warns about be a sign of the great tribulation?> Nope.

I thought I clarified this earlier...

Each of the Synoptic Gospels include a "Little Apocalypse" just before the account of the Passion (Mark 13 & Matthew 24 & Luke 21).

Because of their proximity to recent events and the experiences they were living through, their perspective was quite different to ours on the other side of the world 2,000 years later.

So the evangelists have combined three separate things:-

1) The persecution of Jesus' disciples following his death and resurrection

2) The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 c.e.

3) Christ's Second Coming

<the tribulation of those days> refers to (2) The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 c.e.

<THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky> is apocalyptic imagery from Isaiah & Joel

Matthew 24:37ff is clear enough ... <... they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man>

<the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)>

<let the reader understand> Good advice!

The reference again is to (2) The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 c.e.

And contrary to what some right-wing nutcases might think, it should *not* be translated <OBAMA NATION OF DESOLATION> :D

<the parable from the fig tree> same again.

Whilst the signs pointing to the destruction of Jerusalem remain a lesson for people of all times, including our own, they relate to the rise and fall of civilisations rather than the end of the world.

People looking for signs of the End Times are like the Apostles not knowing what to do when Jesus left... <<“why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”> Acts 1:11>

Let me ask you something... What if there are signs? What would you do if signs suddenly appeared heralding the end? How would you act differently? Would you suddenly start running around in a mad panic desperately trying to be "holy" enough in the last few hours or minutes or whatever?

If you're looking for signs then you're missing the point!

Jump to page #   (enter # from 1 to 348)
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 348 OF 348 ·  Later Kibitzing>

Take the Premium Membership Tour
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other users.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.


NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific user and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.

You are not logged in to chessgames.com.
If you need an account, register now;
it's quick, anonymous, and free!
If you already have an account, click here to sign-in.

View another user profile:
  


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | advertising | contact us
Copyright 2001-2014, Chessgames Services LLC
Web design & database development by 20/20 Technologies