< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 393 OF 393 ·
|Jun-30-15|| ||Jim Bartle: Even the police breaking up a gay parade have gone gay!!|
|Jun-30-15|| ||playground player: <Big Pawn> Yes, American Christians are to blame for frittering away our heritage.|
We had things too easy for too long, so we got fat and stopped hitting.
For over 100 years, too many churches in America taught Christians that the Rapture was coming soon, so why bother?
As a Christian nation that tolerated non-Christian religions, exhibiting religious toleration to a degree unheard-of anywhere else, we gradually bought into the spiel that "Oh, no, this isn't a Christian country! It's a pluralist country! And all religions and non-religions are absolutely equal", (with atheism being somewhat more equal than others).
A civilization with homosexuality as its moral foundation--what'll they think of next?
|Jun-30-15|| ||Jim Bartle: <As a Christian nation that tolerated non-Christian religions...>|
I'm sorry, <pgp>, but where does that come from? In the Declaration? The Constitution? How is it consistent with the First Amendment?
|Jul-01-15|| ||WannaBe: https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...|
So, we now have Lies, Damned Lies, and History Books!?
|Jul-01-15|| ||playground player: <Jim Bartle> As late as 1892, the Supreme Court had no qualms about describing the United State as a Christian nation.|
No one had a problem with that until the 20th century.
Do you dispute that the United States, at its inception, was populated overwhelmingly by Christians?
To say the US was a Christian country is only to state a fact of history.
But that's an unpopular fact today, so it is to be treated as though it weren't true.
That's how five lawyers get to redefine a basic human institution.
|Jul-01-15|| ||playground player: <WannaBe> Ah, the Washington Post! You will excuse my inability to believe anything they publish.|
So we gotta erase the Confederate flag because it stood for slavery. Then again, the American flag also stood for slavery, once upon a time. So we gotta get rid of that, too.
But every country's gotta have a flag--so what will our new flag be? The UN flag? The Rainbow Sodomite flag? Is there an official Feminist flag we might use?
Libs just can't get enough of punishing the South for losing the Civil War.
|Jul-01-15|| ||Jim Bartle: <Do you dispute that the United States, at its inception, was populated overwhelmingly by Christians?>|
Just because a majority of the population were Christians does not make it a Christian nation. The Constitution seems to make it clear it is not a nation based on any religion.
<That's how five lawyers get to redefine a basic human institution.>
Five lawyers appointed by a person elected by the entire nation and ratified by the elected representatives of all the states.
It's funny that the right demands an end, or changes, to the Supreme Court when they don't like a decision. The left may disagree vehemently with (ridiculous) decisions such as Citizens United or ending the key enforcement provisions of the Voting Rights Act, but you don't see the left calling for end of the Court, or making Justices elected positions.
|Jul-01-15|| ||Jim Bartle: <So we gotta erase the Confederate flag because it stood for slavery. Then again, the American flag also stood for slavery, once upon a time. So we gotta get rid of that, too.>|
I guess most of all of the United States had slavery in 1789, but it was gone in all states except the South by 1821. The US flag stood for many things besides slavery at first, and from 1821 did not stand for it.
The Confederate flag stands first and foremost for slavery. There's no way around that. Read the documents of secession in the different states.
|Jul-01-15|| ||cormier: Gospel: " Have you come to torment us before the time ? " ... http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings...|
|Jul-01-15|| ||playground player: <Jim Bartle> When the Constitution was drafted, almost everyone in the country was a Christian.|
The First Amendment was a guarantee that no Christian denomination should come to dominate the others, as so commonly was the case in Europe. Our Founders were not trying to make America "pluralistic" or "multicultural." Those concepts did not exist at that time.
I did not say there should be no Supreme Court, although just now, that doesn't seem like such a bad idea.
Trying to make out that Supreme Court decisions are somehow reflective of democracy is nonsense.
Somehow we have wound up being ruled--and I do mean ruled, not governed--by a combination of court rulings and executive orders by the president. This resembles nothing envisioned in the Constitution.
It is inconceivable that our Founders intended for us to sit with bated breath while a few little tin gods in a court decide what marriage is supposed to be.
The Constitution does give Congress the authority to remove such matters from the courts' jurisdiction, but Congress refuses to exercise this authority. I guess they like being able to shrug their shoulders while the Supreme Court does their dirty work.
And just in passing, the SC decisions upholding Obamacare are an obscene parody of government.
|Jul-01-15|| ||WannaBe: Don't know if I want to laugh, cry, or just bang my head against the wall until I pass out.|
|Jul-02-15|| ||cormier: Gospel: " The crowds gave glory to God who gave such power to men" ... http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings...|
|Jul-02-15|| ||Jim Bartle: I simply do not see any evidence that the US was created as a Christian nation. It is not in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, and I cannot understand the interpretation that the First Amendment was written only to keep one Christian group from dominating others. That is not what it says.|
And of course only eight years after the Constitution was enacted the US signed the Treaty of Tripoli, which openly declared the US is not a Christian nation. This was a treaty begun by Washington and signed by John Adams.
The Christian nation idea seems to have developed most in the 1950s as a reaction to the New Deal, when "one nation under God" became part of the pledge allegiance and "in God we trust" became the national motto. (I don't object to either of those.)
|Jul-02-15|| ||cormier: http://www.downfacebook.com/downloa...|
|Jul-02-15|| ||playground player: <Jim Bartle> You've left out part of the story.|
Immediately after the Treaty of Tripoli was ratified in 1796, there was much dissent within the U.S. government over the phrase, in Article 11, about the United States "being in no sense a Christian Republic."
When the treaty was re-issued in 1805, that phrase was deleted.
As I see it, there is no such thing as true religious neutrality. In our time, the pursuit of this illusion has left us with the default position that secular humanism is the dominant religion in America.
Certainly our government, at all levels, behaves as if it were.
|Jul-02-15|| ||Jim Bartle: I did not know that. It doesn't change my argument.
Christianity is by far the default religion in the United States. The vast majority of officeholders are Christian. That does not mean Christianity determines public policies, as most of those officeholders realize.
|Jul-02-15|| ||Big Pawn: <jim> Perhaps you can tell us how Christian office holders divorce the foundation of their worldview from their decision making progress?|
America is historically a Christian nation, meaning it was populated by people who think the same way. The Ten Commandments were everywhere and still are (court houses etc...).
While some founding father intellectuals were diests, the rest did not hide their Christianity. It was just that Protestants didn't want to be pushed around by Catholics and so forth. The main point being that Christianity was s given; it was just a matter of denominational differences.
The pilgrims were escaping religious persecution for example.
Your claim about seeing no evidence isn't very convincing.
I can say that I see no evidence that <jim bartle> exists if I want. What does it mean?
We don't have to go back to the founding fathers to look for ubiquitous Christianity in America. Just watch the old black and white movies on AMC and you can clearly see that our culture was very Christian. It's reflected in those old movies.
Denying this amounts to nothing but denial and people in denial are not able to be reasoned with. Besides, everyone really knows it's true. I don't believe that liberals really think that there was any question about the Christianity of America. It's all baloney.
|Jul-02-15|| ||Jim Bartle: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..."|
|Jul-03-15|| ||Big Pawn: <Jim Bartle: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...">|
I'm not asking about that and it doesn't asnwer my question. Follow the thread of this discussion carefully:
<That does not mean Christianity determines public policies, as most of those officeholders realize.>
Jim, Christianity is a worldview. All thoughts pass through the lense of one's worldview. Christianity need not be officially declared the religion of the land in order to influence office holders in this country. The worldview drives ones thinking and decision making. It's in our thinking fundamentally and does not go away from lack of official religious declaration in the government.
That's why I asked,
<Big Pawn: <jim> Perhaps you can tell us how Christian office holders divorce the foundation of their worldview from their decision making process?>
|Jul-03-15|| ||cormier: Gospel : Unbelief and faith of Thomas ...http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings...|
|Jul-03-15|| ||Jim Bartle: Christian lawmakers can certainly be guided by their religious beliefs while not imposing the Christian religion on the nation. Most do with little problem. There is freedom of religion in the United States; religion cannot be imposed.|
To illustrate the point, Bernie Sanders, Dianne Feinstein, Erik Cantor and Joe Leiberman are Jewish, but they never attempted to make eating pork illegal. Keith Ellison is a Muslim, but he has not introduced legislation to make it mandatory for women to wear headscarves.
|Jul-03-15|| ||playground player: <Jim Bartle> We're just never going to agree on this. My definition of "a Christian country" would be "a country where the great majority of the people are Christians, and whose laws and customs and institutions are based on Christianity." I don't know what else you'd call such a country. And if that description doesn't apply today, it certainly used to.|
Secular humanists ***always*** get to "impose their religion" on everybody else. Always.
As for our officeholders supposedly being Christians... well, that's just protective coloration.
P.S.--I shudder to think--and you should shudder, too--what this country would be like if policymakers had never been influenced by the Christian worldview.
What it is being turned into now will be something like that.
|Jul-03-15|| ||Jim Bartle: We're talking past each other. But I do agree completely with this:|
<P.S.--I shudder to think--and you should shudder, too--what this country would be like if policymakers had never been influenced by the Christian worldview.>
|Jul-04-15|| ||cormier: Gospel: " Could the wedding guests be in mourning for the time when the bridegroom is with them? " ... http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings...|
|Jul-04-15|| ||playground player: <Jim Bartle> <we're talking past each other> I hate it when that happens. But at least it's not on the radio, with both of us talking simultaneously.|
<WannaBe> I'll use that clip you sent me, probably in my next Newswithviews column.
But if you think it's intrusive to ask parents "vaginal or C-section," you ain't seen nothing yet. Check out this.
Happy 4th of July, to whatever is left of America.
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