|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 782 OF 1784 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Nov-13-07 | | Artar1: Thorsson's post is worth repeating. I have put it in my forum heading. The play he recommends corresponds with the various simulations I have run, and what he offers here is a good idea to follow: <Thorsson: Going against the grain of complete "fantasy" game scores which seem to be taking over the board at present, I thought I'd try and introduce a little strategical discussion here.I thought I saw a recent comment that we have a strong LSB. I have to disagree. Our Bg2 bites on Black's c6/d5 pawn chain, which is going to be difficult to undermine - first we have to get the Q out of the way, then we have to successfully play b4 (and that means stopping a4) and then b5. And of course, if we do that we also free Black's bad LSB. What's more by exchanging all those pawns we've made Black's drawing task easier. My plan here would be to get Knights to c5 and d4, blockading the pawns and tying the Black pieces down to defending c6 and e6, and maybe exchange the B on e4 to get rid of Black's active Knight. We can also try pressurising the a-isolani.> |
|
Nov-13-07
 | | Tabanus: <imag: Is this an improvement in the 22.Nd4 line?> No... 19.Rbc1 Qe7 20.Qxe7+ Rxe7 21.Na4 Rb8 22.Nd4 Rb4 23.Bxe4 Rxe4 24.Nc5 Rbxd4 25.Rxd4 Rxd4 26.Nxd7 Rd2 27.Rxc6 Ne8 28.Rc5 a4 29.a3 Nd6 30.Kf1 Rd1+ 31.Kg2 Rd2 32.Kf3 <32...Ne4> 0.18/22 33.Ra5 Rxb2 34.Rxd5 Nd2+ 35.Kf4 Nc4 36.Rd4 Nxa3 37.Rxa4 Nb1 0.13/19 |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | imag: <Tabanus>
Yes, it's probably not winnable... |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | chesstoplay: The team roster is almost to 2,000 players. |
|
Nov-13-07
 | | kwgurge: Thank goodness they all don't post! :-) |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | ajile: <chesstoplay: The team roster is almost to 2,000 players. > Too bad only about 10% of those actually participate and vote. |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | Pawnsgambit: I seriosly doubt most people voted twice or thrice for the opening move looking at the voting was so close to call even. The corresponce match always attracted around 300 to 400 people since the first match with GMAN. It makes you wonder how all of a sudden there are 2000 people for the first move? |
|
Nov-13-07
 | | rinus: Source <rebjorn> for first move (1125 voters): __1/ -235 / -235 / ---6091 / -6091 / -1125-/ 530-519 (_11/1125=1.0%) / --*N*-- |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | isemeria: I think this variation needs more analysis: 17...Re8 18. Bxg7+ Kxg7 19. Rbc1 <Qf6> 20. Nd4 (19. Nd4 <Qf6> 20. Rbc1 transposes). Analysis on the fora and main page has concentrated on 19...Qe7, but 19...Qf6 seems like a viable alternative for Black. Or is there already a refutation? |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | Ceri: Hi, all.
I only found this game today and need to try to get my head around it. Time to take the position to the little magnetic set in the bathrooom. |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | Ceri: Hi, all.
I just found this game and will try to get my head around it. I'll try to learn from the work which you have already done. Cheers,
Ceri
|
|
| Nov-13-07 | | twinlark: <Ceri>
Welcome to chessgames.com and to this game!
You can find navigation aids to this game by clicking on the Sticky at the top of this page to the left of the chessboard. Hope you enjoy your time here. |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | DPLeo: < Ceri: Hi, all.
I just found this game and will try to get my head around it. I'll try to learn from the work which you have already done. Cheers,
Ceri>
Hi Ceri!
Welcome to the game. There are some very strong analysts here. Some of which we've been playing with for years . I think we are giving this cc GM and world champion a run for his money. Looking forward to seeing your take on our position. Dave
(GMwB) |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | kb2ct: What do you think GMT would play as white on move 19?? It really is more of a psycological decision than an analytic one. If black plays Qe7 and the blockade is prepared on move 19 by Rbc1, white gains a tempo for another blockade move after a queen exchange. Other move 19's don't allow this. Should we play 19. Nd4 hoping for Qf6 instead of Qe7?? I wish it were GMT's choice not our's.
Probably the best we can do is explain the consequences of the move choices and emphasize that there is no forced win, but that it determines the flavor of subsequent play |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | kb2ct: After 19. Rbc1 it isn't necessary to exploit the blockade and pawn structure quicly. Chess engines don't quite understand the theory. 1. d4 f5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 g6 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. O-O O-O 6. c4 d6 7. Nc3 c6 8. Qb3
Kh8 9. Rd1 Na6 10. Qa3 Nc7 11. d5 Bd7 12. Rb1 a5 13. dxc6 bxc6 14. c5 Ne4 15.
cxd6 exd6 16. Bf4 d5 17. Be5 Re8 18. Bxg7+ Kxg7 19. Rbc1 Qe7 20. Qxe7+ Rxe7 21.
Na4 Rb8 22. b3 Nb5 23. e3 g5 24. Ne1 g4 25. Nd3 Nbd6 26. h3 h5 27. Nac5 Nxc5
28. Rxc5 Nb7 29. Rc2 gxh3 30. Bxh3
This is a definite white edge that isn't possible after 19. Pe3 |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | DPLeo: < kb2ct: After 19. Rbc1 it isn't necessary to exploit the blockade and pawn structure quicly. Chess engines don't quite understand the theory. 1. d4 f5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 g6 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. O-O O-O 6. c4 d6 7. Nc3 c6 8. Qb3 Kh8 9. Rd1 Na6 10. Qa3 Nc7 11. d5 Bd7 12. Rb1 a5 13. dxc6 bxc6 14. c5 Ne4 15. cxd6 exd6 16. Bf4 d5 17. Be5 Re8 18. Bxg7+ Kxg7 19. Rbc1 Qe7 20. Qxe7+ Rxe7 21. Na4 Rb8 22. b3 Nb5 23. e3 g5 24. Ne1 g4 25. Nd3 Nbd6 26. h3 h5 27. Nac5 Nxc5 28. Rxc5 Nb7 29. Rc2 gxh3 30. Bxh3 This is a definite white edge that isn't possible after 19. Pe3> I don't think a cc GM will play 19... Qe7. Engines are quick to make trades due to the horizon effect. A cc world champion may not be so quick to trade queens. |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | kwid: Nov-13-07 < DPLeo: < kb2ct: After 19. Rbc1 it isn't necessary to exploit the blockade and pawn structure quickly. Chess engines don't quite understand the theory >
click for larger viewIt needs long range planning to get his isolani on a5.
We need a rook on a4,Ba6 to take out Nb7 and prepare Nc5 to allow
Ba6 against rook defending the a-pawn.
click for larger viewHere is the position with our first goal achieved. Can we force
him to give up the a-pawn, well this is another story ---. 
click for larger viewAll we have to do is trade of our passer for a winning endgame. 
click for larger viewAs you will see the transition is not always easy and sometime
actually hard work. Unless the opponent is somewhat helpful. 
click for larger viewNow that was easier then expected. All we have to do now is calculated
the depth required to mate and make an announcement  # in xx. Do you want to see how it was done:
17. Be5 Re8 18. Bxg7+ Kxg7 19. Rbc1 Qe7 20. Qxe7+ Rxe7 21.Na4 Rb8 22. b3 Nb5 23. e3 g5 24. Ne1 g4 25. Nd3 Nbd6 26. h3 h5 27. Nac5 Nxc5 28. Rxc5 Nb7 29. Rc2 gxh3 30. Bxh3 Rh8 31. Bg2 Nd8 32. Nf4 h4 33. gxh4 Rxh4 34.
Rd4 Rh6 35. Kf1 Nb7 36. Ra4 Be8 37. Bf3 Rh8 38. Be2 Kf6 39. Ba6 Nd6 40. Rxa5 Rh1+ 41. Ke2 Rh4 42. Kd3 Rh2 43. b4 Reh7 44. a4 Rh1 45. Kc3 Rb1 46. Bd3 Ne4+ 47. Bxe4 fxe4 48. Ra8 Bd7 49. a5 Rhh1 50. a6 Ke7 51. Rg8 Ra1 52. b5 cxb5 53.Nxd5+ Kf7 54. Rd8 Be6 55. Nc7 Bc4 56. Rd7+ Kg6 57. Kb4 Rh5 58. Rcd2 Ra4+ 59.Kc3 Re5 60. R2d6+ Kf5 61. Rh7 Kg4 62. Rg7+ Kf5 63. Rc6 Ra3+ 64. Kb2 Ra2+ 65.Kb1 Ra4 66. Rh6 Bd3+ 67. Kb2 Rb4+ 68. Kc3 Ra4 69. Kb3 Bc4+ 70. Kb2 Ra2+ 71. Kb1 Ra3 72. a7 Rxa7 73. Rh5+ Kf6 74. Ne8+ Rxe8 75. Rxa7 Kg6 76. Rc5 Re6 77. Rac7 Kf6 78. Rh7 Kg6 79. Rch5 Be2 (79... Re8 80. Rh8 Rxh8 81. Rxh8 Kg7 82. Rd8 Kf6 83. Kb2 Ke7 84. Rd4 Bd3 85. f4 Ke6 86. Kc3 Kf6 87. Rxd3) 80. R5h6+ Kf5 81. Rxe6 Kxe6 82. Kc2 Kd5 83. Kc3 Kc5 84. Rc7+ Kd6 85. Rg7 Kd5 86. Rg5+ Ke6 87. Kd4 Kf6 88. Rc5 Bd3 89. Rc6+ Kf5 90. f3 Kg5 91. fxe4 1-0
All this took me just over one hour. I will not make a mate announcement
because I have a TV show "Dancing with the Stars" to watch starting
right now.
|
|
| Nov-13-07 | | kb2ct: Yes this requires long distance planning
What I tried to do was open up a file for rook exchanges rather than just have half open files, plus I played Ne1, Nd3 keeping an eye on both c5 and e5. If GMT plays a kneejerk Ph4 like he has in the past, I make good progress. It right now only evaluates about +0.30, but I have only just started with the plan 
click for larger view |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | yskid: Hi everyone,
Just learned about this game and will try to participate randomly. Looking to the position from the Black side I was tempted with 17...Bf6, like this:
Bf6 18. Rbc1 Ne6 19. Na4 Ra7 (19... Kg8 20. Bxf6 Rxf6 21. Ne5) 20.
Bxf6+ (20. Qe3 Rb7 21. Qh6 Qe7) 20... Qxf6 21. Nb6 Be8 22. b4 a4 (22... f4 23.
g4 (23. bxa5 fxg3 24. fxg3 g5 25. Rf1 Raf7 26. a6 Qg7)) 23. b5 Rb7 24. Nxa4
Rxb5 *
yskid |
|
| Nov-13-07 | | Thorsson: <whatthefat: I know you earlier suggested 19.e3 Qb8 as an idea. What would you consider most precise after 19.Rbc1 then? And do you think Black's weaknesses in the queenless positions that follow 19...Qe7 20.Qxe7+ to be to our advantage?> It seems that the Q-swap is OK for us despite the short-term relief it gives Black. I haven't really looked at 19.Rbc1, but I suspect that Black must exchange Queens in this line too. But at this point I concur with others, we need to start looking harder at 17...Bf6. |
|
| Nov-14-07 | | Judah: <isolani>: I had never heard of that word before, so I Googled it: turned out to be a German term. Google's automatic translation of isolani(Schach) on the German Wikipedia contained some interesting statements. I thought I'd share some of its wisdom with y'all, for the benefit of anyone who is not familiar with isolanis: First, the definition: <An <Isolani> or <isolated peasant> refers to a chess farmer who does not own other farmers in the paint on a nearby line more. If he is attacked, he is defended by higher figures.> Not everyone is a fan of Isolanis: The Grand Master Savi Tartakower once coined the phrase: <A Isolani darkens the mood across the chess board> and named the Isolani <a farmer without friends>. On the other hand, Tarrasch defended them, with the powerful declaration: <Who is afraid, with an isolated farmhouse, to play chess, should stop.> Hope this helps. |
|
Nov-14-07
 | | al wazir: <Judah>: Isolano (pl., isolani) = isolated pawn. |
|
| Nov-14-07 | | Judah: Well, yes, I gathered that. Apparently, Isolani is singular, however: it's a German word. Isolano (pl. isolani) is an Italian word that means something else. See http://hemsidor.torget.se/users/n/n... where he argues that Nimzowitsch took his term from the Italian, and that "isolano" <should> be the singular, but in practice, it's not. |
|
| Nov-14-07 | | sentriclecub: Guess black's move. Everyone invited.
Less than 36 hours to leave a message on my forum.
User: sentriclecub Go there and tell what move you think GM Timmerman will play. |
|
| Nov-14-07 | | Ceri: OK, following some basic principles, Black either has to improve his pieces or, at the least, not self-destruct by making them worse. I played around with:
1. d4 f5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 g6 4. c4 Bg7 5. Nc3 O-O 6. Nf3 d6 7. O-O c6
8. Qb3 Na6 9. Rd1 Kh8 10. Qa3 Nc7 11. d5 Bd7 12. Rb1 a5 13. dxc6 bxc6
14. c5 Ne4 15. cxd6 exd6 16. Bf4
d5 17. Be5 Bf6 18. Rbc1 Ne6
19. Na4 Rf7 20. b3 Kg8 21. Qb2 Be8 22. e3 N6g5 23. Nxg5 Bxg5 24. Nc5 Qe7 25. Nd3 Bf6 At any stage in this type of game, Black can shuffle Kg8 - Kh8 and say "try to get me", so it is often a good idea to formulate a plan which works against that Black approach. In the above line I am trying to assess if we have made any progress towards winning the game or if we have only improved our "computer score." Cheers,
Ceri
|
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 782 OF 1784 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
