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Aug-26-08 | | Bob726: Like Honza Ceveranka said, it thinks he would be glad to see a siclian. That's why i'm voting for 1.e5 |
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Aug-26-08
 | | Tabanus: Or 7...Nbd7 first and then Qc7 Opening Explorer, as in Shirov vs Ivanchuk, 2008 0-1
and Shirov vs Anand, 2008 0-1 |
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Aug-26-08 | | lonepsycho: <Tabanus> That seems to be the preferred method of handing the Najdorf Sicilian (B94-B99) in recent years. |
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Aug-26-08
 | | Tabanus: <lonepsycho> I does indeed seem so. Lots of games from 2008. I wander about this move 12.Nd5!? 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Nbd7 8.Qf3 Qc7 9.O-O-O b5 10.Bd3 Bb7 11. Rhe1 Qb6 <12.Nd5> It seems we enter a forced line
12...Qxd4 13.Bxf6 gxf6 14.Bxb5 Qc5 15.Nxf6+ Kd8 16.Nxd7 Qxb5 17.Nxf8 Rxf8 18.Qa3 and ends up here: Opening Explorer is this close to a forced draw?? I don't have a clue :) |
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Aug-26-08
 | | kwgurge: < Open Defence: < kb2ct > well.. as long as the game is interesting with both sides having some chances and we pose some interesting questions on the board, yes...a draw would be fine > 3 - 0 - 1 would be a fine record against the calibre of opponents we have played. 4 - 0 - 0 would be even better :-) |
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Aug-26-08
 | | Ron: I would say the odds of him playing the English Attack, if we go into the Najdorf, is less than 50 percent. It seems as likely as other attacks, for example, he has played 6. h3
A Nickel vs J Siigur, 2007
and 6. Be2
A Nickel vs J Siigur, 2007
and 6. a4
A Nickel vs W Krabbe, 2004 |
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Aug-26-08 | | classF: greeting from GMAN:
<Thanks all for joining the rematch. I never expected so many people registering in a few days. It's overwhelming and shows that the World Team has become a real community over the years. Thanks also to the outstanding promotion by Chessgames.com and Daniel Freeman. Without his efforts we wouldn't have played any "challenging" move. Have a great game! Arno Nickel> Arno Nickel |
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Aug-26-08 | | Waitaka: Thank you <classF> |
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Aug-26-08 | | mmmsplay10: We could try the 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6! lines, with ideas of Bb4 |
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Aug-26-08 | | pyresword: i agree with some other people-i think he wants a sicilian. i'm voting for the french |
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Aug-26-08 | | AnalyzeThis: Personally, I thought the 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 game was interesting against Nickel the first time, and it would be an interesting experience to select one of these systems with the colors reversed. |
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Aug-26-08 | | whatthefat: <Hesam7: First of all there are plenty of slow positional lines (like 6.g3, 6.Be2), besides he can play the Alapin or the closed Sicilian and in both cases the resulting positions have a very different character. I strongly urge people to play 1...e5.>
To begin with, I'm not sure why we need to avoid positions of a strategic nature. I think we've demonstrated already that our depth and breadth of analysis makes us more than capable of handling such positions. And are you genuinely intimating that after 1...e5 there are no slow positional lines?! If he wishes to play into an inferior line of the Sicilian, then I say good. The Closed Sicilian doesn't really pose Black any serious problems these days. Black has learnt how to repel any kingside intentions White might have, and Black now readily equalizes. I can't think of any top-flight GMs who still regularly use the Closed Sicilian. And again after 2.c3, I don't see that Black faces any real problems. In fact, Black is scoring better than White with both 2...d5 and 2...Nf6. |
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Aug-26-08 | | pferd: i agree with some other people-i think he wants a sicilian. i'm voting for ... the sicilian.
I'm all for playing right into his strength - provided we do not play anything weak or drawish. As far as I know the Nadjorf has not been refuted; let's add to the theory. |
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Aug-26-08 | | Boomie: pferd: I'm all for playing right into his strength...> I like this idea, too. GMAN has said he "will try to surprise the Chessgames Team with a completely new approach." Finding out what that means would be a great learning experience for the Team. Last game I wanted to find out what GMT had prepared in the main line of his beloved Dutch. When the Team opted for a little played sideline, I was frustrated. Perhaps that's why it took so long to win although all props to GMT for his tenacity and skill. I doubt that any other opponent will last that long against us. So I hope this game we will follow some line which is relevant to current Super GM play. Hopefully we will find an important improvement. At least let's find out what GMAN's new approach is and learn from that. |
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Aug-27-08 | | izimbra: <TheDestruktor: 200 chessbucks that, if we play 1...c5, he will go for a closed sicilian. Anyone?> Me...Until shown otherwise, I expect that GMAN's new strategy in this game will just be to try and play the strongest moves he can find, and he and his chess engine aren't likely to be intimidated by an "open" or "tactical" game. As a side point, I believe the whole concept that the World Team is stronger in an open or tactical game needs a re-think. It seems to be based on some sort of argument by false analogy, like this: Premise 1: Modern chess engines are better at calculating concrete variations than people. Premise 2: The faster the computer a given chess engine is running on, the better it is at calculating. Premise 3: Inaccuracies in calculation are more likely to be decisive and will be more quickly decisive in open tactical games. Premise 4: The World Team has more computing power available than its GM opponents. Conclusion: The World Team will do best in open tactical games. I'm willing to go along with all the premises above, but I don't believe they actually lead to the conclusion. In order to get to the conclusion, some other hidden premises are required that I believe to be false.
For example:
Hidden Premise 5: The decisive mistakes in the game are likely to be inaccuracies of calculation (that can be seen as such at available engine-based search-ply depths) - whether or not this was true in any of our games, I don't expect it will be true in the current one. Hidden Premise 6: Inaccuracies are at least as likely to happen in open tactical games as in closed positional games. Sub-optimal moves are more likely when there are more pieces on the board to consider and fewer forcing lines, and the team which loses will be the one that makes more sub-optimal moves. So I see open positions are a little less likely to lead to mistakes for both the World Team and our opponents, and hence a bit more likely to be drawn (whether that is desirable or not), whereas open tactical OTB games are less likely to be drawn for reasons given in the premises above. So that is the basis of the false analogy. |
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Aug-27-08 | | Biscoito: I would disagree with premise 2. I would´t say that a faster computer calculates better, it would only calculate more and/or further. |
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Aug-27-08 | | Hesam7: <whatthefat: And are you genuinely intimating that after 1...e5 there are no slow positional lines?!> No. My point is that people are voting for 1...c5 with very specific lines in mind but they might end up with something quite different. |
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Aug-27-08 | | Boomie: <Hesam7: <whatthefat: And are you genuinely intimating that after 1...e5 there are no slow positional lines?!>
No. My point is that people are voting for 1...c5 with very specific lines in mind but they might end up with something quite different.> We may be looking at specific lines but not necessarily because we want them. Rather we are guessing how GMAN will play and working on our guesses. The choice of c5 is natural after two rather agonizing positional struggles. The Team is spoiling for a fight and with e4, GMAN called us out. The Sicilian is our way of accepting the challenge. Anyway that's how I look at it. |
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Aug-27-08 | | john2054: With 2..e5 we hit him right back in the face! It is what many of us wanted to do from the start and by playing it it says that we arent afraid of him! |
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Aug-27-08 | | MindCtrol9: <1...c5> I think is a good choice,and I like Sicilian,also.I like this defense because it is dangerous for anybody.I do believe the Team has studied some of the games of GMAN(Yesterday,I reviewed one of GMAN games,also) |
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Aug-27-08 | | Ceri: On Dragons and things...
Dear friends.
In another forum, Hector Walsh played a team such as ours. The team was smaller, but some of the stalwarts of this team were present in that game. There was a sentiment at that time for a Dragon (partly because I was on the Black team and was a bit of a Dragon specialist). I recommended not playing the Dragon against Hector, but it was chosen anyway. The team then chose a move order whereby my choices were not played at three vital turns and got into a basically lost position. The numbers voting diminished and, through remarkable endeavours, the team managed to find a way of drawing the game. Two lessons for this team:
The Dragon does not hold much promise for Black at cc level. Move order is vital in most Sicilian systems, and that includes the Nadjorf. One wrong choice may lead to months of trying to retrench. A common theme to most Sicilians is that each side tries to commit the other into narrowing their options before the other does. The more successful colour at doing this has all the fun. Cheers,
Ceri |
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Aug-27-08 | | firebrandx: <Biscoito: I would disagree with premise 2. I would´t say that a faster computer calculates better, it would only calculate more and/or further.> Yes and No. If the cores are the same number, but one CPU is has a faster clock rate, then you'd be correct. However, its has been demonstrated that being faster by having more cores does in fact improve the quality of the analysis at same-ply depths. A clear example of this is Rybka 3 on octal-core machines versus quad-core machines. The octal machine is only about 50% faster, yet the quality of its analysis at same-ply depths is better when compared to a quad machine. |
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Aug-27-08 | | john2054: Look despite being deffered 1e4 c5 2 ? e5 does imfer a strong positional understanding, and usually leads to a locked struggle around our strong two central stalwart pawns. We can later back them up with d6 if need be. I will see what you lot decide. Ps try not to think too far ahead at this early stage of the game! |
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Aug-27-08 | | john2054: We should go for 1e4 c5 2? e5 in my opinion. It leads to a strong locked position, controlling the centre of the board and immediately exerts our confidence! But i will see what you other guys think.. |
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Aug-27-08 | | Eurotrash: One of the worlds best correspondance players, Ulf Andersson (currently ranked #2 in the world) plays the sicilian as black. Here is a nice black win in a cc game against none other than GM Timmerman: G Timmerman vs Ulf Andersson, 1994 |
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