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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 5 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Aug-14-02 | | refutor: A refutation of this combination is listed at http://www.gmchess.com/digest/featu... |
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| Dec-20-02 | | Kulla Tierchen: 16. Ne5 seals in the black king. After 17...Qxg6 18. Qc4+ |
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| Oct-09-04 | | sneaky pete: This phoney brilliancy has 2 duplicates here: Alekhine vs Van Mindeno, 1933 and Alekhine vs Van Mindeno, 1933.
Van Mindeno, a minor master in the 1930ies, has nothing to do with it, that's a mistake by Alekhine in My Best Games of Chess 1924-1937. The name <Hoelsder> comes from the 1993 ICE collection by John Donaldson.
A collector apparently came across this name in a notebook in Alekhine's handwriting. Since <Hoelsder> is an absolutely impossible name in Dutch or in any other language, this just proves AA's handwriting is no more to be trusted than his analyses.
The American Chess Bulletin, November 1933, gives <Hulscher>, which may be correct. <Hoelscher> (pronunciation is the same) is possible as well. Unfortunately <refutor>s link is broken, so I can't check which refutation is meant.
Book published a refutation in 1949:
14... f5 15.g6 Qe6 16.Ne5 .. (the brilliancy in another form, as indicated by Alekhine in his notes) 16... Rfe8 17.Rdh1 Kf8 18.Rh8+ Ke7 19.Nxc6+ Kd7! with black advantage.
This seems correct, but why not 16... Qxa2 and wins?
When before posting I googled for information about this game of black,
I found http://www.rochadeuppenheim.de/test... where Dieter Meyer and Karsten Mueller claim 13... Nh7 as another refutation. |
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| Oct-23-04 | | sneaky pete: For Book in my earlier post please read Böök, I just found out how to make an ö. Black in this game may have been the late H.G.J.Hölscher (1916 or 1917-2004). |
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| May-22-05 | | fgh: Very nice miniature. I have seen it mentioned in the book "Chess - clasic games". But I forgot the name of the author. |
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| Sep-14-06 | | amtr: 11...hxg5? 16.Ne5!! |
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| Sep-14-06 | | Aspirador: It seems that 14...f5! is still fine for black with a piece up. 14... Qe6? is the blunder. |
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| Sep-14-06 | | technical draw: The idea of 14..Qe6 is to stop the pawn going to g6. 14...f5 is dangerous because of 15.g6 and after R(d)h1, it's all over. Remember it's Alekhine playing white. |
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| Sep-27-06 | | Aspirador: The point of my 9/14 comment is that after 14...f5! 15.g6 there is 15...Qe6! and black seems to survive with a piece up. After 14...Qe6 15.Rdh1 it was "all over" in the game.
Again, 14...f5! was the right move. |
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| Sep-28-06 | | sneaky pete: See also Alekhine vs Hoelsder, 1933. |
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| Sep-28-06 | | Calli: Interesting. H G J Holscher |
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| Mar-15-07 | | thesonicvision: http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp... |
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| Mar-15-07 | | Archives: Alekhine vs Van Mindeno, 1933 |
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| Mar-15-07 | | sharpnova: this game is getting covered on chessbase this week. they just said "alekhine, 17 moves, philidor" so i'm assuming this is the one |
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| Mar-19-07 | | Dres1: <<Aspirador>The point of my 9/14 comment is that after 14...f5! 15.g6 there is 15...Qe6! and black seems to survive with a piece up. After 14...Qe6 15.Rdh1 it was "all over" in the game. Again, 14...f5! was the right move.> Wouldnt this amount to the same? 14...f5 15.g6 15...Qe6 16.Ne5! 16...dxe5 17.Rh1! I fail to see the difference between this and the game line. |
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Mar-19-07
 | | beatgiant: <Dres1>
A difference is Black can try 14...f5 15. g6 Qe6 16. Ne5 <Rfd8> aiming to run away via 17. Rdh1 Kf8. |
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| May-26-07 | | Whitehat1963: Extraordinary weekend puzzle after 15...f5. Alekhine dismantles a Philidor defense. |
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| May-26-07 | | Bratek: I would not say that Alekhine dismantled
Philidor defence.Read Sneaky Petes comment regarding Alekhine vs Hoelsder,1933.By the way,according to Keres black should play 7...Be7 8.Q:g7 Bf6
9.Q:h8 B:h8 10.B;d8 Bb2 11.B:c7 B:a1 12.B:d6
B:e4 |
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| Jul-14-07 | | sneaky pete: The first publication of this game in the November, 1933 issue of the <Tijdschrift van den Nederlandschen Schaakbond> gives the move order 2... Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 exd4 5.Qxd4 .. etc and the site Amsterdam. The date November 3(?) from Donaldson's <Alekhine in Europe and Asia> is wrong, Alekhine gave an exhibition in Amstelveen that day. He did Amsterdam (several locations) on November 6, 7 and 9. The <Tijdschrift> also reveals the name of the victim, it is - no big surprise there - none other than our old friend NN. |
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| Aug-29-08 | | areknames: Move order is vital here. I had 16.g6, which backfires after 16..Qxg6 17.Ne5 Qxh5 18.Rxh5 dxe5 19.Qc4+ Rf7 20.Rxf5 Rf8 and white certainly isn't winning. It's essential to play the knight to e5 FIRST, as black is then deprived of the option to capture the rook. I had the right idea , but screwed up the move order. |
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| Aug-29-08 | | lost in space: A tricky one
My first impression was, that 16. Qc4 is winning easily: 16...Qxc4 17. g6, but, unfortunetely, after 17... Qf1+ 18. Rxf1 Be8 Black is going to win this game. So back to start:
16. Ne5! (threat: Rh1#). Black is forced to take the ♘e5 Either 16... dxe5 17. g6 Qxg6 (or mate) 18. Qc4+ with mate (latest in 3) Or 16...Qxe5 17. g6 Qf4+ 18 Qe3! (not 18. Kb1?? Qh6!) and Black can not avoid the mate |
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| Aug-29-08 | | dzechiel: White to move (16?). White is down a bishop. "Difficult." I think I see it. I spent a long time trying to get the queen sac on g7 to work (either 16 Qxg7+ or 16 Rh8+ Kf7 17 Qxg7+), but white was just down too much material, and black could start giving it back to thwart any white threats. That's when I spotted
16 g6!
This move is every bit as forcing, as the threat of 17 Rh8# must be addressed. Black must play 16...Qxg6
But now the a2-g8 diagonal is exposed to white's queen. I thought I could play 17 Qc4+, but then I noticed that black simply seals things back up with 17...d5. However, white has another resource! 17 Ne5!!
This move attacks the queen AND covers f7, making the dual threats 18 Nxg6 and 18 Rh8#. And, black cannot play 17...dxe5 because then 18 Qc4+ leads to mate after black interposes on d5, e6 and f7 with 18...Bd5 19 Qxd5+ Qe6 20 Qxe6+ Rf7 21 Rh8#. No, black must try to get compensation for the queen with 17...Qxh5 18 Rxh5 dxe5
It looks like black has a rook, bishop and knight for the queen, which should be more than adequate compensation. Yup, black is winning here. So... time to perform the key move shuffle. I like these moves, but now in a different order! ===
Starting over:
16 Ne5!
This move ALSO threatens 17 Rh8#. Playing 16...g6 doesn't help as 17 Rh8+ Kg7 18 R1h7# is still mate. So the knight must be taken, but how? If 16...Qxe5
then
17 g6!!
and white says, you want my queen? OK, but mate with Rh8 is inevitable. So perhaps black should instead play
16...dxe5
but once again white plays
17 g6!!
Black hasn't time to take the white queen, he must stop 18 Rh8#, so... 17...Qxg6
and now the line we saw above comes true
18 Qc4+ Bd5 19 Qxd5+ Qe6 20 Qxe6+ Rf7 21 Rh8#
I'm sure black resigned sooner, the only question is one what move. Probably after 17 g6. Time to check. |
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| Aug-29-08 | | MiCrooks: I too looked at Qc4+ first but there are a number of defenses including simply d5, so Ne5 is needed to deflect the d-pawn so that g6 then forces mate. Interestingly, just a couple of moves back if Black plays 14...Qe8 rather than Qe6 he is actually winning in this position, though there is still a lot of play left. If 15. Rdh1 then f6 gives Black the needed luft. |
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Aug-29-08
 | | al wazir: My solution was 16. g6, forcing 16...Qxg6 to prevent 17. Rh8#. Then 17. Qc4+ d5 (forced) 18. Rh8+ Kf7 19. Ne5+ Ke6/Kf6 20. Nxg6 dxc4 21. Rxf8 Rxf8 22. Nxf8. The white ♘ eventually escapes and white is up an exchange, give or take a ♙. Alekhine's solution is of course better, but I'm not a GM. |
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| Aug-29-08 | | Strongest Force: I remember this from ICC's database! I even got Nakamura involved with some of those puzzles. Chess is all about setting-up such positions as this and nobody could do it better than Alekhine. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 11.Nd5