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| May-17-10 | | capafan:  <WinKing>
<I have been trying to find a way for white to hold this ending (30.Rxf6) and have not been able to so far(trying all kinds of things). Your right it may take awhile & be somewhat of a grind but how sweet it would be to pull out a win. Besides I thought you liked torturing your opponents with a slow death(well that's the rumor anyway :)). This is going to be fun & the whole team should ready to join in.> Well, depending on my mood and the opponent, I may prefer a quick kill or the long torture. I do think my endgame technique will improve with analyzing this game though. I agree that almost everyone should benefit from examining the position after: 30.Rxf6 Rxb1+
31.Bxb1 Rxf6
32.Qh7+ Kf8
33.Qh8+ Ke7
34.Qxb8 Bxb8
Not a lot of pieces on the board... just keep playing and playing through variations until you fully understand the position. I too hope everyone decides to participate. We should try to avoid the same fate as poor Irina Krush yesterday though. I hope you are enjoying the US Championship ... some, I am sure will knock the quality but few can knock the excitement. |
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| May-17-10 | | WinKing: <capafan:We should try to avoid the same fate as poor Irina Krush yesterday though. I hope you are enjoying the US Championship ... some, I am sure will knock the quality but few can knock the excitement.> Yes what a heart breaker(113 move loss) for Krush yesterday. She deserved to win. Today Nakamura & Onischuk play a Vienna Gambit-exciting stuff! The quality has not been that bad actually. Some good fighting chess in the U.S. Championship so far. We will not suffer the same fate as Irina. Our team prepares very well for every move IMO. |
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May-17-10
 | | sbevan:  <mag: <sbevan:On 30...Bg3+
31.Kd1
If then 31...Bb3+ 32.RxB and Black's a B down,as the QxR is still forced. Black still runs out of checks.So after 31.Kd1 what?
The Black Queen's under attack.
the DSB is under attack (as it's on g3 in this line)
On 31...QxR 32.Rxf6 and White has won a B and a N for a Rook, with Qh7+ still a threat.> 31...Qxb2 32.Rxf6 Bb3+ 33.Bc2 Bxc2+ 33.Qxc2 Qxc2+ 34.Kxc2 Kxf6 and this is probably 0-1>
Correct which is why White does not play 32.Rxf6 as it drops the R. Move 31, white to move.
31. Qh5
and where does the R go?
If 31...Rg5
32.e4
Pretty tough!
That's why I vote for RxR it takes the battle directly to Black who has to play very very accurately to stay out of trouble. |
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May-17-10
| | sbevan: In fact after
30 RxR QxR
31.Qh5
I can't see how Black can win.
I do however see lots of winning options for White.
If not 30..QxR, say 30..NxQ
then simply 31 RxQ and the Black N is for the nonce pinned.
so we know Black will not play 30..NxQ
So any other plausible alternative to 30..QxR?
Frankly I don't see one.
So to me after 30..QxR
31. Qh5 starts effectively to nail the lid on Black's coffin. I could be wrong, may have missed something. Wouldn't be the first or the last time but methinks Black's the one in trouble. |
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| May-17-10 | | galumph: Dan - How about we try to keep the Queens on the board? 30. Rxf6 Rxb1 31. Bxb1 Rxf6 32. Qg2+ Kf8 33. Bd3
click for larger view |
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| May-17-10 | | blue wave: <Sbevan> Do you mean <30.Rxb2 Qxb2 31.Qh4> rather then Qh5? This seems OK. But but black could play 30...Bg3+! 31.Nxg3 Qg3+ 32.Kd1 Nxe4 33.Bxe4 
click for larger viewDo you think this is better? We do have the Bishop pair and two rooks. But white is still hard pressed to win here in fact its almost hopeless isn't it? Or is there some hidden resource here for white? Maybe we could play 34.Rb4 for our next move and pick up blacks a5 pawn? |
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| May-17-10 | | blue wave: Hmmm. Maybe there is a smidgen of hope in this position? I mean two rooks are worth a Queen if handled well. And two bishops if handled well can be a formidible weapon. If the a5 pawn can fall and the two white rooks get linked together white might be OK here? The only problem is that our king is a bit exposed. So I actually kind of like this position and am changing to Rxb2. |
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| May-17-10 | | blue wave: Anyone else up for the challenge? Two rooks versus Queen. And two bishops versus Rook and Bishop? Hopefully we get an extra pawn, but I can't see why not yet? |
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| May-17-10 | | DanLanglois: <sbevan: I can't see how Black can win. methinks Black's the one in trouble.> right. |
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| May-17-10 | | DanLanglois: <galumph: Dan - How about we try to keep the Queens on the board? 30. Rxf6 Rxb1 31. Bxb1 Rxf6 32. Qg2+ Kf8 33. Bd3> I don't see the point of 33. Bd3, not that there's something better, just, what, does the bishop look good there? I suppose it might provoke 33...Bd7. Then what? Just redeploy to 34. Bh7 maybe? Is this better than an immediate 33. Bh7 I wonder? No it's all totally hopeless. |
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| May-17-10 | | capafan: <WinKing>As I noted to <ToK> earlier, a KRB v. KBN endgame is not far from possible. How are you at these endgames? Might make a good study. |
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| May-17-10 | | WinKing: <capafan: <WinKing>As I noted to <ToK> earlier, a KRB v. KBN endgame is not far from possible. How are you at these endgames? Might make a good study.> I am probably better than average but no expert <capafan>. Endgames have always interested me. We may have to 'shakedown'
our team to find out who can help assist us in assessing this endgame. :)
I know there are at least one or two out there who have some expertise. |
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| May-17-10 | | capafan: <Winking>I was just looking at what was available and noticed how difficult the KR v KN endgame would be if we cannot separate K from N. With just a few pawns on the board and most without support an ending such as this is not impossible. Best to plan now. |
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| May-17-10 | | capafan: <WinKing>We must be channeling Irina today. Another marathon...and a KRB v KR. I ** repeat ** we cannot fall into the same trap. Devastating two days in a row for Ms. Krush. Must be what white is preparing for. |
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| May-17-10 | | WinKing: <capafan: <WinKing>We must be channeling Irina today. Another marathon...and a KRB v KR. I ** repeat ** we cannot fall into the same trap. Devastating two days in a row for Ms. Krush. Must be what white is preparing for.> We have one advantage over Ms.Krush. No chance of us getting in the kind of time trouble that she eventually did in both of her last two games. The time factor can be a chess player's worst nightmare if not used judiciously.
I honestly believe she would have won both of those games with more time. |
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| May-17-10 | | capafan: I concur...she looked as if she were going to obtain the proper "Philidor" position today, but never quite got there. Unfortunately, GM norms do not accrue for almost, but pragmatically she proved she can play with the big boys and I am sure the GM norm for her is only a short time away. |
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| May-17-10 | | Artar1: White is between a rock and a hard place, but I don’t think capturing Black’s rook is the best answer. <30.Rxb2 Bg3+ 31.Kd1> 31.Nxg3 Qxg3+ 32.Kd1 Nxe4 33.Bxe4
click for larger viewWhite loses the exchange, and the mobility of the Black queen will prove decisive. <31...Qxb2 32.Qc6>
click for larger viewWhite tries to avoid the loss of material by moving the queen to c6 where it can aid in the defense of the queenside. However, exchanging the rook for a knight doesn't seem to go well for the first player: 32.Rxf6 Bb3+ 33.Bc2 Qb1+ 34.Bc1 Bxc2+ 35.Qxc2 Qxc2+ 36.Kxc2 Kxf6 
click for larger viewWhite will have trouble stopping Black's advancing h-pawn. <32...Bb3+ 33.Bc2 Ng4!> 
click for larger viewBlack attacks the queen and brings the knight into battle where it will go to f2. <34.Qc3 Qb1+> Black exploits the pin on White's light-square bishop. <35.Nc1 Bxc2+ 36.Qxc2 Nf2+ 37.Rxf2 Qxc2+ 38.Kxc2 Bxf2> 
click for larger viewIt looks like a forced sequence, and White's pieces are not well placed to stop the advance of Black's h-pawn. |
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| May-17-10 | | WinKing: Game of the Day from U.S. Championship:
J Kraai vs J Benjamin, 2010
Move 20.Qe5 is a zingerrrrr! Very nice. |
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| May-17-10 | | chesstoplay: <Sbevan> <30.Rxb2 Qxb2 31.Qh4> And you asked, what does Black play.
31. ..... Bb4 seems like a big thorn in our side.
Our Queen is positionally out of play.
I'm not a top guy here, but I'd take Black here given a choice. 
click for larger view |
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| May-18-10 | | blue wave: <Chesstoplay> Yes this does look bad. I'm going back to Rxf6. |
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| May-18-10 | | Artar1: <chesstoplay>
<I'm not a top guy here, but I'd take Black here given a choice.> I'm not either, and in fact we have lots of company because we are being outplayed. I spend at least 20 hours a week on this game. It has taken up all of my chess playing time and study! |
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May-18-10
 | | Phony Benoni: In the variation <30. Rxf6 Rxb1+ 31. Bxb1 Rxf6 32. Qh7+ Kf8 33. Qh8+ Ke7 34. Qxb8 Bxb8>
click for larger view
Is 35.e4 a possibility? Stops 35...h5, 35.e5 is a bit of a threat, the center pawns might yield some counterplay, and at least there's a little more room for our pieces. |
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| May-18-10 | | chesstoplay: < Phony Benoni > OTB 35. e4 seems playable. But since this is cc, I just don't know.
I think you just play B x a5 and fight.
We have an "a" passer, they have an "h" passer.
It looks like we have a center,
but it feels like we are in the center of their field of fire. We've built our house in their kill zone.
We just have to keep trying to put out the fires they start. |
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| May-18-10 | | chesstoplay: < Artar1 > You have become our top guy!! < I spend at least 20 hours a week on this game. > We have some chances, but only if we play with no quit. They can get tired or too busy just like us.
Our best hope lies in that they are just as human as we are. |
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May-18-10
| | sbevan: < blue wave: <Sbevan> Do you mean <30.Rxb2 Qxb2 31.Qh4> rather then Qh5? This seems OK. But but black could play 30...Bg3+! 31.Nxg3 Qg3+ 32.Kd1 Nxe4 33.Bxe4> Correct, typo it should be Qh4
Black cannot play Qg3+ as the Q has retaken the R on b2. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 18...Rxg5