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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 347 OF 707 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Aug-19-14
 | | Ron: I voted for 14.exd5.
I also plan, in my vote announcements, to mention the preferred move of <RandomVisitor>'s Rybka. This might be useful for those who wish to do a post mortem of our games. I request correction from <RandomVisitor> if I get Rybka's preferred move wrong. Preferred move by <RandomVisitor>'s Rybka: 14. exd5. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | hms123: <Zhbugnoimt>
<hms123 do you understand the math vertex oblique point of juncture intersection stuff? I'm 12, so I have no idea what he is talking about. I know what a point of junction, an intersection and a vertex are but I don't get how that is all related to chess.> In all seriousness, I haven't a clue what Young is talking about. I am a lot older than you are. Further, I pride myself on having an excellent vocabulary along with pretty good math skills. Nonetheless, Young's prose is what is sometimes called <word salad>. It is as though he just grabbed a bunch of words, through them all in a bowl, and started tossing them like you would a salad. <chrisowen> is merely having fun. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | Tiggler: <YouRang: ...
I've spent enough time in 14.e5 (which was my original inclination) to be content that it's a nice safe draw, which is nothing to be sneezed at.> The only moves that cause me any concern are 14. e5 Ne4 15. Bc2, when I think we might be in trouble. After 15. Nxe4, I agree: it's a safe way to draw. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | karpkasp: 14. e5 Ne4 15. Bc2 f5 has been analysed as equal. We can prevent 15... f5 by playing <15. Bb3>. 
click for larger viewHere, GMAN may answer with 15... Re8, 15... c6, 15... c5 or even 15... Kh8. Has anyone analysed 15. Bb3? This move isn't mentioned in the AT. |
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Aug-19-14
 | | Willber G: I may be reading the AT wrong but I can find only one line of analysis there for 14.exd5, 15.Nc4, 16.Nxb6. Has more work been done to refute it that I cannot find? Forgive me if I have missed something obvious. |
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Aug-19-14
 | | plang: <* White has 3 pawns that haven't moved and Black has 6 * White has 2 pieces in front of pawns and Black has 3 * White can lift both rooks and Black can lift neither * The White king is safe from back rank mate and Black is still vulnerable I think there are more points for White being better developed than Black.> These are extremely unconventional arguments regarding who is more developed. In particular, the comments about pawns being "developed" are a new one on me. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | DanLanglois: I vote 14. e5
I could make a few edifying remarks about the sort of choice we are making here, but .. I've made some remarks already .. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | cormier: RV ... <Section B1:> d=28 14.e5 Ne4 15.Bc2* *[+0.08] d=33 15.Bc2 f5 16.exf6 Nxf6 17.Nb3 Ne4** 18.Nc5 Nxc5 19.dxc5 Bxc5 20.b4 Bxc2 21.Qxc2 Rxf3 22.Qxc5 Rf7 23.Bg5 b6 24.Qb5 c6 25.Qa4 d4 26.Rad1 Qd6 27.Bxe7 Rxe7 28.Rxe7 Qxe7 29.Qxc6 Rd8 30.Kf1
**<17...Qd6 18.Be3 Ne4
/29 19.Ne5 Nf5 20.Nxg6 Qxg6 21.Nc5 Nxe3 22.Rxe3 Nxf2 ***+0.07/28 23.Bxg6 Nxd1 24.Bxh7+ Kxh7 25.Rxd1 Rae8 26.Ne6 Kg8 27.Rde1 Rf7 28.h4 Rxe6 29.Rxe6 Bxd4+ 30.Kh1 Bxb2 31.Re8+ Kh7 32.R8e7 Rf4 33.Rxc7 Rxh4+ 34.Kg1 b5 35.Rd1 Bxa3 36.Rxd5 a6 37.Kf2 Ra4 38.Ke2> |
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| Aug-19-14 | | DanLanglois: <WinKing: Voted <14.exd5>.
Don't get excited people both moves lead to a draw. Can anyone prove me wrong???> 14.e5 Ne4 15.Bc2 15.Bc2 f5 16.exf6 Nxf6 17.Nb3
happy w/Black so far, here? |
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| Aug-19-14 | | WinKing: <DanLanglois: 14.e5 Ne4 15.Bc2 15.Bc2 f5 16.exf6 Nxf6 17.Nb3
click for larger viewhappy w/Black so far, here?>
== |
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| Aug-19-14 | | DanLanglois: <RV: <Section A2: 13...d5 14.e5> [+0.11] d=30 <13.Ba4 d5 14.e5> Ne4 15.Bc2 f5 16.exf6 Nxf6 and now +0.10/29 17.Nb3 Ne4 18.Nc5 Nxc5 19.dxc5 Bxc5 20.b4 Bxc2 21.Qxc2 Rxf3 22.Qxc5 Rf7 23.Bg5 b6 24.Qb5 c6 25.Qa4 d4 26.Rad1 Qd7 27.Bxe7 Rxe7 28.Rxe7 Qxe7 29.Qxc6 Rd8 30.Kf1 Qf7 31.Qe4 Qa2 32.Qe7> Aug-15-14
hoodrobin: An IQP middlegame is a good challenge!
Aug-15-14 DanLanglois: Section A2 is +0.11 but after etc. etc. 19...Bxc5, White has sacked a pawn for a rather intriguing compensation, superior mobility. I had offered 20. Bg5 setting up a pin, on the view that Black might react with ...h6 and ...g5, a permanent concession, loosening his king, also w/these queens and rooks still on the board, and White's king is safe. So, it's an unbalanced situation with some kind of net pluses.
The alternative is easily summarized as IQP (IQP w/ draw offer is my fear, here). |
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| Aug-19-14 | | DPLeo: <plang: ... the comments about pawns being "developed" are a new one on me.> I thought that would be controversial because I've heard some people cry "don't move the pawn because it creates a weakness" or "don't move the pawn because it can't be moved back". What kind of a game would one have if pawns were not developed? I think it's more weak to be vulnerable to back rank mate. If pawn moves are well supported they don't have to "move back". Even without the comments about the number of pawns moved there are still 3 other points for our development being better. And again, it probably doesn't matter because the position is equal anyway. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | DanLanglois: 17... Ne4 18. Nc5 Nxc5 19. dxc5 Bxc5
Here, I posted 20. Bg5, and this (page 329):
<20. Bg5 Bxc2 21. Qxc2 Bd6 22. Qb3 Rb8 23. Re223...h6 24. Bh4 g5 25. Bg3
Black's ...h6 ...g5 may count as 'seemed like a good idea at the time'. 25...Bxg3 26. fxg3
White is still down a pawn, and has doubled pawns. But can contemplate doubling rooks on the e-file. This is admittedly more unbalanced then 'won', but White is better (While cheekily having tossed a pawn for mobility). If you look closer, at the diagram, Black surely has better than this. If this could be reached w/best play, I'd say there's no point in looking for better. Black improvements?
Note, that White has ideas: Re6.
26...Nf5 27. Re6 Rf6 28. Rxf6 Rxf6 29. Rxd5+ Qf7
30. Qd3 Rf8 31. Kg2
31...b6 32. Rae1 c5 33. Re5
what does it take to get an actually winnable position? Really a lot, what have we got to work with? But here, I might feel pessimistic for saying so..> |
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| Aug-19-14 | | optimal play: ed or e5
I can't really decide?
OTB I would instinctively play e5
But I’m not sure it’s quite as good as exd5
Already the team appears to be split
Looks like another vote which will go down to the wire! |
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| Aug-19-14 | | RandomVisitor: <YouRang>See my section B1 for new ideas (b) and (c) in the 17...Qd6 line we were discussing earlier. |
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Aug-19-14
| | Ron: Another post for the benefit of post-mortem researchers: Thus far this team deviated from <Rybka>'s preferred one time: the team played 4. d3, Rybka preferred 4. 0-0. |
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Aug-19-14
 | | AylerKupp: <<Hugin> Sorry for breaking the bubble but
23...Qf5 24.Qc1 Ra5 25.Bc3 Rxb5 26.g4 Qc8 27.Qf4 Rb3** is much better.Black is much better....> After 27.Qf4:
click for larger viewPer Komodo 7a, Black's best, 27...Rb3 as you suggested, is evaluated at [-0.47], d=28 after 27...Rb3 28.Bb4 h6 29.Ngf7 Qe6 30.Bxe7 Qxe7 31.g5 hxg5 32.Qxg5 Rxh3 33.Kg2 Qe6 34.Rh1 Bxd4 35.Rxh3 Bxe5 36.Nxe5 Qxe5 37.Qxe5 Rxe5 38.Rb1 b6 39.Rb4 Kf7 40.Rxa4 Ke6 41.Re3 g5 42.Ra7 Rxe3 43.fxe3 c5 44.Rg7 Kf5 45.Rb7 Ke4 46.Rxb6 Ng4 47.a4 c4 48.Rc6 Nxe3+ 49.Kf2 Kd4 50.a5 c3 51.a6 c2 52.a7 Nc4 53.a8Q c1Q 54.Qf8 So, yes, 27...Rb3 is better than Komodo's 27...Rf8 ([-0.33]), but I'll let you decide whether indeed it's "much" better. It certainly looks like it is, increasing Black's control of the q-side. Continue breaking bubbles! Another example of the need to check the engine's indicated "best" line by sliding forward. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | jepflast: RandomVisitor's new idea is interesting:
14. e5 Ne4 15. Bc2 f5 16. exf6 Nxf6 17. Nb3 Qd6 <18. a4> a5 19. Be3 
click for larger view Who wants to help me investigate Black's many options here? http://www.jepflast.com/chesstree/n... |
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| Aug-19-14 | | WinKing: <jepflast: Who wants to help me investigate Black's many options here?> Where would you like me to start? |
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| Aug-19-14 | | WinKing: I am looking at 19...Bxc2 20.Qxc2 <jepflast>. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | Noflaps: I like centralized rooks on open files. I like taking away the pawn support for an enemy outpost. I like puppies and long walks in the country and jazz piano. And, oh yes, I like bringing the vote closer to avoid a bandwagon rush to a premature conclusion. Therefore, I vote 14 exd5. I am perfectly willing to change my mind at the drop of a mustard-slathered corndog. It's early. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | jepflast: <WinKing> Okay great! I'll try Bh5. |
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| Aug-19-14 | | YouRang: <jepflast><WinKing> I'll have a look at <RV>'s 14. e5 Ne4 15. Bc2 f5 16. exf6 Nxf6 17. Nb3 Qd6 <18. Ng5> line: <(c) +0.09/26 18.Ng5 Rae8 19.Bd2 Bxc2 20.Qxc2 Nc6 21.Rxe8 Rxe8 22.Be3 Ne4 23.Nxe4 Rxe4 24.Nd2 Re8 25.Nf3 a5 26.Rc1 h6 27.Qd3 Re7 28.Nd2 Qe6 29.Rd1 Re8 30.Nf3 Qe4 31.Qb5 Rf8 32.Re1 Rxf3 33.gxf3> |
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| Aug-20-14 | | lost in space: o.k, 13...d5
so do not have to inform you that after 13...h6 the game is also close to 0,00. after 14. Bc2 already shown and after 14. b4 here the final result of the analyze: 13...h6 14. b4 d5 15. e4 Ne4 16. Bb2 a5 17. b5 f5 18. exf6 Rxf6 19. Bc2 Nxd2 20. Qxd2 a4 21. Ne5 Bxc2 22. Qxc2 This position is +0,02 with d=24.
Method als always: Sliding analyze. And I also do not need to put that on the AT. |
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| Aug-20-14 | | lost in space: <<Ron:> Another post for the benefit of post-mortem researchers:
Thus far this team deviated from <Rybka>'s preferred one time: the team played 4. d3, Rybka preferred 4. 0-0.> Maybe also relevant for the post mortem: Thus far user LIS deviated 12 times from the team vote (from 13 options). The team and LIS preferred both 12. a3 - exactly the move user ajile gives a ? |
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