| Oct-02-11 | | Albion 1959: Surely 154.Kh3? loses and that Kh5! is the best move for white. It would have allowed the game to continue for another 100+ plus moves before one them fell asleep or died at the board? |
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| Nov-13-11 | | goodevans: <Albion 1959> I agree that 154 Kh5 would have been a better move, but I'm not sure 154 Kh3 loses. I can see a clear win for black after 154 Kh3 Rg1 155 Rb2. If the B moves then white can check, whilst 155 ... Rg6 is answered by 156 Rb4. |
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| Nov-14-11 | | goodevans: * "I <can't> see a clear win for black after ..." |
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Dec-31-11
 | | Domdaniel: 18...Ke8 seems to be a novelty. Everything up to that has been played before, but 'theory' has 18...Rb4. Funny how Rb4 enters the frame again, a mere 138 moves later. |
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Dec-31-11
| | Domdaniel: 154.<White moves and claims draw under 50-move rule> also looks strong. It's likely they were down to increment time and no longer keeping an accurate score, as technically required by the rules. But where the game is being recorded anyway - by an arbiter or electronically - the 50-move rule should apply. All the players have to do is mark the scoresheet to record that a move was made. |
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| Dec-31-11 | | Shams: <Dom> Can White claim a draw on 154, or 155? I've never been sure how to count to fifty here. |
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Dec-31-11
| | Domdaniel: <Shams> Me neither, actually. By analogy with 3-fold repetition, I suppose the draw could be claimed when you were about to make a move that was 50 full moves (ie, by both players) since the last pawn move or capture. |
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Dec-31-11
 | | FSR: The thing that distinguishes grandmasters from ordinary masters is that <they know how to claim the damned draw!> Ivanchuk vs Kamsky, 2009 Inform the damn arbiter that you intend to play (say) 156.Rg5 and that you're claiming a draw under the 50-move rule. |
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| Dec-31-11 | | Shams: <FSR> It really is funny that we don't know this. It just hasn't come up in the forty or so tournament games I've played. But I'm still a shade confused, please bear with me: The last capture was B104, so after B105 Black has made one move without a capture, after B114 he has made ten moves without a capture, and after B154 he has made fifty moves without a capture. So why can't White claim the draw prior to his 155th move? |
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Dec-31-11
| | FSR: <Shams> The last capture was on Black's 104th move. Moves 105-154 for both sides constitute a full 50 moves without a piece being captured or a pawn being moved. So Black (had he so desired) could have claimed the draw before playing his 154th move. White can claim the draw before playing his 155th move, or before playing his 156th move, etc. - as long as he does so before getting mated, and before any piece is captured. |
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| Dec-31-11 | | Shams: <FSR> Roger that, thanks. Poor Barthel had his choice of draws, but was having too much fun dancing I guess. |
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Dec-31-11
| | Domdaniel: < It just hasn't come up in the forty or so tournament games I've played.> I think I've played around 700 of the things. It *still* hasn't come up. But we non-masters tend to lose more quickly when worse, or concede the draw when better, or just agree a draw anyway. I recall one game where, after 70 moves, I had R+N and two connected pawns; my opponent had RBN and no pawns. For a while we both tried to win, then agreed to draw. A pair of motivated GMs would've squeezed another 100 moves out of it. |
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Dec-31-11
| | FSR: Note that the aforementioned Ivanchuk-Kamsky game features the more difficult to count draw where White plays the last capture or pawn move. That was on 64W. 64B through 114W = 50 moves for both sides. So White's first opportunity to claim the draw (which he exercised) was before playing his 114th move. |
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May-11-13
| | FSR: Weird. Peter Heine Nielsen and Carsten Hansen in their book <The Sicilian Accelerated Dragon> call this line a forced draw - not unreasonably, I think. But in CG.com's database, Black scores 3/3. Opening Explorer |
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Kibitzing
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sac: 10...Nxe3
