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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jan-15-04 | | nateinstein: found the mate in about 20 secs, but still a nice puzzle. |
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| Jan-15-04 | | DWINS: This puzzle is flawed.
After 16.Nf6+ Black should reply with Nxf6 because after 17.Qxf6 he can avoid the mate by playing e5. Of course, White has the much better game but a stronger line from the beginning position is 16.Qxg7+ Nxg7
17.Nf6+ Kh8 18.Nxd7 when White is completely winning. |
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| Jan-15-04 | | Benjamin Lau: Hmmm, that might be right, but how about 16. Nf6+ Nxf6 17. Qxf6 e5 18. Rg2 g6 19. Qh4 with the idea of f6 and Qg6# later? I think that white will (maybe) not mate, but obtain a clear winning advantage by getting the initiative and maybe some kingside pawns. |
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Jan-15-04
 | | Honza Cervenka: <Benjamin Lau> Do you mean 16.Nf6+ Nxf6 17.Qxf6 e5 18.Rg1 g6 19.Qh4? I am afraid that then 19...Rxc2 would have led to a strong counter-attack. Better for white seems to be 19.0-0-0 Qc6 20.c3 with strong attack, for example 20...Rfd8 21.fxg6 fxg6 22.Rxg6+ hxg6 23.Rg1 etc. |
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| Jan-15-04 | | Benjamin Lau: You're perfectly right, I forgot that white has left a pawn en prise and has no shelter for the king. Thanks for the correction, castling does work much better. Is it true then that this puzzle is not a clear win (even though white has the advantage)? |
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Jan-15-04
| | Honza Cervenka: I think that there is a clear win, but not after Owen's 16.Nf6+. As DWINS suggests, white has much stronger continuation there: 16.Qxg7+ Nxg7 17.Nf6+ Kh8 18.Nxd7 Rfd8 19.Rg1 Rxd7 20.Bxg7+ Kg8 21.Bh6+ Kh8 22.0-0-0 looks quite convincing. |
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| Jan-15-04 | | crafty: 16...♘xf6 17. ♕xf6 e5 18. ♖g1 g6 19. O-O-O ♕c6 20. c3  (eval 1.26; depth 16 ply; 1000M nodes) |
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| Jan-15-04 | | crafty: 16. ♕xg7+ ♘xg7 17. ♘f6+ ♔h8 18. ♘xd7 ♖xc2 19. ♘xf8  (eval 3.41; depth 17 ply; 1000M nodes) |
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| Jan-15-04 | | Orcinus: Brilliant pawn moves by Owen. Black prevents both bishops from being bad, yet white pawns attacks them to open the g file and a1-h8 diagnol. |
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| Jan-15-04 | | kevin86: My try was the very pedestrian 16 ♕xg7+ ♘xg7 17 ♘f6+ wins back the queen with a pawn profit-and the attack isn't over yet |
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| Jan-15-04 | | Dick Brain: It seems incredible to me that Burn played such a weak defense against 16. Nf6+. |
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| Jan-15-04 | | pilot: I too would have played 16.Qxg7+ Picking up a pawn and establishing a knight DEEP in enemy territory is much better. Black had a much better defense against 16.Nf6+ than gxf6 |
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| May-28-08 | | JimmyVermeer: 16...gxf6 was the worst move.
17...Kh8 also sped up matters. Another alternate ending would be 17 Rg1+ Bg3 18 Rxg3+ Ng7 19 Rxg7+ Kh8 20 Rg8+ Rxg8 21 Qxf6+ Rg7 22 Qxg7# |
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| Jun-09-11 | | SamAtoms1980: 16.Nf6+! gxf6 17.Rg1+ Kh8 18.Qxf6+!! Nxf6 19.Bxf6#!!! Burn burned.
Or if 16....Nxf6 17.Qxf6!!! gxf6 18.Rg1+ Kh8 19.Bxf6#! |
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Jun-09-11
 | | Phony Benoni: The diagonal's not long enough; you need to make it longer! The other question is whether 17.Qxf6 also works, though it's not as forcing as 17.Rg1+. |
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| Jun-09-11 | | rhickma4: At first I looked at 16.Qxg7+, followed by 17.Nf6+ regaing the Q.
This probably wins.
Then I thought of turning it around.
16.Nf6+ Nxf6 (16...gxf6 17.Rg1+ followed by Qxf6+ and bxf6++) 17.Qxf6 e5 18.Rg1 g6 19.Rd1 Rc6 20.f4 looks like it is better
But I think there must be another wrinkle in there. |
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| Jun-09-11 | | abuzic: 14.Bxd7 may deserve a ?, but 14...Qxd7 deserves a ?? (14...Nxd7! and black is more than OK.) |
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| Jun-09-11 | | sevenseaman: I missed this one. I went in with Q leading.
16. Qxg7+ Nxg7 17. Nf6+ Kh8 18. Nxd7 Rg8 19. Rg1 e5 20. Nxe5 Bxe5
21. Bxe5 Rce8 22. Bc3 h6 23. 0-0-0
I'd like to think White has the winning edge but alas! The crisp combination eluded me by a whisker. |
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| Jun-09-11 | | VincentL: "Medium".
I see 16. Nf6+. Black must capture the knight, otherwise his queen will be lost. (a) 16.....Nxf6 17. Qxf6! Then 17.....gxf6 18. Bxf6 and 19. Rg1+ Bg3 20. Rxg3 mate. (b) 16.....gxf6 17, Qxf6! and the idea is the same. 17.....Nxf6 18. Bxf6 and we have the
same position as in line (a).
Let´s check. |
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| Jun-09-11 | | Dr. J: As you can see from the comments from 2004, it turns out that <16 Nf6+ is NOT the best move>!! I repeat crafty's analysis:
<crafty: 16.Nf6+ Nxf6 17. Qxf6 e5 18. Rg1 g6 19. O-O-O Qc6 20. c3 (eval 1.26; depth 16 ply; 1000M nodes)> whereas
<crafty: 16. Qxg7+ Nxg7 17. Nf6+ Kh8 18. Nxd7 Rxc2 19. Nxf8 (eval 3.41; depth 17 ply; 1000M nodes)> Thus !6 Qxg7+ is correct! |
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| Jun-09-11 | | VincentL: No.
My move order fails, on account of 18....Bg3! 19. Rg1 Qd6! |
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Jun-09-11
 | | Jimfromprovidence: This one looks incredibly straightforward. It's 16 Qxg7+ Nxg7 17 Nf6+ Kh8 18 Nxd7.
click for larger viewWhite's up two pawns and has two black pieces en prise. There is one tricky part if black decides to follow with 18..Rfd8. 
click for larger view White answers with 19 Rg1. Problem solved.
click for larger view |
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| Jun-09-11 | | Dr. J: So <pilot> and <sevenseaman>, you were right all along! |
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| Jun-09-11 | | M.Hassan: "Medium" White to play 16.?
White is a pawn up
And by a Queen sac, he will be two pawns up:
16.Qxg7+ Nxg7
17.Nf6+ Kh8
18.Nxd7 Rxc2
19.Nxf8 Bxf8
20.Bxg7+ Bxg7
21.Rd1
White has the upper hand and wins. Time to check
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Not like the game!.Queen sac should have occured later |
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| Jun-09-11 | | M.Hassan: It appears from the comments of some kibitzers that I am right too and 16.Nf6 is not the best move |
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Kibitzing
sac: 16.Nf6+