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Apr-02-06
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Can we be certain that this is a real game and not one of Sam's imaginative compositions? |
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Apr-02-06
 | | Sneaky: That's exactly what I was thinking. This game is too good to be true!! If it is a composition then God bless him for composing it, but in my heart I want to believe that Loyd even in a blitz game could weave a mating net with incredible precision. He may not have known much about openings or pawn structure, but when it came to the subject of forced checkmates I can't think of a more prominent genius. |
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| Apr-02-06 | | Jim Bartle: There's a third possibility. He played part of the game, with a different ending. Then he started looking at it afterward, saw a fantastic end, and "composed" that. |
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Apr-02-06
 | | al wazir: <dakgootje: btw i didnt know Loyd was the creator of those 4x4 sliding puzzles (which are easy to be solved if you know what youve got to get as end-picture)> In fact, Sam Loyd's '15' puzzle has no solution: it is impossible to arrange the 15 tiles in order. It's a parity property, analogous to the way a ♗ always lands on a square of the same color as the one it started on, and a ♘ always lands on a square of the opposite color. |
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| Apr-02-06 | | Cogano: Good late evening to you <An Englishman> (it's 11:17PM EST for me!) & I sincerely hope this finds you well. I would think it is, or else that bit of info would not have been printed as fact in <"100 Chess Gems"/ Francis Percival Wenman (Cadogan Books London)>. What with possibilities of law suits etc. for misleading the public & perpetuating a myth as fact, I would think that <Mr. Wenman> as well as the publisher tried their utmost best to ensure the authenticity of this fact. It says in the book, after Loyd made his 20th move:
<"The great problem composer now produces a forced mate in seven in actual play."> If it makes you or anyone else feel better, then try to find other sources that discuss this game, his puzzles &/or him personally to verify or contest this fact. I hope this helps. Take very good care & have a great day. :) |
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| Apr-03-06 | | whatthefat: <yataturk>
It's a forced mate, what are you talking about? |
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| Apr-03-06 | | jackmandoo: I think jim is right, the game looks feesable, but not in blitz, I think the ending was composed but the origional win might have been bland. |
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| Apr-03-06 | | dakgootje: <al wazir> Yes okay, maybe his 15-tiles puzzle didnt have a solution (dont know as ive never tried it), but i was talking to the quite common re-assemble the picture-puzzles, and normally they do have a solution ;-) ps: it seems i didnt add in my previous post that i meant the picture-puzzles instead of the original '15 puzzle' by Sam Loyd, so this might have caused some unintended confusion, sorry about it =P |
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| Apr-03-06 | | EmperorAtahualpa: Whatever the truth is whether this game was fabricated or not, it is beautiful! |
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| Apr-04-06 | | Cogano: Amen to that <Emperor>! Amen to that! :) Your wisdom never ceases to amaze & astound me! Take very good care & I'll talk to you soon buddy. :) Cheers! :) |
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Oct-16-07
 | | Richard Taylor: I have had book of his problems for years (it was my father's) - haven't ever looked at one of them. This game very droll |
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Oct-16-07
 | | Peligroso Patzer: Here is a Sam Loyd problem that I like. It is very relevant to practical play. White to move and DRAW:
click for larger view |
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Oct-16-07
| | Peligroso Patzer: Here is the solution to the problem in my previous post: 1.♗d7! h2
[or 1...♘f3+ 2.♔e2 h2 (Also insufficient to win for Black would be: 2...♘g1+ 3.♔e3 h2 4.♗c6+ ♔g3 5.♗b7 ♘h3 6.♗c6 ♘f4 7.♗h1 ♘g2+ 8.♔e2=) 3.♗c6=] 2.♗c6+ ♔g1 3.♗h1 ♔xh1
[No better for Black is: 3...♘f5 4.♗c6 ♘g3 5.♗b7 ♘h5 6.♗c6 ♘f4 7.♗h1=] 4.♔f2!
[The key point here is to move the White King to a square that keeps the Black King in the corner AND that is of the SAME color as the square on which the Black Knight stands. This assures that whenever the Black Knight is attacking either the f1- or f2-square, it will be WITH CHECK, allowing the White King to move to the other of those squares (keeping the Black King trapped in the corner blocking its own pawn). Losing would be: 4.♔f1?? ♘g6 5.♔f2 ♘f4 6.♔f1 ♘d3  .] |
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| Oct-16-07 | | gandu: Nice puzzle, <Peligroso Patzer>.
That's a position that the computers really struggle to evaluate correctly! |
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Oct-16-07
 | | sleepyirv: Very enjoyable king hunt today. Trying to escape a mating net set by Sam Lloyd is a fool's errand... It's what the man does! |
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| Oct-16-07 | | psmith: It would be interesting to know exactly at what point White is losing in this game. |
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| Oct-16-07 | | TheaN: Back to the Excelsior, if I may:
I'd choose the g-pawn. It more unpractical than the b-pawn, looking at all the diagonals. The g-pawn cannot even promote on a diagonal with the Black king, has to move 5 times to promote, thus can only mate by a regular move, which seems impossible. First sight might have been differently, though: now I'm looking at the position with the solution, which is different, of course. |
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| Oct-16-07 | | kevin86: So sorry for Mr. Fitzgerald: he could not puzzle his way out of the claws of the puzzle-master! In the endgame puzzle-it is imperitive that white to allow the knight to check him but ner allow the knight the chance of robbing him of the f1 or f2 square. After the move indicated the knight must move to a square in the opposite of the white king. Since the knight can never gain a tempo,the game is drawn. If however,♔f1?? ♘f3 ♔f2 ♘d2 and the king cannot go to f1 and must free the black monarch. I always liked the problem and principal:the superior side is a knight and pawn ahead,but cannot free his king from imprisonment in the corner. |
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| Oct-16-07 | | drpoundsign: variation on smothered-or Legal's-mate??! |
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| Oct-16-07 | | lopium: I just laugh!!! Could it have been more violent? So funny! |
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Oct-18-07
| | Richard Taylor: <Peligroso Patzer> great problem, thanks - and useful ideas - I must haul out my Sam Lloyd and look at him - he was famous for maths and other puzzles. |
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| Sep-08-14 | | zanzibar: I have some more info on the source of this game - which I believe originally was published in <The American Chess Journal> by Loyd (was there an earlier newspaper account?). This was an early chess magazine with an interesting history. Loyd was writing for it, especially after it was acquired by Dr. C.C. Moore. I don't have the reference here (will update later), but Loyd cites the game as coming from an actual tournament - though I'm fairly sure he didn't call it a blitz tournament (where does that some from?). The original score is terrible, btw, many ambiguous moves and typos must be corrected to get the actual game. After 20.Kd5 it is indeed a M-7. The original publication didn't give a continuation, instead it left it as a puzzle. According to a newspaper account, two witnesses (CC Moore + ?) attest to Loyd declaring it a forced mate OTB during the game. White's play is a bit sloppy early on (e.g. after 6...Qe7 7.Bxf7 and not 7.Nxf7), but Black's is worst (12...b5?). Such sloppiness could suggest to somebody that the game was a blitz game, but I'd still like to see the reference. |
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Sep-09-14
 | | offramp: As far as I'm aware the King's Gambit is the only opening where white gives up both a pawn and the initiative by move 3. |
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Oct-29-14
 | | sachistu: <zanzibar> The reference you cited was the American Chess Journal, 1877, p142. And as you mentioned, the score stopped after 20.Kd5 then saying "Black mates in 7". The finish (mate) as given here is apparently someone's analysis/solution and appears in some online chess databases. The ACJ does not give a venue, saying only "recent". Clearly, it could not have been 1898. As far as the term 'blitz' is concened, this is another common unfounded addition attached to certain online database headers. However, it WAS most likely played in New York. |
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| May-29-23 | | whiteshark: <The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald> sung by Gordon Lightfoot (RIP): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vS... According to rumors Lloyd's made a big haul here. |
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sac: 12...b5