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Schaya Niemzowitsch vs Neumann
Riga (1899), Riga RUE
King's Gambit: Accepted. Muzio Gambit Sarratt Defense (C37)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-15-16  User not found: That is very clever. Drawing the queen to c7 first, I woulda missed that.
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: White has two pawns for two knights.

Black threatens dxe5.

The black knight stops 16.e6#. Hence, 16.Qf5+ Nxf5 17.e6#.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Willber G: Black should have played 13...Qxg5.
Aug-15-16  zb2cr: Nice one. It took me over a minute to see it.
Aug-15-16  erixn: I suppose 13...Qxg5 should be answered by 14.Qxf7+ Kd8 15.Qc7+ Ke8 16.Rae1!, when Bxe5? allows 17.Qf7+ with mate to follow, and after dxe5 17.h4! the black Q gets in trouble: Qg3 18.Re3! or Qg6 18.Nf4!
Premium Chessgames Member
  steinitzfan: It's a Monday puzzle but it's the kind that gives a beginner a little push. There's some very plausible clearance sacrifices that don't work. Only the diversion sac works.
Premium Chessgames Member
  gawain: Harder (for me) than most Mondays. Mate is crying out to be delivered with e6, so the knight must first be taken or lured away. 16 Qf5+ will do the trick.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Bubo bubo: The Nd4 defends against e6#, so it has be lured away: 16.Qf5+ with mate after either 16...Nxf5 17.e6# or 16...Ne6 17.Qxe6#.
Aug-15-16  YouRang: Quite easy Monday 16.?

click for larger view

The first thing I noticed was black's immobile king, which means any check could be mate.

The second thing I noticed is that I have a couple ways to give check (e6+ and Qf5+), and black has just one piece (Nd4) trying valiantly to stand in the way of both of these attacks.

Alas, stopping one <16.Qf5 Nxf5> allows the other <17.e6#>.

For a moment, I had considered taking the N with 16.Qxd4, but then 16...Qb6! pins my Q and, more importantly, gives the black K an escape square at c7, and white's wonderful attack vanishes.

Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Wow! White gives up the queen and mates with a pawn! Amazing!
Aug-15-16  YetAnotherAmateur: 16. Qf5+ does the job beautifully, because black has only 2 legal responses:

A) 16. ... Nxf5 17. e6#

B) 16. ... Ne6 17. Qxe6#

Aug-15-16  BOSTER: <AlicesKnigt 16 e6 would mate, but>. Not any but.
Aug-15-16 sack the queen
push the pawn.
Aug-15-16  drollere: wow ... well most tedious is

16. e6+ Nxe6
17. Bxe6+ Kxe6
18. Qf5+ Ke8
19. Qf7#

also Qf5+ Nxf5, e6#

also Bxg8, Rxg8, Qf7#


Premium Chessgames Member
  Gregor Samsa Mendel: <drollere>--After 16 e6+ Nxe6 17 Bxe6+ black can escape by playing Ke8.
Aug-15-16  beenthere240: Is this the same Neumann that appeared on Seinfeld?
Aug-16-16  unferth: <Gregor Samsa Mendel: <drollere>--After 16 e6+ Nxe6 17 Bxe6+ black can escape by playing Ke8.> after Ke8 18 Bxc8 black is helpless against the threat of Rae1.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gregor Samsa Mendel: <unferth>--While black will eventually lose in this line, I don't see it leading to a quick mate.

Aug-16-16  sachman19: Incredible. Mind Boggling!!!
Aug-16-16  unferth: <Gregor Samsa Mendel: <unferth>--While black will eventually lose in this line, I don't see it leading to a quick mate.>

though I haven't checked it with a program, I don't think there's any way for black to avoid mate in four or five at most: 18 Bxc8 Rxc8 19 Rae1+ Ne7 (or Qe7) 20 Qf7++; 18 Bxc8 Qxc8 19 Rae1+ Kd7 20 Re7+ Nxe7 21 Qxe7++; 18 ... Be5 19 Qf8++; 18 Ne7 (or Qe7) 19 Qf7++ etc.

if black has a better try I sure don't see it.

Aug-16-16  BOSTER: This is a big question: why 16. e6+ does not work?
Aug-17-16  unferth: I believe it does--not quite as quickly and elegantly as Qf5, but equally lethally.
May-12-17  User not found: 12.Bxd6! absolutely finishes Black because of the threat of mate on f7

click for larger view

At best if the piece is recaptured with.. 12..cxB. 13. Qxf7+ ..kd8 ..14.Qxg7 ..Ne2+ and IF 15.kh1 ..Ng3+ 16.hxN and then Qh6 saves the h8 rook..

click for larger view

Premium Chessgames Member
  laskereshevsky: in the decades already found at least 2-3 times this position in exercise diagrams (like move and win or found the mate in 2-3-4 moves stuffs)

click for larger view

and easily see the combination ♕f5+ - ♘xf5 - ♙e6#.....

Now im discovering its a Nimzo's father game

OK then, great

Premium Chessgames Member
  gambitfan: I have just put this game in my colLection DUBIOUS GAMES.

My question is: should such a game belong to the data bank ?

What is the level of both players ? Who are they ?

As far as I understood, in any game, at least one of the players must be a chess master, GM, IM, WGM, WIM, or at the least FIDE master.

If there is only one, it is a simultaneous, an exhinition, a blindfold...

Both players in this game seen unknown.

I can see quite a few question marks in Stockfish comments.

The only reason might have been a confusion with the family name Nimzowitsch...

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