< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jul-08-07|| ||TrueBlue: I actually got the main idea. Of course, there are too many lines to consider, but I did see how to mate after Nf4 exf4. The line played doesn't seem to be much more different, black's attack is way to strong to be stopped.|
|Jul-08-07|| ||4i4mitko: no this was realy hard i was thinking
Qh4 but it turns out White has defense
which i didn't look at
|Jul-08-07|| ||bogo78: <Mostly average> Thanks for your comment. The line i was considering though was the one when the ♘ was not captured. Mainly along the lines of what <tallin. has in his first diagram. Only i have used the Q on b2 to later defend the f3 pawn and the R on d4 do defend g4. I don't see yet any mate but i am convinced there must be some winning move.|
|Jul-08-07|| ||not yet a patzer: Hello Everybody. What a great ending! Timman cooly gives up both rooks and then dances and weaves with his king, surviving the heavy artillery, comfortable and confident with mate in hand.|
Yeah! Ya' gotta love chess!
|Jul-08-07|| ||Eggman: <<Yeah! Ya' gotta love chess!>>|
|Jul-08-07|| ||vortex2639: I was with most others, I liked Qh4, never saw the Qe5 defense, if I had then I would have liked to think I would have seen that Nf4 was the move. I looked at Nf4 for a while, an easy win if white doesn't take but I didn't see a win with exf4, which was an easier win! ha ha, good puzzle.|
|Jul-08-07|| ||fm avari viraf: White is threatening d7 forking the Rooks but his King seems to be in jeopardy. Hence, the first 3 moves that come to my mind is 25...f5, Nf4 & Qh4 but I immediately discarded ...f5 & thought it has to be the next 2 alternatives. First, I tried with 25...Qh4 but 26.Qe5 & back to g3 defending the mate. So my choice was 25...Nf4 where White is in deep trouble defending his King.|
|Jul-08-07|| ||vangogh228: If
26. exf4 Qh4 Then
27. Rd3 appears to be White's only follow. But, then if
27... Qxh3 Then
28. Rxf3 Qxg4+
Hope that makes sense.
|Jul-08-07|| ||willyfly: what I really seem to be missing here is 29 ♕xg7+.|
What is the point of that move?
|Jul-08-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <willyfly: what I really seem to be missing here is 29 Qxg7+.
What is the point of that move?>
1) Delay the mate in the lower right corner
2) Hope for black's mistake after Bb2 - moving the black king to the h-file would let white checkmate the black in short order.
|Jul-08-07|| ||neilmcmurdo: Without looking...
... my analysis (without moving pieces) suggests
25 ... R*c1 26. Q*c1 Nf4 27. Kf1 Qh4 28. Ke1 Q*h3 and black is even on material with an initiative...
No doubt totally wrong!
|Jul-08-07|| ||willyfly: an act of desperation then - sorta what I thought - thanks <MAJ>|
|Jul-08-07|| ||soberknight: Two exclamation points!! I totally missed the whole idea, thinking that the queen and bishop were sitting out of play and could not stop Qh4 on the king side.|
|Jul-08-07|| ||neilmcmurdo: Indeed totally wrong! This is a fiendish puzzle. Hadn't noticed that in the 25 ... R*c1 line 26. R*c1 Nf4 27. e*f4 Qh4 28. d7 Q*h3 29. d*e8=Q+ Kh7 30. Q*g7+!! is a forced mate for white!|
25. Nf4! is of course best.
|Jul-08-07|| ||al wazir: One last word on 25...Qh4 26. Qe5: Black has a decent try in 26...Nd4. Then 27. Rxc8 (27. Qh2? Ne2+ wins the exchange; 27. d7 Rxe5 28. dxc8=Q+ 29. Kh7, and black threatens 29...Qh3 and 30...Qxg4+) Ne2+ 28. Kf1 Rxc8 29. d7 Rd8 30. Qe7, and now black must give up his ♖ for the d-♙ (30...Qxh3+ 31. Ke1 and 30...Ng3+ 31. Ke1 lead nowhere).|
|Jul-08-07|| ||neilmcmurdo: Fritz 9 suggests best play of
25 .. Nf4 26 e*f4 Qh4 27. Rd3 Q*h3 28. R*f3 R*c1+ 29. Q*c1 Q*f3
with a simple win on material for black (white cannot avoid losing at least two further pawns here).
|Jul-08-07|| ||Eggman: <<willyfly: what I really seem to be missing here is 29 Qxg7+. What is the point of that move?>>|
Perhaps White, in calculating all this a few moves back, had missed that 32...Qxf2+ leads to mate in 2?
|Jul-08-07|| ||kevin86: The difficulty range on the puzzle says "insane". I propose that black take his queen rook and eat it! If that's not insane,I don't know what it is. |
The sac-ing of two rooks reminds me of the famous Dutch Defense game by Alekhine vs Bogoliobov (sp)
|Jul-08-07|| ||Marmot PFL: Found this one much more quickly than the usual Sunday (which I miss altogether more often than not). Timman had it harder as he had to see the combination when he played 23...exf3 otherwise the passed d pawn wins.|
|Jul-08-07|| ||RandomVisitor: After 24.Rxd6 (instead of the losing 24.cxd6) the game is equal:|
1: Vladimir Kovacevic - Jan Timman, Bugojno 1984
click for larger view
Analysis by Rybka 2.3.2a mp:
1. = (0.00): 24...Qg5 25.g3 bxc5 26.h4 Qh5 27.Qc3 c4 28.Bb2 f6 29.Qb4 Qg4 30.Qb7 Rc7 31.Qd5
2. = (0.00): 24...bxc5 25.Qe5 fxg2 26.Kxg2 Red8 27.Rxd8+ Rxd8 28.Bxc5 Qb7+ 29.e4 Qxb3 30.Bxa7 f6 31.Rc3
3. = (0.00): 24...Nxc5 25.Bxc5 bxc5 26.Rd2 fxg2 27.Qc3 a6 28.Qc4 Qf6 29.Rd3 Re5 30.Rcd1 Rce8 31.Rd6
4. = (0.05): 24...Rxc5 25.Rxc5 Qxd6 26.Rc8 Qd7 27.Rxe8+ Qxe8 28.Qd1 fxg2 29.Qd5 Qc8 30.Kxg2 Kh7 31.h4
|Jul-09-07|| ||LIFE Master AJ: What a cool game! (The two-rook sack is simply awesome.) |
I have been a fan of Timman, (http://www.fide.com/ratings/card.ph...); for a long time. I remember when Timman was easily in the "Top Ten" players in the world, but it has been at least twenty years ago. (See http://db.chessmetrics.com/CM2/Play... for more details.)
|Jul-09-07|| ||Crowaholic: I had 25. ..Nf4 26. Rxc8 Nxh3+ 27. Kf1 Rxc8 with Black advantage. Or 25. ..Nf4 26. exf4 Qh4 with the threat of Qxh3 and Qg2#|
Didn't consider 27. Kg2 with 27. ..Qh4! and the incredible threat of (e.g.)
28. Rxe8+ Kh7 29. Qb2 Nf4+ 30. Kg1 Ne2+ 31. Qxe2 Qxg4+! 32. Kf1 fxe2+ 33. Ke1 exd1=Q#
though. At least I found some of the core ideas.
|Jul-09-07|| ||patzer2: Black infiltrates the weakened castled position with the recent Sunday puzzle solution 25...Nf4!! for a decisive King side attack.|
|Jul-09-07|| ||Marmot PFL: It was surprising that Timman did not pick this game as one of the 80 games in his book "Selected Games - Chess the Adventurous way".|
|Jul-15-07|| ||Eggman: <<I remember when Timman was easily in the "Top Ten" players in the world, but it has been at least twenty years ago.>>|
Whatever Chessmetrics might say, Timman was ranked #9 15 years ago (FIDE's July 1992 list), and was of course a (losing) candidates finalist in January of 1993. In fact, he was World #3 as recently as January 1990. So it has not been at least 20 years.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·