|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jun-21-07 | | Hakoon: Wouldn't 15.Bh6 work too? |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | jmi: This one sure was easy! Bf6 was practically staring in my face. :) |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | Skylark: This was pretty damn easy for a Thursday puzzle. 15. ... Kg8 obviously loses to 16. Qg5 g6 17. Qh6, and.. well, the game line was equally simple. Also first. |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | soberknight: Wow! I solved the entire line! Of course, for a Thursday puzzle it wasn't too hard, but I needed a few minutes to confirm that exf6 was better than Qxf6. |
|
Jun-21-07
 | | Moondoll: This is the first puzzle I've gotten all week! Hooray for Thursday. |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | ahmadov: Good one! I also found the solution... |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | mkrk17: This was too easy for a Thursday. I got Bf6, and then black has no defence against Ng5. If for e.g, 1. Bf6 Rg8 2.Ng5 h6 ?? 3. Qxh6#
Or. 1.Bf6 gxf6 2.Qxf6+ Kg8 3. Ng5
then white brings his queen to h6 to hit at h7.
|
|
| Jun-21-07 | | Tactic101: A very nice tactical idea. Bf6!! is a great clearance sac. Amazing that black can't do anything about it! The fact of the matter is that exf6 stops Rg7, which would have defended the h7 square. Very instructive. <Hakoon> I can's see Bh6 working. After gxh6, white could play Qxh6 and Ng5, but Rg8 and Rg7 by black stops the mating threat. That's why the f6 pawn is so valuable to the attack: it prevents Rg7. |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | somitra: Shredder says the culprit is 14... Qxc3?. The engine suggests 14...f4 with 15.Ra2 Qxc3 to follow and gives white an advantage of +0.58. On 14...Qxc3, the engine starts giving white a huge +5.29 advantage with the following line:
15.Bf6 gxf6 16.exf6 Qxf3 17.gxf3 Rg8+
In the actual game, after 16... Rg8 white announces mate in 5 as follows: 17.Ng5 Rg7 18.Qh6 Rxg5 19.Qxg5 Qg3 20.hxg3 Ne5 21.Qg7# |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | willyfly: I'm going to try <dzechiel>'s diary method.
Okey. The first thing I notice is that White's ♕ ♗ and ♘ are well placed for a quick mate if I can find the right combo. None of Black's pieces are in position to defend and that seems to be the theme of this puzzle. The fortress is abandoned. After fooling around with a few moves I found 15 ♗f6... After 15...gxf6 then 16 ♕xf6+ ♔g8 17 ♘g5 and two more ♕ moves is #. None of Black's pieces can come to the rescue. If 15...h6 then 16 ♕xh6+ the ♙g7 is pinned then ♔g8 17 ♕xg7# Now let's have a look ;-) hrummmph!!! |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | Gilmoy: White is down 1 pawn. Black threatens Qxc2, and has a double at d4. White has the e5/Bg5 pattern, suggesting the Bf6 sac. Look for supporting elements: - White's Q is ideally posted to follow up at f6.
- White's N has good flow through g5, for a double at h7. - Black's Kh8 is ideally vulnerable to Qf6+.
- Black's KR can't defend both g7 and h7.
- The other 3 Rs are far from the action (in both space and time). They're likely out of the picture. Apparently, we want the B to vacate g5. Not [A] 15.Bd2? Qxc2 16.Ng5 f4. So we need more pizzazz. [B] 15.Bf6 (thematic).
[B1] gxf6 (ironically, the Q doesn't go here after all -- controlling g7 is deadlier) 16.exf6 Rg8 17.Ng5 mates: Rxg5 18.Qxg5, or Rg7 18.fxg7+ Kxg7 19.Qxh7+. [B2] h6 16.Qxh6+ (g7 is pinned) Kg8 17.Qxg7#.
[B3] Rg8 16.Ng5.
[B4] f4 (to answer 16.Ng5 with Qxc2 and 17..Qg6) 16.Qh6! (double-pins g7) Rg8 17.Ng5 mate fork at f7/h7. Looks like White got in the e5-push, which booted out an Nf6 (or prevented it in the first place). That led to a 3-on-0 around Black's K -- sometimes a win by force, due to tactical shots. |
|
Jun-21-07
 | | Sneaky: <mkrk17: This was too easy for a Thursday.> These puzzles always seem to be too easy when you don't actually solve them. Let's look more closely: <I got Bf6, and then black has no defence against Ng5.> True enough, but what variations did you look at? < 1.Bf6 gxf6 2.Qxf6+ Kg8 3. Ng5 then white brings his queen to h6 to hit at h7.> Ahhh! You fell for the trap. Bzzzzzt. Wrong answer. The problem with the 1.Bf6 gxf6 2.Qxf6+ Kg8 3. Ng5 line is that Black has a defense: ...f4!! allowing ...Bf5 or ...Qxc2 as necessary to cover h7. I think the game is about equal at that point, since White can probably force a perpetual, but White definitely lets the winning chances slip away with that approach. In my opinion that's what makes this a Thursday puzzle--there is an obvious thematic sacrifice on f6 but then you have to see how to follow it up. If you saw the wisdom of exf6, then "Bravo, you solved a Thursday!" If you intended Qxf6? then you get the rasberry "Bzzzzzt try again next week!" |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <Sneaky: The problem with the 1.Bf6 gxf6 2.Qxf6+ Kg8 3. Ng5 line is that Black has a defense: ...f4!! allowing ...Bf5 or ...Qxc2 as necessary to cover h7. I think the game is about equal at that point, since White can probably force a perpetual> Here's your perpetual after f4: Ne4 (dxe4 or queen moves) and white queen shuttles between f6 and g5. I missed f4 myself, too, and considered exf6 and Qxf6 equivalent. Not sure what I would play in a real game. Drats. |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | willyfly: yeh - I missed f4 too until <Sneaky> pointed it out. I saw exf6 but rejected it because it allowed the ♖ to get into the act. (must look deeper) |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | Manic: Good spot <Sneaky>, I had that exact line. I could see that Black's queen could defend with 1.Bf6 gxf6 2.Qxf6+ Kg8 3. Ng5 Qxc2 but thought that after that white's rooks can kick her off the crucial diagonal and then white can force mate. However, after 3...f4! there is no mate. Such a subtle move allows black to defend h7. I'm really confused as to why <mkrk17> posted that line if he did look at the actual solution. Of course, it is most likely that he did not, but usually if you say you got the puzzle you would usually check first. |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | MostlyAverageJoe: By the way, Hiarcs tells me that the most resistance that the black can put up is to sac the queen. Any departure from the following line is quite a bit worse than following it: 15. Bf6 gxf6 16. exf6 Qxf3 17. gxf3 f4 18. c3 (+5.67) No wonder the black opted for a quick mate to end the suffering ... |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | dzechiel: I'm coming to the party a little late tonight, just got in from watching the Angels beat up on the Astros in Anaheim. White to move. First glance makes it look like an assault on the king or queen as the rest of black's pieces seem placed out of harm's way. Note that 15 Bd2 *almost* wins the black queen (it can flee to b2 or capture on c2). This move does vacate the g5 square for use by the white knight in some variations. I have been looking at moving the bishop now for several minutes. As mentioned above, I looked at 15 Bd2, but it looked like black has lots of running room. Then I started looking at 15 Bh6, but it's not forcing enough. Lastly, I have been looking at 15 Bf6, and I think this move has some merit. First, 15 Bf6 threatens 16 Ng5 and pushing 16...h6 doesn't do any good, as the g-pawn is pinned, so it seems that black must play 15...gxf6. White responds 16 exf6 with the threat of 17 Ng5. Let's say black plays 16...Rg8 17 Ng5 threatening mate on h7 If 17...Rxg5 18 Qxg5 and you can't stop mate on g7. If 17...Rg7 18 fxg7+ Kxg7 19 Qxh7+ Kf6 and this doesn't look at all healthy for black (20 Qf7+ Kxg5 21 Qg7+ Kh5 22 f4 seems like a killer to me). I think this is it, time to check. |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | jahhaj: I have to agree pretty easy for Thursday. I guess saccing a piece on an unoccupied square is unusual, but moving the bishop to make way for the knight was an obvious idea, and Bf6 was an obvious way to increase the pressure on the castled king. |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | Mottian2: Gosh! I didn't see the strong move 17... f4 after 16. Qxf6+ Kg8 17. Ng5, I only saw 17... Qxc2 with the idea 18... f4, which probably fails after 18. f4! :) |
|
Jun-21-07
 | | tarek1: Interesting. Sneaky found the defence f4 against gxf6 Qxf6 but what's wrong with playing it NOW ? 15.Bf6 f4 16.Ng5 Bf5 or
15.Bf6 f4 16.Qg5 Rg8
I don't see a clear winning line right now... |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <tarek1: Interesting. Sneaky found the defence f4 against gxf6 Qxf6 but what's wrong with playing it NOW ? 15.Bf6 f4 16.Ng5 Bf5 or 15.Bf6 f4 16.Qg5 Rg8 I don't see a clear winning line right now> Try: 15. Bf6 f4 16. Qh6! 
click for larger viewThe pawn is pinned, and queen threatens Qxg7#. Black cannot take the bishop or Qxf8#. Therefore: 16 ... Rg8 17. Ng5: 
click for larger viewand now, depending on black's move, white mates with either Qxh7# or Nxf7# |
|
Jun-21-07
| | tarek1: <MostlyAverageJoe> Good catch :)
I had seen Qh6 in some other variations but forgot about it in this one. |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | Gilmoy: <MAJ:> Ironically, I worked out my [B4] line in homage to you :) Your ongoing puzzle difficulty test using program churn times taught me to be much more thorough in looking for defensive desperados. I've lost numerous games online because I missed a defensive resource that rendered my attack unsound, so it's been good practice. I had [B1]-[B3] worked out, and I envisioned somebody chiding somebody :) for missing Black's cool Q comeback theme. Gave me an excuse to use White's even cooler double-pin. Pretty little picture! |
|
Jun-21-07
| | tarek1: <Gilmoy> I just noticed you had given the answer earlier in your [B4] line but, being at work, I skipped through. |
|
| Jun-21-07 | | greensfield: Bishop SAC <15.Bf6> stood out as a candidate move. Then after 15...gxf6 I hastly played 16.Qxf6 and ended up going nowhere. Missed the move 16.exf6 |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 15.Bf6