| Sep-12-04 | | jose manuel: has anybody analized this game? i have and i dont see a reason why the king can't retrieve back to e8 on move 11 if it does,after queen takesb4 i would play Qg5 with some nasty treats the best response for white 0-0 bhishoph3 only way to defend g3 and white will be down a rook i mean maybe i didn't analized deeper,i know greco was a great player and all but could somebody tell me if im right or wrong? |
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| Sep-12-04 | | clocked: <jose manuel> your idea of attack is good, but white doesn't need to castle into it. Look at 13.Nd2 instead |
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| Sep-12-04 | | jose manuel: ok but Qxg2 would follow and what would you do next?0-0-0 is best to defend the rook but white is still down a pawn,of course i would have to analized deeper to have a better idea of how the game would end |
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| Sep-12-04 | | clocked: better to look at black's king, and the out of play rooks than at the pawn count |
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| Sep-12-04 | | Bucky Katt: Black's mistake is on move eleven. Instead of 11...Kg8 disconnecting his rooks, as pointed out by clocked; Black should have played 11...Ke6. Play might continue 12. Qxb4 c5 13. Qa4 Qb6. |
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| Mar-02-05 | | InspiredByMorphy: although 11. ...Ke8 or 11. ...Ke6 would have been a better continuation it still doesent save blacks game. Blacks King stuck in the center will become a big hamper in the middle of whites active development. Besides that what can black attack? Blacks mistake was earlier with the greedy 7. ...Nxe4 instead of 7. ...Bxd2 8.Nxd2 O-O and if 9.e5 d5 gives black a good game . |
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| Mar-02-05 | | soberknight: Black could have equalized with 12...Qf8 (threatens Qxf2+), forcing White to exchange queens. The resulting endgame favors black because White has a weak isolated d-pawn. White can improve on his ninth move with Qb3 or O-O. |
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| Mar-02-05 | | InspiredByMorphy: <soberknight> I agree 12. ...Qf8 was a better continuation, but I dont think black favors from whites isolated d pawn. If that is the only weakness white has, I think it is better than the position of blacks king and the out of play king rook. A sample continuation could be 12. ...Qf8 13.Qxf8+ Kxf8 14.Nc3 Nxc3 15.bxc3 and the d pawn is now protected. White can also then castle either side next move. |
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| Mar-02-05 | | soberknight: <InspiredByMorphy> On further analysis, I agree with you. 13 Qxf8+ Kxf8 14 Nc3 Nxc3 (...Nf6 15 Nb5 c6 16 Nd6 Ke7 17 Nxc8 Raxc8 18 b4!) 15 bxc3 Bf5 16 g4 Be4 17 f3 Bg6 18 O-O Re8 19 f4, or 15...b6 16 O-O a5 17 a4 Ba6 18 Rfe1 with a clear advantage for White in all lines, mainly because of his strong outpost knight on e5. |
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| Mar-03-05 | | Cyphelium: <IBM & soberknight> After 12.- ♕f8 13. ♕xf8+ ♔xf8 14. ♘c3 ♘f6 15. ♘b5 c6 (15.- ♘e8!?) 16. ♘d6 ♔e7 17. ♘xc8+, black can play 17.- ♖hxc8 instead. Then 18. b4 is bad because of 18. -a5, which gives black an edge, since white will now get a weak a-pawn in addition to the d-pawn. I don't think black has to fear any other 18th move either: it looks even. (18. ♖e1 ♔d6 19. ♘f7+ ♔d7 20. ♘e5+ ♔d6 anyone?) The idea ♘b5-d6xc8 looks dubious to me. Not only does it help black develop his pieces, but also one of white's main trumphs disappear: the knight versus the bishop. As could be seen in <soberknight's> analysis, after 15. ♘c3 ♘xc3?, white gets an edge because the knight is unchallenged on e5. Likewise, after 15.- ♘f6, white could play something simple (16.0-0!?) and let black worry about that outpost on e5. If he tries to exchange it with ♘d7, white can play ♘xd7 and then manoveure the other knight to e5. Also white will get his rooks out faster. Perhaps he could claim a slight edge there? |
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| Mar-03-05 | | InspiredByMorphy: <Cyphelium> In the line 12. ...Qf8 13.Qxf8+ Kxf8 14.Nc3 Nf6 is an improvement leaving whites d pawn isolated and protecting the knight, however it does allow white to keep the initiative and achieve superior development. You and soberknight have undoubtedly found a better continuation for black than in the game though. It would have kept the game going with not much more than a positional advantage for white. |
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| Mar-03-05 | | soberknight: As usual, you are correct, and Nb5-d6-c8 gives up much of White's advantage. I looked through the other games in the database with 7...Nxe4?! They all continued 8 Bxf7+ Kxf7 9 Qb3+ d5 10 Ne5+. Now I think 10...Ke6 is best. 11 Qxb4 and now 11...Qf8 makes more sense because 12 Qxf8 Rxf8 13 O-O Nf6! 14 Re1 Kd6 15 Nc3 c6 and Black's position, although unpleasant, is better than after 10...Kg8. However, Glenn Flear in 2002 played 11...c5, got a decent counterattack, and drew. It's surprising that anyone would want to put his king in the center in an even-material middlegame, but Flear apparently had some serious guts. |
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| Sep-26-07 | | wolfmaster: 16...Ba6?? Ooooooh dear... |
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| Aug-10-08 | | just a kid: 16...Ba6???Only a idiot can play that move. |
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| Jul-09-18 | | jenspetersson: <wolfmaster> and <just a kid>: My guess is that Black realizes that the rook (and game...) is lost anyhow and thinks "Why not test if White misses the simple mate?!" or even better: "Why not let White finish me of with a fast mate, since the game is lost anyway?". |
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| Jul-26-19 | | Chesgambit: Beginner bludners |
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Kibitzing
