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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
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| Apr-03-09 | | mworld: a lot of coordination that I totally missed as I instinctively went for the pawn grab :) |
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| Apr-03-09 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: <TomOhio:> wrote <cheeseplayer: 22. Bh8! end of story! if accepts then 23.Qf8 # [snip] > Sorry, but 22.Bh8? is a mistake refuted by 22...Qe7, as pointed out previously by other kibitzers. If white exchanges queens he has nothing for his material deficit. Anything else, and the bishop on h8 is hanging. <Hy0gA:> wrote <22. Bb2 can be possbile?> 22...Qe7 is also the problem with 22.Bb2 because white's queen can't get to f6. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | goodevans: <YouRang: I found 22.Nxh7 easily enough. Free pawn (22...Kxh7?? 23.Qf8 ~#). I also saw black's only defense is 22...Qe8 ...> I think quite a lot of folk missed 22 ... Ne7, whereas I think it is actually black's best try. Moreover, many of those that did consider it thought 23 Qf4 was the right response. In fact I think best play from both sides is
22 Nxh7 Ne7 23 Be5 Kxh7 24 Qxe7 Qxe5
See my earlier posts and those of <agb2002> and <johnlspouge>. |
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Apr-03-09
 | | Jimfromprovidence: It looks like that pawn grab, 19...Qxb5?, was the losing move, allowing white a tempo to continue with 20 Ng5, below, seeing Nxh7. 
click for larger view Better for black was 19...Qe6, likely forcing a queen trade and diffusing white's attack. 
click for larger view |
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| Apr-03-09 | | YouRang: <goodevans: <YouRang: I found 22.Nxh7 easily enough. Free pawn (22...Kxh7?? 23.Qf8 ~#). I also saw black's only defense is 22...Qe8 ...>
I think quite a lot of folk missed 22 ... Ne7, whereas I think it is actually black's best try. Moreover, many of those that did consider it thought 23 Qf4 was the right response. In fact I think best play from both sides is
22 Nxh7 Ne7 23 Be5 Kxh7 24 Qxe7 Qxe5 >
Indeed, I completely overlooked 22...Ne7.
However, by cheating (using a computer), I see that white might do better than 23.Be5: 23.Qc7! [diagram] threatens 24.Qd8+ with mate to follow.
click for larger view
What can black do?
If 23...Nc6 (guarding d8), then white has 24.Qf4! (threat Qh6 with mate to follow), and 24...Ne7 is a step behind in stopping mate: 25.Qh6 Nf5 26.Qf8+ Kxh7 27.Qh8#. If 23...Kxh7, then 24.Qc4! (threat Qh4+ with mate to follow). Black can stop this with 24...Nf5, but then 25.Qxf7+ Kh6 26.g4! (threat: Qf8#), and black has no good way to stop it. If 23...Qd1 (to block check at h5), then 24.Qxf7+ Kh6 25.Qg7+ Kh5 26.Qh7+ Kg4 27.Qh3+ Kf3 28.Qg2+ Kg4 29.Qe4+ Kh5 30.Qh4# If 23...g5 (to open g6 escape square) 24.Qd8+ Kxh7 25.Qh8+ Kg6 26.g4! (sealing off f5 and h5) Nf5 27.Bb2! (threat: Qh5#) f6 28.Qxf6 Kh7 29.Qh8+ Kg6 30.Qh5# Congratulations to anyone who saw all these lines back at move 22. :-) |
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| Apr-03-09 | | TomOhio: <CHESSTTCAMPS> Allowed the assumption of the first response move... you're right, but I still like the ending to the lesser line. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | goodevans: <YouRang> 23 Qc7! is an excellent move. Suddenly this is taking on the proportions of a Sunday puzzle. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | TheIrateTurk: Is it me or is the puzzle starting position very very very very unconventional? The way the pieces are all bunched together like that? Looked odd to me! |
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| Apr-03-09 | | YouRang: <goodevans: <YouRang> 23 Qc7! is an excellent move. Suddenly this is taking on the proportions of a Sunday puzzle.> Yes, but I think the main point here is that white didn't have to find 23.Qc7. I think your line <22 Nxh7 Ne7 23 Be5 Kxh7 24 Qxe7 Qxe5> is still an easy win for white. It might be more challenging if black's B and R were not so mobility challenged. But as it is, I think white can put the queen on the 8th rank and bring out the LSB and start having fun while black tries to find time to get his pieces out of heck. :-) |
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| Apr-03-09 | | oxcheck: At first I went for some crazy ideas like 21. Ne6, but this does no harm. Then I tried how to sneak behind black defences to exploit the unprotected 8 rank. No effect. For a while I was pondering 22. Qd5, but 22...Qe8 proves it useless. Later I sticked to the White Bishop, which is just rooting to be moved behind to clear the path for Queen. But... Nope. And when I got stuck there, right idea came out of the nowhere. 22. Nxh7 and I stopped thinking, cause I suddenly figured all mating patterns in a blink of an eye. Funny that it took me so long, as my first thought was to move this Knight. If I were in a time scramble this might have been costly. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: <TomOhio:> wrote <Allowed the assumption of the first response move... you're right, but I still like the ending to the lesser line.> Understood. Yes that line was fun!
Regarding the line 22.Nxh7 Nxe7,
<YouRang> wrote
<[snip]I see that white might do better than 23.Be5: 23.Qc7! [diagram] threatens 24.Qd8+ with mate to follow. > Nice find - I got to your diagram in my original analysis, but after 23....Kxh7, all I could see was 24.Qd8? Ng8. I completely missed 24.Qc4. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | BoBBY FISCHEr: I thought in 22.Bh8. In my opinion this quiet move, have no defense for black. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | YouRang: <BoBBY FISCHEr: I thought in 22.Bh8. In my opinion this quiet move, have no defense for black.> Interesting try, but it looks like black can simply force a queen exchange with 22...Qe7 (either exchange queens or lose your bishop). After this black appears to be winning. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | UnsoundHero: After 14...Qe6 15 Rd1 looks better than 15 Bh6. If 15 Bh6 Re8 16 Qc3 f6 17 Ng5 Qe5 18 Bd5+ Re6, and white is forced to liquidate his attacking position by making piece trades. After the trades, the Pd7 goes to e6, which helps black develop the rest of his queenside. After 15 Rd1, black should try 15...d5, baiting a pawn to try and catch up in development. If then 16 Rxd5 b6 17 Qc4 Ba6 18 b5 Na5 19 Qd3 Bb7, black is finally fully developed. White can try to improve with 16 b5 instead of 16 Rxd5. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | WhiteRook48: 22. Nxf7? or 22. Nxh7! was what I was thinking, due to 22...Kxh7?? 23. Qf8 |
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| Apr-03-09 | | ricardolopez: I think 22.Bb2 is enough too. Isn't it? |
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| Apr-03-09 | | Arbiter58: <ricardolopez: I think 22.Bb2 is enough too. Isn't it?> Unfortunately not. Was thinking that also for a while, but after 22...Qe7 I don't see how white continues its attack. After exchange of queens I would prefer actually black and the alternative 23. Qf4 d5 seems to allow black some development with Be6 later on. |
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| Apr-03-09 | | Milesdei: I got this after thinking long and hard after 22.Nxh7. Like TomOhio, I chose 24. Bd3 to confound the knight, which has to move to f5 after 25.Qh6. After BxN Black can delay the inevitable with a few spite checks but White wins easily despite the loss of tempo. |
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Apr-03-09
 | | gawain: That was too much for me. I saw 22 Nxh7 (and how it wins if the knight is taken) but could not manage to find the winning continuation after 22...Qe8. 23 Qf4 is a quiet move. |
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Apr-04-09
| | gawain: This whole game was quite interesting. Even using a computer engine I cannot see where Black actually makes any mistake. Refusing the exchange sacrifice does not seem to leave him any better off. |
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| Apr-04-09 | | computer chess guy: 19. .. ♕xb5 was wrong (.. ♕e6 was the only move). |
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Apr-04-09
| | gawain: Yes <computer chess guy> you are absolutely right about that. 19...Qe6 is the only move. It still appears that White has an edge after 20 Qf4 even with Black's best play. But 19...Qxb5 was definitely a mistake. |
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| Apr-06-09 | | patzer2: For the Friday April 3, 2009 puzzle solution, White plays the demolition 22. Nxh7! to decisively weaken Black's King position. |
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| Sep-10-09 | | whiteshark: Yet again the neverending story of someone who belives his King is safe even without the Dragon bishop. |
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Feb-07-23
 | | plang: A new position was already reached after 7..e5. Krasenkov was critical of 8..e4?! recommending 8..d6 instead. He also thought that 10..Qe7 would have been an improvement over his 10..Nxc3?!. 13 Qxc5!? reminds me of the exchange sacrifice line in the Exchange variation of the Gruenfeld Defense. Black lost quickly after 19..Qxb5?; necessary was 19..Qe6 20 Qxe6..fxe 21 bxc..bxc 22 Be5 with a clearly better endgame for White. The finale was very pretty. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 13.Qxc5