| May-25-05 | | Bobak Zahmat: Knigh on the rim is grim! After playing Kh6 and then Kg4 the knight is in big problem. The move 11. ... Nc5?? is a disaster. It is quite a rare that a game can be over within 13 moves on this high level. |
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| Jun-01-05 | | millert: Is my game really so bad after 11 h6, 12 Bd2 g5. Fritz doesn't seem to think so. It seems to me that White gets a strong attack with Bb4 and possibly c5 but his h pawn may become a liability if he tries 0-0. If he doesn't 0-0 then black may play through the center. Black's position is unorthodox for sure. |
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| Jun-01-05 | | Shams: <millert> I assume you evaluated 11...h6 12.Bd2 g5 13.Nxg5 Nxf2 14.Kxf2 hxg5 15.Bxg5 in black's favor, then? too complicated for me to say, but I don't see that the black king would be much safer than the white one. |
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| Jun-01-05 | | Shams: what surprises me is that FRITZ evidently felt my line was good for black, too. seems to me he could hang on to the extra pawn. I must be missing something pretty basic. |
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| Jun-03-05 | | Shams: will somebody please weigh in on this game before I go nuts? |
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Jun-03-05
 | | WannaBe: <Shams> What position do you want us to look at? the 11. ... h6? or how this game ends? |
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| Jun-03-05 | | Shams: my line after miller's suggested 11...h6 12.Bd2 g5, if you please. |
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| Jun-03-05 | | Shams: thanks, but my line was 13.Nxg5 Nxf2 14.Kxf2 hxg5 15.Bxg5, or whatever your engine likes after 13.Nxg5. I think it's good for white, but obviously it's not, and I want to know why. :) |
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Jun-03-05
| | WannaBe: Try that again. :-)
13. ♘xg5 ♘xf2
14. ♔xf2 hxg5
15. ♗xg5 ♗f6
16. ♗e3 ♕a5
17. dxc6 bxc6
18. ♖f1 ♗g7
19. ♔g1 ♗h6  1.62/14 |
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| Jun-03-05 | | Shams: at what point did you turn it over to the engine? in other words, how does your engine meet 13.Nxg5? I doubt it follows my line or Mr. Miller would have found that. my last question, I promise. thanks a million. |
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Jun-03-05
| | WannaBe: <Shams> Not quite sure what you meant, so I'll just tell you what I did... I downloaded the pgn file for this game. I substituted moves 11. ... black to move 15. Bxg5 as you posted previously. I then set Shredder 9 on deep positional analysis of 60 minutes, with 8 move depth. If I screwed up again, please let me know. I promise I'll get it right the 3rd time. :-) |
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| Jun-03-05 | | Shams: <WannaBe> well, moves 11B - 12B were Mr. Miller's suggestion. 13W - 15W was the line I added on -- although in truth, I spent far less time looking at it then I have spent talking about it with you. ;) basically, I saw a chance for white to win a pawn, and then I saw a potential intermezzo for black, and that's the line I wrote down. now, at the end of that line I thought white had a plus. I'm glad to see Shredder 9 agrees with me. So, you have answered one of my questions. the problem is that the player who had black in this game said that Fritz saw nothing wrong with 11...h6 12.Bd2 g5. Since you give white as comfortably ahead three moves later in my line, this means black must have an improvement that I missed. So, first, if you please, find the point where S9 disagrees with me. It could be that after my first new move, 13.Nxg5, S9 likes a different move than the one I gave. then tell me the line he gives, with eval, and also the problem with my line. got it? for example, I give 13.Nxg5 Nxf2. Shredder thinks Nxf2 is bad and gives a different move -- say, hxg5. Tell me that line (after 13...hxg5) and also Shredder's line after my move, which he considers inferior, of 13...Nxf2. thanks!!! one of these days I'll buy my own engine. Also, it's possible S9 thinks ALL lines are bad for white after 13.Nxg5. In that case, our branch point is my very first move. In fact, this is my hunch. |
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Jun-03-05
| | WannaBe: <Shams> Blunder check by S9 found no blunder for black or white. I input 11. h6 12. Bd2 g5 13. Nxg5 Nxf2 14. Kxf2 hxg5 15. Bxg5 However, full analysis based on the above line, have this... 14. ... Nf6!? 15. Nf3 Nxe4+ 16. Kg1 Nf3 
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| Jun-03-05 | | Shams: your black 16th move is wrong. now the whole thing is just really confusing...fritz thinks black is ok after 11...h6 12.Bd2 g5 but Shredder says white wins with a very, very obvious sac? Shredder really plays 13.Nxg5? hmm. well, thanks bro. |
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Jun-03-05
| | WannaBe: <Shams> 13. Nxg5 was your line. From the post: <<millert> I assume you evaluated 11...h6 12.Bd2 g5 13.Nxg5 Nxf2 14.Kxf2 hxg5 15.Bxg5 in black's favor, then?> Yes, that knight move on 16 is wrong, the only place on f would be f6 or f2. |
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| Jun-04-05 | | Shams: <WannaBe> I know it was mine, I was just surprised that I found the same move Shredder did -- and that black apparently missed. But I don't see nearly enough for the piece after 14...Nf6. |
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| Jun-04-05 | | millert: After 13Nxg5 N(g)f6 14 Nf3 Nxe4 black has a knight in the center of the board, equal material, decent pawn structure and Fritz give black a slight edge. It's a game. I believe 13 cxd is a much better try for White. |
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| Jun-06-05 | | Shams: <millert> you mean 13.dxc6? I don't see cxd. your line is much better, though, the simple Ngf6 and then ...Nxe4. thanks. |
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| Jun-06-05 | | millert: Yes I meant dxc. |
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| Jun-06-05 | | Shams: <millert> there are uncredited annotations on this game. are they yours?
D Hill vs T Miller, 1996 |
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| Jun-14-05 | | Landman: I suspect not - "Todd Q Miller" is American; the other T Miller appears to be from across the Atlantic. |
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Kibitzing
