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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jun-08-07 | | Skylark: First, and I found this puzzle reasonably easy to spot because of the geometrical motifs (ie skewer). Then I noticed that white's major pieces could infiltrate, and... well, white wasn't risking anything. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | SpecialK: 17. Rxd5 is the move that really stands out, and upon this move first White's bishop can cause havoc and then his (only) rook. I expect this is what is asked for, lets see... |
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| Jun-08-07 | | dzechiel: Looking at this position, my first thought is about 17 Bf3. If black can castle, that would be the correct move, but that information isn't given here. I will continue to study the position, but I may have to play the game up to this point to check on black's castling ability. Now I'm looking at 17 Rxd5 Qxd5 18 Bf3. This looks like it's winning a piece. As this is a Friday puzzle, it can't be that easy... Of course it isn't 18...Qxa2 19 Bxa8 Qa1+ 20 Kd2 Qxh8. Now the question is, "Is this the end of the line, or does white have something more?" Both of black's pieces are totally out of the action on h1 and h8. What about 21 Bc6+, is there anything here? The move drives the black king to a dark square and we will get a queen check on b6 or c5, but then it appears that the black king can scurry to safety eventually on h7. Hmm... I have an idea. How about 21 Qc5 instead? This stops black from castling and threatens 22 Bb6+, which leads to a forced mate if black can't do something in a hurry to stop it. It also threatens 22 Qc8+ picking up the rook. OK, here's my whole line:
17 Rxd5 Qxd5 18 Bf3 Qxa2 19 Bxa8 Qa1+ 20 Kd2 Qxh8 21 Qc5 f6 22 Qc8+ and 23 Qxh8. Time to check and see if we are on the right track (I sure hope so). |
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Jun-08-07
 | | al wazir: What if black plays 19...Kf8, and after 20. Qc5+, 20...Kg8 ? If now 21. Rd8, then 21...Qf8. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | dzechiel: Well, saw some of this, but not nearly enough. I had a good run this week. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | dzechiel: <al wazir: What if black plays 19...Kf8, and after 20. Qc5+, 20...Kg8 ? If now 21. Rd8, then 21...Qf8.> I was wondering the same thing as I played through the game. Perhaps one of the guys will some serious computing power will explain. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | pinoywoodpusher: With nothing to lose... Rxd5 plus the attack is indeed a good deal for white. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | Skylark: 19. ... Kf8 20. Rd1 Qc8 21. Bxa8 Qxa8 22. Rd7 and black can safely resign |
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Jun-08-07
| | al wazir: I meant to say, what if black plays 19...Kf8, and after 20. Qc5+, 20...Kg8 ? If now 21. Rd7, then 21...Rb8, and if 22. Qe7, then 22...Qf8. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | Skylark: In other words, 20. Rd1! (not Qc5+) |
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| Jun-08-07 | | t3hPolak: Nice skewer puzzle! |
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| Jun-08-07 | | argishti: nice game |
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| Jun-08-07 | | Gilmoy: 17.Bf3 O-O looks blah.
Immediate candidate: [A] 17.Rxd5 Qxd5[] 18.Bf3 skewer. Immediate flaw: Black's Q just drops back into coverage: 18.. Qd8, and now taking the Ra8 would net zero profit. But Black's K is exposed on two diagonals: Bc6+, Qc5, Rd1 (in some order). [B] 17.Rxd5 Qxd5 18.Rd1 Qxa2 (Qxg2? 19.Bf3). White's B seems stuck on the wrong diagonal. Back to [A]: 19.Bc6+ Kf8 20.Rd1 (while f8 is blocked) Qc8 21.Qc5+ Kg8 22.Rd7 Qf8 ugh. Now White's Q is on the wrong diagonal, and Black's R escapes. Rearrange: [A2]: 19.Qc5 and Black looks busted. 19.. Rc8? 20.Bc6+ is a broom: Q+2R for B (Qd7 21.Bxd7+ Kxd7 22.Rd1+ Ke8 23.Qxc8+ and 24.Qxh8). 19.. (f6,f5) 20.Bh5+ Kd7 21.Rd1#. 19.. Qe7 20.Qc6+ collecting the R, as Kd8 21.Rd1+ mates. I think that's it. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | think: I guessed Bf3. Does this move at least give an advantage to White? |
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| Jun-08-07 | | willyfly: 17 ♖xd5 jumped right out at me.
Then after 17...♕xd5 18 ♗f3 puts the skewer to the ♕ to win the ♖.
But I was thinking more along the lines of 18...♕xa2. Wonder if that might have been better for black. But either way 19 ♗c6+ is the beginning of the end for black. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | vibes43: vibes43: 17. Rxd5 was easy enough to see. Had to be for me to see it. There are too many possibilities from there to think about tonight. It seems that Qxa2 would throw white off tempo but at some point white could move g2 to protect Rh1. I think Bc6+ was a key move to see that I didn't from the start. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | chessmoron: 17.Rxd5 18.Bf3 is very easy to find, though guessing 18...Qxa2. After 18...Qd8, you really have to work through the king chase with your ♕ and ♗ and ♖ and when you made Black's king vulnerable, then you get the rook with your bishop. Interesing Friday's puzzle. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | Gilmoy: I wrote: <19.Qc5 ... Rc8? 20.Bc6+ is a broom:> No, Black simply returns the exchange himself: 20.. Rxc6. 19.Bc5+ looks correct -- it's White's only opportunity to get a temporary 3-on-2 in the attack (ignoring the useless Rh8). With Black's Q tied to its R, White can choose when to deflect her, for a momentary 2-on-0 with mate threats. The sac-skewer wasn't a combo to win material, but to win time/position (which White used to penetrate his R to 7). That's a very useful theme. |
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Jun-08-07
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: What's the follow-up after 18...Qxa2? If 19.Bc6+ Kf8 20.Qc5+ Kg8 21.Bxa8 Qa1+ 22.Kd2 Qxh1 23.Qc8+ Kh7 24.Be4+ g6 25.Bxg6+ Black can decide between the risky exchange up endgame after ...Kg7, the safer pawn up endgame after ...Kxg6 or immediate perpetual after ...fxg6. No win for White there. The direct 19.Bxa8 seems no improvement - if 19...Qa1+? 20.Kd2 Qxh1 then after 21.Qc5 White has enough for his material deficit (according to Crafty), but after 19...0-0! Black simultaneously threatens the bishop and skewer at a1, ending a pawn up. Any improvements on this? |
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| Jun-08-07 | | romison: to Dzechiel: what if black plays
19 ... 0-0 instead of Qa1+? |
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| Jun-08-07 | | cuendillar: I tried to stop the counterplay in 17.Rxd5 Qxd5 18.Bf3 Qxa2 by instead playing 17.c4 bxc4 (17...Rc8 18.Rxd5 Qxd5 refute it, so I looked at the immediate capture instead, please excuse that this makes the move numbers wrong. Looking at the Qd8 line, I saw the following:)18.Rxd5 Qxd5 19.Bf3 Qd8 20.Bc6+ Kf8 (20...Ke7 21.Rd1 Qc8 22.Qc5+ Kf6 23.Rd7 but I couldn't see how to win if he defended f7 here) 21.Rd1 Qc8 22.Bxa8 Qxa8 23.Qb6 Ke7 24.Qc7+ Kf6 and I wished I had kept the bishop. Since there were a couple loose threads to tie up for me in these variations, I can't say I solved it. Maybe I would have tried it out in game and hoped that he wouldn't find the best defense, but I failed to visualise all of it. Likely, I would have tried something else entirely such as 17.Bf3 0-0 18.Bxd5 exd5 and play against the isolated pawn. There's no complications in that. Too hard for me, even if the first move I looked at turned out strongest. Maybe if I had looked at it even longer. "Promising" just isn't a sufficiently good evaluation to sacrifice, even if you're told that there might be something in there.. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | Aspirador: After 18...Qxa2, simply play 19.Qc5 which wins easily. |
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Jun-08-07
| | SwitchingQuylthulg: <Aspirador> OK, that explains it. Well spotted. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | eaglewing: <Aspirador> 18...Qxa2 19.Qc5 Qa1+ 20. Kd2 Rd8+ 21. Ke2 (c3/e3) Qxh1 and how does it win? I wonder about the 18...Qxa2 option, too. |
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| Jun-08-07 | | eblunt: Aspirador: After 18...Qxa2, simply play 19.Qc5 which wins easily.> Thanks, I abandoned Rxd5 because of Qxa2, hadn't spotted that at all. <eaglewing> 22. Bc6+ Rd7 23 Qd6 is coming next |
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Kibitzing
sac: 17.Rxd5