| Aug-26-08 | | OneArmedScissor: That was one hell of a draw... |
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| Aug-26-08 | | acirce: 75..f2 was a tablebase draw as well, but Ivanchuk's 75..g3 was easier and more thematic - point being that the knight from f1 would otherwise have reached c7 quicker when White has advanced his pawn to a6. Imagine the position after 87..Ka8 as in the game:
click for larger viewbut with this position instead:
click for larger view(or this:
click for larger view )
Now Nd5 f1=Q Nc7+ Kb8 a7+ Kc8 a8=Q+ Kd7 Qe8+ Kd6 Qe6# wins. Or with Black's king on b8, a7+ Ka8 Nd5 -> Nc7#. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | Aspirador: I guess 42...Bf3 43.Nc4 h5 might have been an easier draw option for black. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | JonathanJ: they could have stopped some moves earlier, but i guess they had a little fun at the end. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | Aspirador: Ivanchuk originally wanted to play 88...g1N here but then realized in time that this loses to 89.Nd4! |
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| Aug-26-08 | | PinkPanther: It's garbage like this that makes me believe stalemate should be a win for the side stalemating. I think it's a flaw in the rules of chess. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | Aspirador: How about if the side giving perpetual wins? |
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| Aug-26-08 | | parmetd: what a load of crap pinkpanther. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | micartouse: <PinkPanther: It's garbage like this that makes me believe stalemate should be a win for the side stalemating. I think it's a flaw in the rules of chess.> I agree with something similar to this: I think the stalemate rule should be eliminated, and a player should be allowed (or forced) to pass. Some theoretical draws would remain drawn, but the above position would be won for White since he can mate with the knight. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | parmetd: you're off your rocker. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | PinkPanther: This game was a draw. Ivanchuk had his ass handed to him all game long. Where is the justice in that? In chess, the most logical and objective of all games (or so people think, at least), there isn't really any room for this kind of nonsense. If your position is so bad THAT YOU CANNOT EVEN MAKE A MOVE, then as far as I am concerned, you lose. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | whatthefat: <PinkPanther: This game was a draw. Ivanchuk had his ass handed to him all game long. Where is the justice in that?> He was down a pawn with bishop vs. knight. He just found a colourful way to draw. I don't see the problem. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | Aspirador: BREAKING NEWS --- BREAKING NEWS
ADJUSTMENT IN THE NEW FIDE RULES
If a player CANNOT EVEN MAKE A MOVE then he is required by the new rules to put a cherry on top of his head and proceed slowly to the bathroom. If a player refuses to do so, then he will be forfeited. |
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| Aug-26-08 | | PinkPanther: <whatthefat>
He found a way to draw based on a flawed rule in the game. That's what I've been getting at all along. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | whatthefat: <PinkPanther>
But there were plenty of other ways for him to draw this game. I feel a greater sense of injustice at something like ♔♘♘ vs. ♔, but that's just how chess is. Such material advantages are made purely superficial by the reality of the position. Both sides know the rules, and if you allow the opponent to stalemate - or find a drawn ending like the above example - with a material advantage, then you really only have yourself to blame. I can understand an argument against stalemate from an aesthetic point of view, but the rule is already totally ingrained, and IMO it produces its own aesthetic beauty in many endgames. Similarly, the concept of zugzwang would be lost if the option to pass was introduced. I personally quite enjoyed playing over this ending; it's impressive to me the way Ivanchuk simplified to a totally drawn position, but not the position you might have expected. |
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| Aug-27-08 | | parmetd: yes this endgame is beautiful and he wouldn't have drawn it this way were you to absurdly change the rules like that. Ivanchuk never got 'his ass handed' to him here. Such language shows an utter misunderstanding of the intricacies of this game.
I must say though that many 2-3 yearolds learning the rule of stalemate often are confused how they have drawn and not won. But I suppose your misunderstanding is a little less forgivable. |
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Kibitzing
