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| Jul-09-09 | | popski: Sometimes I intentionally play for a draw on FICS, just trying to keep the balance. Man, that's harder to achieve than you think! Usually I win or lose, but draw... it's like walking on a loose rope! |
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Jul-09-09
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Kramnik> = The death of chess <Kramnik> + <Leko> = Draw mongering weasels. CASE CLOSED
I don't know how anybody in their right mind could continue to be a <Kramnik> fan these days. |
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| Jul-09-09 | | Raginmund: draw it's a decision and part of a chess game.
obviously, I prefer a fighting draw.
in this game, Black choosen the common strategy of playing to draw,
like several champions did it before.
So, what's against Black getting its hoped result??
Kramnik always!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Jul-09-09 | | AgentRgent: <jessicafischerqueen: Kramnik = The death of chess> OH Please!! <I don't know how anybody in their right mind could continue to be a <Kramnik> fan these days.> Some of us are interested in good chess and aren't obsessed with getting a "decisive result". Furthermore, I still appreciate his dedication to chess and the world championship. |
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Jul-09-09
| | jessicafischerqueen: "good chess"
Does this include weaseling a draw in 25 moves before the game is out of the <Opening Explorer>? That behavior should result in a two year ban from tournament play. I don't care about the result. IMO, the most beautiful game of chess ever played was a draw- it's the first link at the top of my Profile- <Fischer v. Tal> at the Leipzig Olympiad. Check your facts before you shoot your mouth off.
Do you think this game here is beautiful?
Are you out of your mind? |
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| Jul-09-09 | | AgentRgent: <jessicafischerqueen> I wasn't strictly referring to this game, I wouldn't be much of a fan if a single game made me withdraw my support. As for shooting my mouth off, perhaps you should A) Notice that I didn't say <you> only cared about results, and B) Realize that with "Kramnik = The death of chess", I wasn't the one who started "shooting" first. |
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| Jul-09-09 | | AgentRgent: <jessicafischerqueen: Does this include weaseling a draw in 25 moves before the game is out of the Opening Explorer>? Novelty of stem-game: 10. dxc5 according to: Games Like Kramnik vs Leko, 2009 |
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Jul-09-09
| | jessicafischerqueen: <AgentRgent>
Yes quite right- it's me and not you who has posted in an insane manner here. I just get so steamed that <GM Kramnik> has stated publicly- and often- in interviews that he has been deliberately seeking to draw in every single game he has with the Black pieces. Now the fact of the matter is that many, many other GMs have a higher "short draw" percentage than <GM Kramnik>. I think this is the case because <Kramnik> is so clearly superior in talent to the vast majority of other players. It is precisely because he became <World Champion> that his strategy with the Black pieces is so offensive to me. It may have been the most effective strategy to beat <Kasparov> in Match play- but what kind of example is this setting for the Chess fan and for aspiring Super GMs? He is cheating us out of potentially exciting games that will never be played, that never could have been played, due to this frankly cowardly and selfish- yes, very selfish- Tournament and Match strategy. That is what makes me so angry about him.
Contrary to what you might have gleaned from my previous two posts on this thread- I'm not actually insane. I know that <GM Kramnik> is one of the best ever to play the game. But again- that's why his attitude and strategy makes me so very angry. |
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| Jul-09-09 | | VaselineTopLove: <JFQ> I can understand your frustration with Kramnik's draws but he has a right to be selfish about how he chooses to play. He's simply choosing self-preservation over exciting games that might lead to a higher percentage of losses. Draws are better than losses just for the amusement of the masses. His style enables him to play more or less consistently and remain in the top, although he's gradually slipping, slowly but surely. Should he wish to climb back up the ladder, he would need to make changes. This attitude is obviously a reflection of his core playing style (solid-positional), physical/mental stamina, lack of confidence in certain positions and his repertoire with Black. Perhaps he finds it unnecessary to experiment at this stage of his career, having been there and done it. Of course if he still has the fire in his belly, we can expect him to make drastic changes. But I think this year, he will simply utilize his Bonn preparation and focus on family matters and probably devote more time to chess after a year or two. |
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Jul-09-09
| | jessicafischerqueen: <VaselineTopLove>
Yes, I do understand these points.
However, I'm sure I am not alone in preferring- much preferring- players like <GM Topalov>, <GM Radjabov>, and most recently <GM Vugar Gashimov> and <GM Dmitry Jakovenko> for their dedication to attacking chess. I was bitterly disappointed to see <GM Topalov> lose at Elista. I believe that the upcoming <Anand-Topalov> Match has the potential to be one of the most exciting World Championship Matches in all of chess history. Well I think many of these posts will be deleted from this game page because they are off-topic- That's my fault.
At any rate, thanks for your post. |
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| Jul-09-09 | | AgentRgent: <VaselineTopLove> Well put. <jessicafischerqueen> I guess I just don't feel Kramnik owes me anything. I just enjoy the "good" games without feeling that he's somehow cheating me if he doesn't play for a win in every game. When Kramnik wins it's usually a delight, so I'm willing to settle for a fair number of "blah" games in exchange for those gems. Other players (Topalov comes to mind) have more decisive games, but on the whole I enjoy their chess far less. |
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| Jul-10-09 | | VaselineTopLove: <JFQ> No one's criticizing you for preferring certain players over others. You are right in saying that in general, Kramnik's playing style is not very entertaining compared to that of others. But Kramnik will have his share of fans because they might have a similar playing style or prefer openings that Kramnik does. I am no big fan of Kramnik either but I don't expect him to make sudden changes right after Bonn. All this requires a paradigm shift in overall chess outlook and will take time. For the time being, he is likely to rely on his old playing style and go through his existing preparation. |
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| Jul-10-09 | | VaselineTopLove: Yes I like Kramnik's demeanor and think that he's a good ambassador for the sport - decent play, good achievements, nice personality. So overall, I like Kramnik, but from a chess standpoint alone, I am not such a big fan. |
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| Jul-10-09 | | acirce: In fact, Kramnik has the "weirdest collection of fans: gays, commies, orthodox Russian nationalists, and even a few teenage girls and cat lovers" (I think it was <csmath> who said this.) Seriously though, you don't have to like him only for what he brings to the chessboard itself to be a "fan". Many of us appreciate what he has otherwise done to make the chess world better -- nobody else did more than he to unify the titles while retaining the classical match system, for instance -- and/or his fascinating personality or aspects of it. (I mean, he <is> a person, not a chess robot. I could never be a supporter of someone I despised, no matter what I thought of his chess.) |
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| Jul-10-09 | | acirce: Sorry, edited and reposted... |
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| Jul-10-09 | | kulangot: <jfq>if you don't like kramnik kind of chess,just keep it to your self and shut up.And who the hell are you to be angry? |
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| Jul-14-09 | | popski: Ah, thank you CG for a ignore button! :) |
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| Jul-14-09 | | whiteshark: hehe, please consider y'days Quote of the Day again
<There are no facts, only interpretations.>
-- Nietzsche
Tkx :D |
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| Jul-14-09 | | KamikazeAttack: <I'm not actually insane.> We will make that call, thank u very much. |
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| Jul-14-09 | | KamikazeAttack: <if you don't like kramnik kind of chess,just keep it to your self and shut up.And who the hell are you to be angry?> lol |
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| Jul-14-09 | | Xeroxx: Don't.....
be.....
angry.....
Make love...
Not chess |
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Apr-03-10
 | | Richard Taylor: I wouldn't mind getting a draw against Leko! Great game - compare Gelfand's loss to Grischuk!! [9...a6 etc as against 9...b6] Disaster for Gelfand, clever win by Grischuk but no one is going to give Gelfand brownie points for cooperating in his own demise... Most well played games are going to be draws at GM level. This is moron talk about draws and so on by people who are usually quite weak at chess. |
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Apr-03-10
| | Richard Taylor: I agree with <Acirce> in principle - hard to be fan of Fischer despite his many great games...like being fan of Goebbels if he played chess! But why be a fan of anyone GM or master? - I study all these players games, Kramnik has interesting games, Grischuk, Topalov, they all are great players and contribute different things...Smyslov was one of the best of course but one can learn and enjoy Botvinnik or Petrosian or in another mood Tal and so on.... Ivanchuk plays a wide range of "styles" if you like as does Taopalov and I have seen Krmnik play sharp games also as well as his more deep 'positional' games. Most GM games are draws as they are so good and consistent. |
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Apr-03-10
| | Richard Taylor: If you are worried about Kramnik's draws have a look at this one!! Potkin vs Grischuk, 2008 |
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| Apr-03-10 | | lost in space: Kramink's play after he lost the world championchip match vs Anand is very impressive. Have a look at his result and play at the Tal Memorial in 2009: Tal Memorial (2009)/Vladimir Kramnik Very active play with black and white. He seems to have learnt a lot out of his lost against Anand. Surely one of the best players today. |
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