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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Sep-02-24
 | | takebackok: Easy peasy Monday, after 29...Nxe4 no real defense to Nf2 and or Qxf3 its gg. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | Allderdice83: Not too hard. A little complicated for a Monday. The queen is threatened, but after 29 ... Nxe4, Black threatens Nf2#, which is still mate after 30. Nxf4. 30. fxe4 Qxe4+ is mate in 1. Or, if the queen moves to stop Nf2, either 30. Qe1 or 30. Qd4, there is 30 ... Qxf3#. Finally, on 30. Qe3, there is no immediate mate, but Black simply takes the queen; 30 ... Qxe3 31. Rf1 Nf2+ 32. Rxf2 Qxf2 33. Rg1 Qxf3+ 34. Rg2 Qxg2#. Black's up a queen, two rooks, and three pawns for a knight in the final position. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: The king doesn't think the pot is too easy, but: 29...Nxe4 (30. Nxf4 Nf2#) then 30. fxe4 Qxe4+ 31. Qf3 Qxf3#. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | stacase: Yay! I went move for move for two moves.</sarc> BUT! Was there another move for White as in:
30. Rf1 ??
Maybe someone will point out why that doesn't work for White. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | latebishop: Yes indeed stacse, 30. Rf1 seems like a much tougher defence? Eg: 30...Nxc3 31.Nxf4 Rxb3 32.Rxa5 Rb7 33.Nd3 Rc7 34.R(f)a1 ? etc |
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| Sep-02-24 | | mel gibson: I could see either 29. .. Nxe4 or 29. .. Ng4
Stockfish 16.1 says:
29. .. Nxe4
(29. .. Nxe4 (1. ... Nxe4 2.Rf1 Nxc3 3.Nxf4 Rf5 4.Nd3 Rxb3 5.Rxa5 Ne4 6.Re1 Nd2 7.Nxc5 Rbxf3 8.Nb7
Nxc4 9.Rxf5 Rxf5 10.Re7 Rd5 11.Rc7 Ne5 12.Kg2 Kg7 13.Nc5 a5 14.h3 Nd3
) +5.13/49 147)
score for Black +5.13 depth 49.
If I force SF to play the other ply:
(29. .. Ng4
30. fxg4 (1.fxg4 Qxe4+ 2.Kg1 Qxe2 3.h3 Qe4 4.Rd3 Re8 5.Rf1 Rge5 6.Rd7 R5e7
7.Rd5 Qe6 8.Rf2 Qb6 9.Qf3 Qb4 10.Re5 a4 11.Qf6 Qb7 12.Rxe7 Rxe7 13.bxa4 Qc7
14.Kg2 Re3) -3.19/50 250)
score for White -3.19 depth 50. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | SchwartzSpringer: <latebishop> after 30. Rf1, 30...Qh4 threatening 31..Rh5 looks strong. If 31. Qe1 Qh3 32. Rg1 Qxf3+ mates. White looks lost already at move 29. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | latebishop: Thanks SchwartzSpringer. In your line after 31 Qh3 instead of Rg1 perhaps 31...Nf4? I put the position through an old engine (Crafty) and it just goes ahead with the exchange: 30.Rf1 Nxc3 31.Nxf4 Rf5! and black seems to have a big endgame plus. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | saturn2: 29...Nxe4 is a free pawn and good position with 2P+ nothing more. But white choose helpmate. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | SchwartzSpringer: Oops after 30.Rf1, 30...Qf4 drops the N:
31.fxe4 Qxe4+ 32. Qf3 ⩱ |
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Sep-02-24
 | | Knightf7mate: Very hard for me. I finally found the resource 30. Rf1 which saves mate but soon loses another pawn. So eventually a loss for white. Stockfish says a reply of 30..Qh4 gives white a reprieve at +1. 1) +1.09 (29 ply) 31.fxe4 Rh5 32.Qg3 Rxb3 33.Qf4 Qe7 34.Ng3 Rh3 35.Kg1 Rh4 36.Qf6 Qxf6 37.Rxf6 Rb2 38.Nf1 Rxe4 39.Rxa5 Rg4+ 40.Kh1 a6 41.Rxc5 Rbg2 42.Ng3 Rc2 43.Rc7 Rgxc4 44.Rcxf7 a5 45.Rf3 Rc7 46.Rxc7 Rxc7 47.Kg2 Rc2+ 48.Kh3 Kg7 49.Ne4 |
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Sep-02-24
| | Knightf7mate: So Stacase is right that 30. Rf1 gives white the best way forward, even if down 3 pawns. But white was down 2 already. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | TheaN: Took a while for kibitzers to realize this Monday is a bit more involved than it looks at first glance: <29....Nxe4 30.Rf1> alternatives lose fast: Black threatens both Nf2# and Qxf3+, latter being mate if the White queen moves off the third. This kind of gives White no alternatives: 30.Qe1/Qd4 Qxf3#, 30.Qe3 Qxe3 -+, else Nf2#. When I eventually clicked on the puzzle, I thought Black had 30....Rg1+? after Rf1 which is a bit silly. Due to the mate threat I thought White had to take with the king (31.Nxg1 Nxc3 -+) but 31.Rxg1 +- is fine as the rook's no longer helping with the mate. Otherwise 31.Kxg1? Qg5+ with 32....Nxc3 -+. No, Black will have to dive into the endgame with <31....Nxc3 (Qh4? 32.fxe4 Qxe4+ 33.Qf3 ±) 32.Nxf4> and now best is <32....Rf5 -+> though I assume a few options win here. The result is perhaps a not so rewarding endgame win, though many a player will resign after 29....Nxe4 or allow White to mate. |
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Sep-02-24
 | | chrisowen: Ego its q fry its wu c v doh its z Nxe4 acrid mid duh its axiom juggle its block its wo its Nxe4 dug; |
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Sep-02-24
| | jinkinson: I hate these "very easy" problems where I look at it for what feels like forever and have no idea what the winning move is supposed to be. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | TheaN: For what it's worth, for Monday level I'd say seeing Nxe4 and that White can't take either the queen or knight (the latter I actually forgot in my post, but 30.fxe4? Qxe4+ 31.Qf3 Qxf3#) is enough. Nxc3 is the logical move after Rf1, but even pressuring the e-file works (Re5 -2.4, Re8 -2.1) as well as just a simple piece trade (Qd2 -2.1), all beyond Monday scope. Black wins the crucial pawn on e4, will take b3 somewhere along as well, and c4 and f3 will forever be weak. Black will lose a couple of pawns too (mainly the a-pawns) but should come at least two pawns ahead in most lines. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | Damenlaeuferbauer: After long thinking, the strong Hungarian GM and French connaisseur Ivan Farago finally found the nice queen sacrifice 29.-,Nxe4! 30.Nxf4 (30.fxe4,Qxe4+ 31.Qf3,Qxf3#; 30.Rf1,Nxc3 -+; 30.Qe1,Qxf3#) 30.-,Nf2#. I love Mondays! |
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| Sep-02-24 | | Pyrandus: Wunderbar! |
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| Sep-02-24 | | stacase: Reaction to one of my posts is unusual, so for the record: I had a 1400 rating in the early 1990s and haven't played any tournaments since or many real games. Once in a while I'll play a computer. I come here every day and maybe post a comment if I get the 1st move correct. (personal rule) |
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| Sep-02-24 | | Hercdon: Not an easy Monday this time. With perfect play black does stay 2 to 3 pawns ahead for a win. The actual gang took the shortcut and landed White in checkmate quickly |
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Sep-02-24
| | chrisowen: Ne4 crane strike xxx |
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Sep-02-24
| | chrisowen: Very scrappy x |
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Sep-02-24
| | chrisowen: Deck evict |
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| Sep-02-24 | | TheaN: <stacase: Reaction to one of my posts is unusual, so for the record: I had a 1400 rating in the early 1990s and haven't played any tournaments since or many real games. Once in a while I'll play a computer. I come here every day and maybe post a comment if I get the 1st move correct. (personal rule)> Rf1 is a good find. I'm 1900+ myself so it sort of comes as second nature to find the 'last resort'. A tip for finding these moves is primarily "what can my opponent NOT do?". Here, Nf2 and Qxf3 are both very serious threats, so it kind of leaves the only two moves that protects against both which are Qe3 and Rf1. Qe3 is not possible due to Qxe3, so Rf1 is left. And there's where I started looking at right away. Will say, spotting Rf1 as defensive resource is nicely done. |
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| Sep-02-24 | | stacase: <TheaN>
Thanks (-: |
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Kibitzing
sac: 29...Nxe4