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Vladimir Kramnik vs Magnus Carlsen
Grand Slam Chess Final (2010), Bilbao ESP, rd 1, Oct-09
Queen's Indian Defense: Fianchetto. Nimzowitsch Variation Nimzowitsch Attack (E15)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-10-10  goldenbear: Does 35.Rb4 not help? Black's position looks difficult to me, but Ra5 rules out Black defending with Rg6 should White move to the g-file. I don't have a computer program and I am questioning Carlsen, so take my advice for what it's worth, but I would expect to draw if I were playing Black in the position after 35.Rb4.
Oct-10-10  goldenbear: I went back to page one to read the comments and now I see that 35.Rb4 was already pointed out by <Eyal>, et. al. Sorry to beat a dead horse...
Oct-10-10  rapidcitychess: <Morphy2010>

I think he was referring to that Kasparov was Carlsen's trainer for a while.

Oct-10-10  notyetagm: <visayanbraindoctor: ... I see that Carlsen has only played Sjugirov among the rising young GMs in the Olympiad; too bad other youngsters like GMs So, Giri, Nepo, and Le were not able to play him.>

Le Quang Liem is *very* strong.

Oct-10-10  Kaspablanca: Guys, the fact is that Anand and Kramnik are still a bit higher than Carlsen despite his high rating. Carlsen can be world champion when those guys retire.
Oct-10-10  Atking: I like your idea <Hesam7> but I'm not sure to understand completely <Now Shipov's original idea does not work: 33. Nh2?! Ke7 34. Nf3 Rg8+ this is the point of moving the bishop to h8 instead of g7 now Black get counterplay on the kingside! For example: 35. Kf2 Rh5 ...> Why not 35.Kh2 with the idea on 35...e5 to put the N on d3 or even better on d5 (d3-b4-d5) e.g 36.f5 Bf6 37.Rg1 RxR+ 38.KxR Bg5 39.Rg2?

Still I think we agree that Kramnik won here a high strategical battle.

Premium Chessgames Member
  blazerdoodle: It's good to see Kramnik playing excellent chess. Carlsen needs to play these guys a lot more, obviously. He's still got time to catch up to them. I'm not the person who can predict weather he can. He has youth on his side, and that gives one a number of advantages in the long haul, if he's up to it.
Oct-12-10  James Bowman: I agree with Kapablanca that maybe Kramnik and Anand are still a notch better than Carlsen is at the moment, but I don't think he will have to wait for them to retire. Also he is simply out of form in a big way regardless, he waited a long time to have a lapse but made up for it pretty well.

Kramnik is playing very strong as of late. As it stands the best match up for me would be Kramnik vs Aronian. Seems like Kramnik has become less satisfied with a draw even before Bilboa and more geared towards tournaments than endurance matches.

I just had a thought, maybe Carlsens poor form is partly due to his opening prep, possibly he normally steers towards positions that fit his style and he has ideas (intuition) earlier in the game. Now he is getting to objectivly better positions but is somewhat unable to capatilize on them? I know I didn't articulate that very well but I am pondering the idea seriously.

As a former pool player getting into a rythym was as important as having a good table in front of you so to speak.

Or as a driver maybe being put in the lead of a race without driving enough laps to get a feel for the track and car etc... you would simply lose the lead advantage quickly?

Oct-13-10  David2009: Did Carlsen resign too early?

Crafty End Game Trainer link: Not quite as easy as it looks!

One possible continuation (Crafty EGT defending): 45.Rd1 Rb8 46.Rd2 Ra8 47.Rd6 Rb8 48.Ke4 c4 49.bxc4 h4 50.Kd5 Rc8 to reach

click for larger view

Ke6 wins easily as does 51 Kd4 Rb8 52 Nxf8 etc; but what about 51 Rxb6?

Oct-13-10  HSOL: Carlsen has been on constant rise the last two-three years more or less and pretty much won or been very close to win most of the supertournametns he's played. He's been the #1 player for the last year and suddenly after 1½ bad tournament, he's far behind Anand and Kramnik?

I mean, Kramnik wasn't particularly good at Dortmund. Anand had several lacklustre tournaments before the World Champs match.

Sure, Carlsen is currently in a slump but neither Kramnik's or Anand's performances in the last year have been without poor tournaments.

Carlsen's current fixed ELO rating puts him as #2 of all time of ELO ratings ahead of all currently active players.

Oct-13-10  Ulhumbrus: The move 16 Bxb8?! concedes the bishop pair to Black. Although 17 Ne5 exchanges the Black Queen's bishop, Black may be able to gain the upper hand with his remaining bishop.

Instead of 20...Kf8, Black has two alternatives, either of which may gain the advantage.

20...d5 may gain the advantage after eg 21 cxd5 exd5 22 exd5 Nxd5 23 Nxd5 Rxd5 or 21 e5 Ne4 22 Nxe4 dxe4 23 Ne1 f5 24 exf6 Bxf6

20...Ne8 may gain the advantage eg after 21 Nb5 Nc7! 22 Nxc7 Rxc7 23 f4 Bf6

Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: Dang, Carlsen was used and abused.
Oct-14-10  nigelsnoru: Carlsen is definitely slumping, but on the other side of the coin, I can't think of a player right now that Kramnik DOESN'T use and abuse. Maybe Anand and that's it. I think Shirov used to give VK a run for the money back in the day, but no longer.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: Incredible game by Kramnik - beautiful as Capablanca as some one observed.
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: 11 rating points gained by Volodya from this tournament.
Oct-16-10  BobCrisp: And a stupid hat.
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: Kramnik seems to think the same judging by his expression:

Oct-17-10  BobCrisp: <There is no fate that cannot be overcome by scorn.>

Alternatively, just take it off as quickly as possible:

Nov-02-10  checkmateyourmove: from move 32 and on is kramnik at his best. The way he uses his knight in the final sequence is a beauty to watch .
Nov-25-10  Fanques Fair: (David2009: Did Carlsen resign too early?)

In the final position, White is threatening 46- Rd7 !!! , and if Black plays 45-...,Rc7, then 46-Rd6,Rb7, 47- Re6+, Kd7 , 48-Nxf8 wins the piece ...

Nov-26-10  capatal: <Kingscrusher> Good annotation and video on this game @

Mar-21-11  hellopolgar: <Fanques Fair: (David2009: Did Carlsen resign too early?)

In the final position, White is threatening 46- Rd7 !!! , and if Black plays 45-...,Rc7, then 46-Rd6,Rb7, 47- Re6+, Kd7 , 48-Nxf8 wins the piece ...>

not really if you go 46 Rd7, Black will just take your rook with his king.

but anyways, guys, look at the final position. can you believe that black is a 2800+ player? he has literally NO MOVES left but move his rook between a8, b8 and c8, anything else will result an immediate loss of a piece. and white has a million ways to win.

Jun-10-12  notyetagm: GM SHIPOV ->
Jun-10-12  notyetagm: Game Collection: SHIPOV'S EXCELLENT COMMENTARY IN ENGLISH
Jan-22-13  iamsheaf: In the final position, white has a plan of putting the rook on d6 and then transferring the king to Queen side and slowly munch all pawns...c8 rook can't move since it allows a check on the e-file and wins a piece....

A sample line would be ..Rb8 Rd6 Rc8 Ke3 Rb8 Kd3( followed by -Kc3-Kb5)

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