|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
May-11-11
 | | Golden Executive: Analysis of our last game (part 3)
<Over the next 20-25 moves, the eval continued to climb (white won a pawn at move 60), peaking at 1.73 after white's 72nd move> Moves/Eval/Depth/Time
48.Nd1 Nf8 0.00/19 49
49.Ne3 Be6 0.00/16 48
50.N1g2 Ng6 0.07/19 34
51.c3 Rd8 0.10/19 48
52.f4 exf4 0.10/17 1:09
53.Nxf4 Nxf4 0.19/17 44
54.Qxf4 Qc7 0.21/18 18
55.Rd4 Re8 0.28/20 2:16
56.Rg1 f6 0.26/19 56
57.Rgd1 Bb3 0.26/18 25
58.R1d2 Re5 0.26/16 57
59.Nf5 Be6 0.50/19 1:09
60.Nxd6 h5 0.52/19 29
61.gxh5 Rxh5 0.56/17 7
62.R4d3 Rh6 0.58/18 35
63.Kg2 Kh7 0.58/15 10
64.h4 Rh5 0.63/15 4
65.Kg1 Qa7+ 0.56/12 1
66.Rd4 Re5 0.66/19 35
67.Kh2 Qb8 0.68/19 37
68.Qf3 Rc7 0.63/19 15
69.Qg3 Re7
70.Rg2 Qf8
71.Qg6+ Kh8
72.b3 Rd7 <0.96/18> 55 After 72.b3:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Houdini 1.5a w32 <depth 22> <1.  (0.78): 72...Rd7> 73.Rg3 Bf7 74.Nxf7+ Rxf7 75.c4 Kg8 76.c5 f5 77.exf5 Rexf5 78.Kh3 Rf1 79.Qe6 Kh8 80.Qd5 R7f2 81.Rd1 Rxd1 82.Qh5+ Kg8 83.Qxd1 Rf4 84.Rg4 Rf3+ 85.Kg2 Rf2+ 86.Kg3 Rf1 87.Qe2 Qf7 2. (0.82): 72...Bf7 73.Qg3 Bxb3 74.Nf5 Rxe4 75.Nxe7 Rxe7 76.Rgd2 Bf7 77.Rd6 Kh7 78.Rg2 Bc4 79.Qg6+ Kh8 80.Rxa6 Qb8+ 81.Qg3 Qe8 82.Rd6 Kh7 83.Qg4 Qb8 84.Qg6+ Kh8 85.Qg3 Qc8 86.Rgd2 Qf5 87.Rd8+ Kh7 88.Rg2 Bd5 89.Qg4 Qe5+ Moves/Eval/Depth/Time
73.Rg3 Bf7 0.90/12 8
74.Nxf7+ Rxf7 0.75/19 10
75.c4 Kg8 0.79/15 5
76.c5 f5 0.79/18 9
77.exf5 Rexf5
<As late as move 78, the eval stood at 1.61. Even Houdini, much more stingy than Stockfish in its evaluations, recognized that black was in trouble> 78.Rg2 Rf4 0.57/16 44
After 78.Rg2:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Houdini 1.5a w32 <depth 22> <1.  (0.46): 78...Rf4> 79.Rxf4 Rxf4 80.Qg5 Qf7 81.h5 Rf5 82.Qd8+ Kh7 83.Qd3 Kg8 84.Rg5 Qc7+ 85.Qg3 Qxg3+ 86.Rxg3 Rxh5+ 87.Kg2 Rh6 88.Rf3 Re6 89.Kg3 g6 90.Kg4 Kg7 91.Kg5 Re5+ 92.Kf4 2. (0.71): 78...Rf2 79.Qe6 R2f6 80.Qe5 Rf2 81.Rdg4 Rxg2+ 82.Rxg2 Qd8 83.Qe4 Re7 84.Qg4 Qd5 85.Re2 Re5 86.Rxe5 Qxe5+ 87.Kg1 Qe1+ 88.Kg2 Qd2+ 89.Kf1 Qc1+ 90.Kf2 Qd2+ 91.Kg3 Qe1+ 92.Kg2 Qd2+ |
|
May-11-11
 | | kutztown46: <GE> It would appear from your data that Houdini thinks white's advantage peaked at move 72. What mistake or mistakes to you believe Stockfish made that allowed Houdini to escape with a draw? I have not looked at this yet - I have spent all my available time (as you can see) looking at how Stockfish developed its advantage. |
|
May-11-11
| | Golden Executive: Analysis of our last game (part 4)
<53...Nxf4 looks like it was a mistake. Eval jumped to 0.64 with this move.> After 53..Nxf4 54.Qxf4 <0.27/25> Better was 53..Rc7 54.Re1 <0.18/25> <58...Re5 may have been Houdini's most serious error thus far. This move took the eval over 1.00 for the first time.> After 58..Re5 59.Nf5 <0.56/25> Much better was 58..Bf7 59.Nf5 <0.33/25> <What mistake or mistakes to you believe Stockfish made that allowed Houdini to escape with a draw?> Seems like <77.exf5> was the first Stockfish inaccuracy: After <76..f5>:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Houdini 1.5a w32 <depth 24> 1. (0.69): 77.Rf3 Rf6 78.Qg5 Qf7 79.exf5 Rfxf5 80.Rd8+ Kh7 81.Rxf5 Rxf5 82.Qe3 Rf2+ 83.Kg3 Rf6 84.Rd4 Kg8 85.Kg2 Re6 86.Qf3 Rf6 87.Qd5 Rg6+ 88.Kh3 Re6 89.Kg3 Rg6+ 90.Kh2 Qxd5 91.Rxd5 Rg4 92.c6 Rxh4+ 93.Kg2 Rg4+ 94.Kf2 Rf4+ 95.Ke3 <2. (0.54): 77.exf5> Rexf5 78.Qe6 Kh8 79.Rd5 Rxd5 80.Qxd5 Rf4 81.Rg4 Rxg4 82.Qh5+ Kg8 83.Qxg4 Qf2+ 84.Kh3 Qf1+ 85.Qg2 Qf5+ 86.Kh2 Qe5+ 87.Qg3 Qe2+ 88.Kg1 Qd1+ 89.Kf2 Qc2+ 90.Kf1 Qf5+ 91.Kg1 Qe4 92.Qg5 Qb1+ 93.Kh2 Qxb3 94.Qd8+ Kh7 95.Qd4 Qf3 Then, after <78.Rg2 Rf4> the eval dropped again and Stockfish played <79.Qd3>: Analysis by Houdini 1.5a w32 <depth 22> 1. (0.44): 79.Rxf4 Rxf4 80.Qg5 Qf7 81.h5 Rf5 82.Qd8+ Kh7 83.Qd3 Kg8 84.Rg5 Rf3 85.Qd8+ Kh7 86.Qd4 Rf2+ 87.Rg2 Rf5 88.c6 Qe7 89.Qc3 Rxh5+ 90.Kg1 Qc7 91.Qg3 Re5 92.Rh2+ Kg8 93.Rh6 Kf7 94.Qf4+ Kg8 <2. (0.39): 79.Qd3> R7f5 80.Qd1 Qf7 81.Rxf4 Rxf4 82.Rg4 Rf2+ 83.Kg1 Rb2 84.Qd8+ Kh7 85.Qd4 Rxb3 86.Qe4+ Kg8 87.Rf4 Rb1+ 88.Kg2 Qb3 89.Qd4 Qc2+ 90.Qf2 Qg6+ 91.Kh2 Rb3 92.Qg2 Qe6 93.h5 Qe5 94.Qa8+ Kh7 95.Qe4+ Qxe4 96.Rxe4 Kh6 97.c6 Rc3 98.Re6+ Kxh5 After <79..R7f5>:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Houdini 1.5a w32 <depth 24> 1. (0.34): 80.Qd1 Qf7 81.Rxf4 Rxf4 82.Rg4 Rf2+ 83.Kg1 Rb2 84.Qd8+ Kh7 85.Qd4 Rxb3 86.Qe4+ Kg8 87.Rf4 Rb1+ 88.Kh2 Qa2+ 89.Kh3 Qa3+ 90.Rf3 Qa1 91.Qd5+ Kh7 92.Qd3+ Kg8 93.Qd6 Rh1+ 94.Kg4 Qg1+ 95.Kh5 Qg2 96.Qd3 Rg1 97.Qe4 Qd2 98.Re3 Qf2 2. (0.33): 80.Qe3 Qf7 81.Re2 Kh7 82.Rxf4 Rxf4 83.Qd3+ g6 84.h5 Rh4+ 85.Kg1 Rxh5 86.Qd2 Qf6 87.Rh2 Rxh2 88.Qxh2+ Kg7 89.Qc7+ Kh6 90.Qd6 Kg7 91.Qd7+ Kf8 92.Qd5 Qf4 93.Qe6 Qg3+ 94.Kf1 Qf3+ 95.Ke1 Qc3+ 96.Ke2 3. (0.31): 80.Rg3 Qe7 81.Rxf4 Rxf4 82.Qd5+ Kf8 83.Rf3 Qxh4+ 84.Kg2 Qg4+ 85.Kf2 Rf6 86.Qd8+ Kf7 87.Qc7+ Kf8 88.Rxf6+ gxf6 89.Qd6+ Kf7 90.Qd5+ Kf8 91.c6 Qh4+ 92.Ke2 Qg4+ 93.Ke3 Ke7 94.Qc5+ Ke6 95.Kd2 Qf4+ 96.Kd3 Qg3+ 97.Ke4 Qg4+ 98.Ke3 Qg3+ 99.Kd4 Qxb3 4. = (0.24): 80.Rxf4 Rxf4 81.Rg5 Rxh4+ 82.Kg2 Qf6 83.Qd5+ Qf7 84.Qd8+ Kh7 85.Qd1 Rxb4 86.c6 Rf4 87.Rg4 Rxg4+ 88.Qxg4 Qd5+ 89.Qf3 Qd2+ 90.Kg3 Qd6+ 91.Kg4 Kg8 92.Qc3 Qe6+ 93.Kh4 Qe4+ 94.Kg3 Qg6+ 95.Kf2 Qf5+ 96.Kg2 Qg5+ 97.Kh2 Qf4+ 98.Kg2 Qg4+ 99.Qg3 Qe2+ 100.Qf2 Qg4+ 101.Qg3 Qe2+ <5. = (0.24): 80.Rd2> Qf7 81.Rd8+ Kh7 82.Rd5 Rxh4+ 83.Kg3 Qxd5 84.Qxd5 Rxd5 85.Rxd5 Rxb4 86.Rd3 Re4 87.Kf3 Re8 88.Rd6 a5 89.Ra6 a4 90.bxa4 bxa4 91.Rxa4 Kg6 92.Rg4+ Kf5 93.Rf4+ Kg6 94.Kg4 Re6 95.Rf8 Re4+ 96.Kf3 Rc4 97.Rc8 Kf5 Stockfish played <80.Rd2>. After reviewing the whole game, I am not sure if with best play of Stockfish after getting some advantage, that could be a win.That means that Houdini did not escape and Stockfish did not do relevant mistakes.Of course I am looking that from Houdini´s evals point of view. If I have had operated Stockfish, I, by sure, will be sharing <KT>´s point of view. <KT> I think it would be great to have an opinion from.....mmmmmhh....some Indian Carbon Unit? :) |
|
May-11-11
| | kutztown46: Stockfish disagrees with Houdini's 60...h5. The eval is now up to 1.33. After 60. Nxd6:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (31-ply):
1. ± (1.09): 60...Rb6 61.Nf5 Rb8 62.Ng3 Re8 63.Kh1 Qe7 64.Kg2 Bc8 65.Kh2 Qc7 66.Re2 Qc6 67.Nf5 h5 68.Nd6 Rf8 69.Red2 Be6 70.gxh5 Rxh5 71.Nf5 Re8 72.Rd6 Qc7 73.h4 Rh7 2. ± (1.25): 60...Kh8 61.Nf5 Kh7 62.Qg3 Qf7 63.Qf3 Bxf5 64.gxf5 Rc7 65.Rg2 Rce7 66.Qg4 Re8 67.Rgd2 R8e7 68.h4 Re8 69.R2d3 Kg8 70.Kh3 Kh7 71.Rd7 3. ± (1.29): 60...Rg5 61.Qf3 Re5 62.Kg2 Kh7 63.Nf5 Qb7 64.Nh4 Rb6 65.Kg3 Rc6 66.Qe3 Bf7 67.Nf5 Be6 68.Qf4 4. ± (1.33): 60...Kh7 61.Nf5 Qf7 62.Rd8 Bxf5 63.gxf5 Rc4 64.R8d4 Re8 65.Kg3 Rxd4 66.Rxd4 Kg8 67.Qd6 Qh5 5. ± (1.33): 60...h5 61.gxh5 Rxh5 62.R4d3 Kh7 63.Rg3 Kg8 64.Kg2 Qe7 65.Nf5 Bxf5 66.exf5 Rc8 67.Qf3 Rh4 68.Re2 Qf7 69.Kh1 Qc7 70.Qd5+ Kh8 71.Rge3 Kh7 72.Qg2 Qc6 73.Qxc6 Rxc6 74.Re6 Rc8 75.Kh2 Rh5 76.Rxa6 6. ± (1.37): 60...Qa7 61.h4 Qc7 62.Nf5 Kh7 63.Kg2 Qb7 64.Kf2 Qc7 65.Rd1 Rc4 66.Qf3 Bxf5 67.gxf5 Rxd4 68.Rxd4 Re8 69.Qg4 Kg8 70.Ke3 Kh8 71.Kf3 Kg8 72.h5 Qe7 |
|
May-12-11
| | kutztown46: <GE> We can certainly ask the opinion of the esteemed carbon unit from India, but what I am going to do first is identify where Stockfish had the maximum advantage, and slide forward with deep ply from there, looking for the best moves from both sides. I will try to determine if white can force a win or not. I will start working on that this weekend. |
|
May-12-11
| | kutztown46: Skipping ahead several moves - looking for the point of maximum eval for white: 1.33 at move 71.
After 71. Qg6+:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (27-ply):
1. ± (1.33): 71...Kh8 72.Kg1 Bf7 73.Nxf7+ Rxf7 74.h5 f5 75.h6 fxe4 76.Rxe4 Rxe4 77.hxg7+ Rxg7 78.Qxe4 Rxg2+ 79.Kxg2 Qg8+ 80.Kf2 Qa2 81.Qh1+ Kg7 82.Qg2+ Kf6 83.Ke3 Qe6+ 84.Qe4 Qa2 85.Qd4+ Ke7 86.Qe5+ Kd7 87.Qf5+ 2. ± (1.37): 71...Kg8 72.Rg3 Bd7 73.Kg1 f5 74.Rd2 f4 75.Rg5 Be8 76.Nxe8 Qxe8 77.Qxe8+ Rxe8 78.Rxe5 Rxe5 79.Kf2 Rh5 80.Rd6 Kf7 81.Rxa6 Rxh4 82.Rb6 g5 83.Rxb5 Kg6 84.Kg2 Rg4+ 85.Kf1 Rh4 86.c4 Rh2 87.b3 |
|
May-12-11
| | kutztown46: 1.45 at move 72 (since Houdini played 72...Rd7).
After 72. b3:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (29-ply):
1. ± (1.33): 72...Bf7 73.Nxf7+ Rxf7 74.c4 f5 75.exf5 Rexf5 76.Qb6 Re5 77.Qd8 Re8 78.Qg5 Qxb4 79.Qh5+ Kg8 80.Rxg7+ Kxg7 81.Rg4+ Kf8 82.Qh8+ Ke7 83.Re4+ Kd6 84.Qd4+ Kc7 85.Rxe8 Qd6+ 86.Qxd6+ Kxd6 87.cxb5 axb5 88.Kg3 2.  (1.45): 72...Rd7 73.Rg3 Bf7 74.Nxf7+ Rxf7 75.Kh3 Kg8 76.Rgd3 Re8 77.Kg2 Qe7 78.Qf5 Qb7 79.Rd8 Rff8 80.Rxe8 Rxe8 81.Qd5+ Qxd5 82.exd5 Kf7 83.Kf3 Re1 84.c4 Rf1+ 85.Kg2 bxc4 3. (1.49): 72...Kg8 73.c4 Bd7 74.c5 f5 75.Rdd2 Bc6 76.Nxf5 Bxe4 77.Nxe7+ Rxe7 78.Qg5 Bxg2 79.Rxg2 Qb8+ 80.Rg3 Re2+ 81.Kg1 Qc7 82.Qd5+ Kh7 83.Kf1 Rb2 84.Qh5+ Kg8 85.Qe8+ Kh7 86.Qe4+ Kg8 87.Qe6+ 4. (1.85): 72...Bd7 73.c4 Be8 74.Nxe8 Qxe8 75.Qxe8+ Rxe8 76.Rg4 Kg8 77.c5 Kf7 78.Kg3 g6 79.Kf2 R5e6 80.Ke3 Rh8 81.Kf4 Rh6 |
|
May-12-11
| | kutztown46: 1.49 at move 73.
After 73. Rg3:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (26-ply):
1. (1.49): 73...Bf7 74.Nxf7+ Rxf7 75.c4 bxc4 76.bxc4 Kg8 77.c5 a5 78.bxa5 Rxc5 79.Rgd3 Rc2+ 80.Kh3 Qc8+ 81.Kg3 Qc7+ 82.Kf3 2. (1.81): 73...Qg8 74.c4 Bf7 75.Nxf7+ Qxf7 76.Qxf7 Rxf7 77.c5 Rfe7 78.Rg4 Kg8 79.Kg3 Kf7 80.Rf4 R7e6 81.Kf3 g6 82.Ke3 Ke7 83.Kd3 Rh5 84.Rg4 Rh6 85.Kc3 Rc6 86.Rd2 Ke6 87.Kd4 Rc8 |
|
May-12-11
| | kutztown46: 1.37 at move 74 (Houdini played Rxf7).
After 74. Nxf7+:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (30-ply):
1. ± (1.29): 74...Qxf7 75.Qxf7 Rxf7 76.c4 Rfe7 77.Re3 bxc4 78.bxc4 Kg8 79.Kg3 Kf7 80.Kf4 Rh5 81.Rh3 g6 82.Kg4 Rb7 83.Rb3 Ke6 84.Rd5 a5 85.b5 Rxd5 86.exd5+ Kd6 87.Ra3 Kc5 88.Ra4 Rh7 89.Rxa5 Kxc4 90.Ra6 2. ± (1.37): 74...Rxf7 75.Rgd3 Kg8 76.Kh3 Qc8+ 77.Kg2 Qf8 78.Rd1 Re8 79.R1d2 Qe7 80.h5 f5 81.h6 Ref8 82.exf5 Rxf5 83.Rg4 R5f7 84.hxg7 Re8 85.Qh6 Rxg7 86.Rxg7+ Qxg7+ 87.Qxg7+ Kxg7 88.Kf3 Rc8 89.Rd3 Kf6 90.Ke4 |
|
May-12-11
| | kutztown46: 1.65 at move 75 (Houdini played 75...Kg8).
After 75. c4:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (27-ply):
1. ± (1.17): 75...bxc4 76.bxc4 Kg8 77.c5 a5 78.bxa5 Rxc5 79.Rgd3 Rc2+ 80.Kg3 Qb8+ 81.Kf3 Rc8 82.Qf5 Re8 83.Kg2 Qa8 84.Qd5 Qxd5 85.exd5 Ra7 86.Ra3 Rea8 87.d6 Kf7 88.Kf3 Rd7 89.h5 Ra6 90.Rd5 Ke6 91.Rad3 2. (1.65): 75...Kg8 76.c5 f5 77.Rf3 Rf6 78.Qg5 Qf7 79.Rf2 Qc7 80.Qg3 f4 81.Qg4 Ree6 82.Kh3 Qf7 83.Rf3 Qc7 84.Rf1 Qf7 85.Rf2 Kh7 86.Rf3 Re5 87.Kh2 Ree6 88.Rf2 Qc7 89.Kh3 Qf7 |
|
May-13-11
| | kutztown46: 1.13 at move 76 - a big drop.
After 76. c5:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (30-ply):
1. ± (1.13): 76...f5 77.Rf3 Rf6 78.Qg5 Qf7 79.exf5 Rfxf5 80.Rd8+ Kh7 81.Rxf5 Rxf5 82.Qe3 Rf2+ 83.Kg3 Rf6 84.Rd4 Kg8 85.Qd3 Rg6+ 86.Rg4 Rf6 87.Rg5 Qc7+ 88.Kg2 Qf7 89.Qd2 Rf3 90.Qd8+ Kh7 91.Qd4 Rf4 92.Qd3+ 2. (1.77): 76...Qe7 77.Kh3 f5 78.exf5 Rexf5 79.Qg4 Rf1 80.Qe4 Qf8 81.Rd6 R1f4 82.Qd5 Qc8+ 83.Qe6 Qxe6+ 84.Rxe6 Rxb4 85.Rxa6 Rc7 86.Rag6 Rxc5 87.Rxg7+ Kh8 88.R7g4 Rxg4 89.Kxg4 Kh7 90.Rd3 Kh6 91.Rd6+ Kg7 92.h5 |
|
May-13-11
| | kutztown46: 1.17 at move 77.
After 77. exf5:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (30-ply):
1. ± (1.17): 77...Rexf5 78.Kh3 Qa8 79.Rd1 Rf3 80.Kh2 Rf2+ 81.Kg1 Qf8 82.Qe6 Kh7 83.Qe4+ Kg8 84.Qe3 R2f5 85.Rg4 Rf2 86.Qe6 Kh8 87.Qe4 R2f6 88.Rg5 Kg8 2. (2.70): 77...Re1 78.Rg2 Qe7 79.Qg5 Qe5+ 80.Qf4 Rxf5 81.Rd8+ Kf7 82.Rd7+ Ke6 83.Qxe5+ Rfxe5 84.Rdxg7 R5e4 85.R7g6+ Ke5 86.R6g5+ Ke6 87.R2g4 R4e2+ 88.Kh3 Rb1 89.Rg6+ Kf7 90.h5 Rh1+ 91.Kg3 Rxh5 92.Rxa6 Re3+ 93.Kg2 |
|
May-13-11
| | kutztown46: 0.60 at move 78 - another big drop.
After 78. Rg2:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (28-ply):
1. ² (0.60): 78...Rf4 79.Qd3 R7f5 80.Rd2 Rh5 81.Kg1 Rfxh4 82.Rxh4 Rxh4 83.Qd8 Rh6 84.Kg2 Rg6+ 85.Kh3 Rf6 86.Qxf8+ Kxf8 87.Kg3 Ke7 88.Rd4 Rf1 89.Rd5 Rb1 90.Rd3 Rf1 91.Rf3 Rh1 92.Kg4 Rh6 93.Rf4 2. ± (0.76): 78...Rf2 79.Qe6 Kh8 80.Qg4 R2f4 81.Qh5+ Kg8 82.Qe5 Rxd4 83.Qxd4 Qe7 84.Rd2 Qe1 85.Qd8+ Rf8 86.Qd5+ Rf7 87.Kh3 Qe3+ 88.Kg2 Qe1 89.Qg5 Qf1+ 90.Kh2 Rf2+ 91.Rxf2 Qxf2+ 92.Kh3 Qf3+ 93.Kh2 Qf2+ |
|
May-13-11
| | kutztown46: At deeper ply, Stockfish's 78. Rg2 appears not to be the best. After 77...Rexf5:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (29-ply):
1. ± (1.09): 78.Qc6 Rf4 79.Qd5 Kh7 80.Rg4 Rf2+ 81.Kh3 Rb2 82.Kg3 Rbf2 83.Rd3 Qb8+ 84.Qd6 Qe8 85.Kh3 Qa8 86.Qd5 R2f3+ 87.Kg2 Rf2+ 88.Kh1 Qxd5+ 89.Rxd5 Rb2 90.Kg1 Re7 91.Rh5+ Kg8 92.Rf5 Rxb3 93.Rf2 Rc3 2. ± (0.96): 78.Kh3 Qa8 79.Rd1 Rf3 80.Kh2 Rf2+ 81.Kg1 Qf8 82.Qe6 R2f6 83.Qe3 Rf5 84.Rg5 Rf4 85.h5 Rf3 86.Qe1 Kh8 87.Rg2 R7f5 88.h6 gxh6 89.Qe4 Qf7 90.Qe2 Rf6 91.Rd8+ Kh7 92.Qe5 Rf1+ 93.Kh2 R1f5 3. ± (0.72): 78.Rg2 Rf4 79.Qd3 Rxd4 80.Qxd4 Qe7 81.Rc2 Rf3 82.Kg2 Qf7 83.Rf2 Rxf2+ 84.Qxf2 Qg6+ 85.Kf3 Qf6+ 86.Ke2 Qb2+ 87.Kf1 Qxb3 88.Qd4 Qc2 89.Ke1 Qc1+ 90.Ke2 Qb1 91.Qd5+ Kf8 4. ² (0.56): 78.Qe6 Kh8 79.Rdg4 Rf2+ 80.Kh3 Rf1 81.Qe5 Rd7 82.Kh2 Rd2+ 83.Rg2 Rxg2+ 84.Rxg2 Rf5 85.Qg3 Rf4 86.Qg5 Qf7 87.h5 Rf5 88.Qd8+ Kh7 89.Qd3 Kg8 90.h6 Rh5+ 91.Kg1 Rxh6 92.Qd8+ Kh7 93.Qd4 Qe7 |
|
May-14-11
| | kutztown46: <GE>
I have spent many hours today looking for a win for white in our game and I think my perseverance may have been rewarded. There were many tries that did not work out. I looked at 78. Qc6 (instead of Rg2), 76. Kh3 (instead of c5), 75. Kh3 (instead of c4), and 73. Kg1 (instead of Rg3). All of these initially looked hopeful, but after sliding forward, and in some cases exploring multiple sub-variations, the eval always crashed down to 0.00. However, when I tried 72. Rgd2 instead of b3, I think I have succeeded. Here is the line I found. I took what Stockfish thought was the best move for both sides in each case, at a minimum of 25-ply and often deeper than that. After <72.Rgd2 Bd7 73.Rd5 Kg8 74.Rxe5 Rxe5 75.Kg3 Qe7 76.Qf7+ Qxf7 77.Nxf7 Kxf7 78.Rxd7+ Kg6 79.Kf3 Rh5 80.Ra7 Rxh4 81.Rxa6 Rh2 82.Ke3 Rh5 83.Kd4 Kf7 84.Ra7+ Kf8 85.Ra5 Ke7 86.c4 Kd7 87.c5 Rh2 88.Rxb5 Rxb2>: 
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (30-ply):
1. (12.00): 89.Rb7+ Kc6 90.Rb6+ Kc7 91.b5 g5 92.Kd5 Rd2+ 93.Ke6 Rd4 94.Rd6 Rxe4+ 95.Kd5 Re5+ 96.Kd4 Kb7 97.Rxf6 Re7 98.Rg6 Kc7 99.Rxg5 Kb7 100.Kd5 Rd7+ 101.Ke6 Rh7 102.Ke5 Kc7 103.Kd5 Rd7+ 104.Kc4 Rf7 2. (6.22): 89.Rb6 Kc7 90.b5 g5 91.Kd5 Rd2+ 92.Ke6 Rd4 93.Rd6 Rxe4+ 94.Kd5 Re5+ 95.Kd4 Kb7 96.Rxf6 Re7 97.Rg6 Kc7 98.Rxg5 Kb7 99.Kd5 Rc7 100.Kd6 I did not play it all the way out but it looks like white has a win here. I think a key was forcing a queen exchange. Do you see any improvements for black? |
|
May-14-11
| | Golden Executive: <KT> It is really amazing you found a forced win!. I will run Houdini at deep dephts (are those a redundance words in english?) and I will post the results here later. Do you have some record about why Stockfish played 72.b3 instead of 72.Rgd2? |
|
May-18-11
| | Golden Executive: <KT> missed win for SF or for SF´s operator? |
|
May-18-11
| | kutztown46: <GE> I have no specific record of why Stockfish played 72. b3. Presumably, at low ply it was the best ranked move. After all, at that point in the game, we were only giving our engines 20 seconds or so to pick a move. |
|
May-20-11
| | Golden Executive: <I did not play it all the way out but it looks like white has a win here. I think a key was forcing a queen exchange. Do you see any improvements for black?> <KT> I think I found some improvement for black (enough to avoid a forced win for white) in your line: <72.Rgd2 Bd7 73.Rd5 Kg8 74.Rxe5 Rxe5 75.Kg3 Qe7> Instead of 75..Qe7, better is 75..Be8 (avoiding queens exchage): 75..Be8 76.Nxe8 Rxe8 77. Kf3 Re5 78. Rd7 f5 79. h5 Rxe4 80. Ra7 Re7 81. Rxa6 Qd8 82. Rd6 Qa8+ 83. Kf2 Re4 84.
Qxf5 Qa7+ 85. Kg2 Re2+ 86. Kf1 Re8 87. Qd5+ Kh7 88. Qd3+ Kg8 89. Rd8 Qf7+ 90. Kg1 Qxh5 91.Rxe8+ Qxe8 92.Qd5+ Kh8 93.Kf2 Kh7 94. b3 g6
95. c4 Qf8+ 96. Kg2 Qxb4
97. cxb5 Kg7 98. Kf1 Kf6
99. Qc6+ Ke7 100. Qc7+ Ke8
101. b6 Qb5+ 102. Ke1 Qb4+
103. Ke2 Qb5+ 104. Ke1 Qb4+
105. Kf1 Qb5+ 106. Kf2 Qd7
107. Qf4 Ke7 108. b4 Qd6
109. Qe4+ Kd7 110. Qb7+ Kd8 111. Qa8+ Kd7
All moves were sandpapered at high depths (25 to 31). After 111..Kd7:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Houdini 1.5a w32:<depth 30> 1. = (0.00): 112.Qa7+ Kc6 113.b5+ Kxb5 114.b7 Qf4+ 115.Ke2 Qe4+ 116.Kd2 Qg2+ 117.Kd1 Qf3+ 118.Kd2 Qg2+ 119.Kd1 2. = (0.00): 112.Qa4+ Kd8 113.b5 Qxb6+ 114.Kf3 Qe6 115.Kg2 Qd5+ 116.Kf2 Qd2+ 117.Kf3 Qd5+ 118.Kf4 Qf5+ 119.Kg3 Qg5+ 120.Kh3 Qf5+ 121.Qg4 Kc7 122.Qxf5 gxf5 123.Kg2 f4 124.Kf2 Kd6 125.b6 f3 126.b7 Kc7 127.Kxf3 3. = (0.00): 112.Qb7+ Kd8 113.Ke2 Qe6+ 114.Kf3 Qf5+ 115.Kg2 Qc2+ 116.Kg3 Qc3+ 117.Kf2 Qd2+ 118.Kf3 Qd1+ 119.Ke3 Qc1+ 120.Kd3 Qd1+ 121.Kc3 Qa1+ 122.Kd3 Qd1+ 123.Kc3 4. = (0.00): 112.Qh8 Qxb6+ 113.Kf3 Qb7+ 114.Kg3 Qxb4 115.Qg7+ Qe7 116.Qd4+ Kc6 117.Qa4+ Kb6 118.Qb3+ Kc6 119.Qc3+ Kd7 120.Qd3+ Kc8 121.Qxg6 Qe1+ 122.Kf4 Qc1+ 123.Kf3 Qd1+ 124.Ke3 Qe1+ 125.Kf4 Qc1+ 5. = (0.00): 112.Qg8 Qxb6+ 113.Kf3 Qxb4 114.Qh7+ Qe7 115.Qxg6 Qa3+ 116.Kg2 Qa2+ 117.Kf3 Qa3+ 118.Kg2 6. = (0.00): 112.Qa6 Qf4+ 113.Kg2 Qg4+ 114.Kh2 Qh4+ 115.Kg2 Qg4+ 116.Kh2 7. = (0.00): 112.Qa5 Qf4+ 113.Ke2 Qe4+ 114.Kd2 Qd4+ 115.Ke2 Qe4+ 116.Kd2 8. = (0.00): 112.Qe4 Qxb6+ 113.Kf1 Qa6+ 114.Kg1 Qb6+ 115.Kg2 Qc6 116.Kf3 Qxe4+ 117.Kxe4 Kc6 118.Kd4 Kb5 119.Ke4 Kxb4 9. = (0.00): 112.Qf3 Qxb6+ 113.Kg3 Qxb4 114.Qd3+ Kc7 115.Qc2+ Kd7 116.Qd3+ Kc7 10. = (0.00): 112.Qa3 Qxb6+ 113.Kg2 Qc6+ 114.Kf2 Qe6 115.Qa7+ Kc8 116.Qd4 Qf5+ 117.Kg3 Qg5+ 118.Kf2 Qf5+ 119.Kg3 11. = (0.00): 112.Qg2 Qxb6+ 113.Ke2 Qa6+ 114.Kf2 Qa2+ 115.Kg3 Qxg2+ 116.Kxg2 Ke6 117.b5 Kd6 118.Kf3 Kc5 119.Ke3 Kxb5 |
|
May-21-11
| | kutztown46: <GE> Very interesting. I will look to see if I can find a white improvement. |
|
May-24-11
| | kutztown46: <GE>
<I think I found some improvement for black (enough to avoid a forced win for white) in your line:> After 75...Be8, Stockfish agrees with your line up to white's 79th move. Here we have: 
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (29-ply):
1. (1.73): 79.Rc7 Rxe4 80.h5 Re7 81.Rxe7 Qxe7 82.Qxf5 Qb7+ 83.Ke3 Qc6 84.Qg6 Qc8 85.Kd2 Qd8+ 86.Kc2 Qe7 87.Qxa6 Qe4+ 88.Kb3 Qd5+ 89.Ka3 Qxh5 90.Qa8+ Kh7 2. (1.41): 79.Ra7 Rxe4 80.h5 Re7 81.Rxa6 Qd8 82.Rd6 Qa8+ 83.Kf2 Qa7+ 84.Rb6 Rf7 85.Kf3 Qa8+ 86.Qc6 Qd8 87.Qd6 Qg5 88.Rb8+ Kh7 89.Qg6+ Qxg6 90.hxg6+ Kxg6 91.Rxb5 Kf6 92.Rb6+ Ke5 93.Rg6 Rd7 3. ± (1.33): 79.h5 Rxe4 80.Rc7 Re7 81.Rxe7 Qxe7
4. ± (1.13): 79.Rb7 Rxe4 80.h5 Rh4 81.Ra7 Rh3+ 82.Kg2 Rh4 83.Qxa6 Kh7 84.Qg6+ Kh8 85.Kf2 Rf4+ 86.Ke2 Rh4 87.Kf3 Rh3+ I will slide forward with 79. Rc7 instead of 79. h5 and see what I get. |
|
May-28-11
| | kutztown46: <GE> Working on this game has become tedious, even painful. However, I believe I have once again found a win for white, this time in the 75...Be8 line with my 79. Rc7 improvement. Here is the line I came up with: <75...Be8 76.Nxe8 Rxe8 77.Kf3 Re5 78.Rd7 f5 79.Rc7 Rxe4 80.h5 Re7 81.Rxe7 Qxe7 82.Qxf5 Qd6 83.Ke4 Qh2 84.Qe6+ Kh8 85.Qxa6 Qxb2 86.Qxb5 Qxc3 87.Qc5 Qa3 88.Qc8+ Kh7 89.Qf8 Qc1 90.Qc5 Qe1+ 91.Kd5 Qe8 92.Kc4 Qa4 93.Kc3 Qa3+ 94.Kd2 Kh8 95.Qc8+ Kh7 96.Qc3 Qa7 97.Qd3+ Kg8 98.Qd5+ Kh7 99.b5 Qa5+ 100.Kd3 Qa3+ 101.Kc4 Qa4+ 102.Kc5 Qa3+ 103.Kc6 Qa8+ 104.Kd6 Qa3+ 105.Qc5 Qd3+ 106.Kc7 Qg3+ 107.Qd6 Qc3+ 108.Kb8 Qb3 109.b6 Qg8+ 110.Ka7 Qa2+ 111.Kb7 Qf7+ 112.Kc6 Qe8+ 113.Qd7 Qxh5 114.b7 Qg6+ 115.Kc5 Qc2+ 116.Kb6 Qb2+ 117.Qb5 Qd4+ 118.Ka6 Qf6+ 119.Qb6 Qf1+ 120.Ka7 Qf7 121.Qb1+> Stockfish's analysis of this position is as follows:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Stockfish 2.0.1 JA 64bit (30-ply):
1. (12.72): 121...Kg8 122.Qe4 Kh8 123.Qh4+ Kg8 124.Qd8+ Kh7 125.Qd3+ Kh8 126.Qc2 Qe7 127.Qc8+ Kh7 128.Qf5+ Kh8 129.Qh5+ Kg8 130.Qd5+ Kh8 131.Ka6 Qe2+ 132.Kb6 Qe3+ 133.Kc6 Qc3+ 134.Kd7 Qh3+ 135.Ke8 Qe3+ 136.Kd8 Qf4 137.Qh1+ 2. (12.96): 121...Kh8 122.Qh1+ Kg8 123.Qe4 Kh8 124.Qh4+ Kg8 125.Qd8+ Kh7 126.Qd3+ Kh8 127.Qc2 Qe7 128.Qc8+ Kh7 129.Qf5+ Kh8 130.Qh5+ Kg8 131.Qd5+ Kh8 132.Ka6 Qe2+ 133.Kb6 Qe3+ 134.Kc6 Qc3+ 135.Kd7 Qh3+ 136.Ke8 Qe3+ 137.Kd8 3. (23.71): 121...Kh6 122.Qh1+ Kg5 123.Qg1+ Kh5 124.Qd1+ Kh6 125.Qd3 g6 126.Qd2+ Kh5 127.Qd4 Kh6 128.Qe3+ Kh5 129.Ka8 Qa2+ 130.Qa7 Qg8+ 131.b8Q Qd5+ 132.Qab7 Qa2+ 133.Q8a7 Qg8+ 134.Qab8 Qa2+ 4. (88.94): 121...g6 122.Qh1+ Kg7 123.Qc6 Kh6 124.Qc2 Kg5 125.Kb6 Qf4 126.Qc3 Qd6+ 127.Ka7 Qe7 128.Qd2+ Kg4 129.Qd4+ Kg3 130.Qd3+ Kg2 131.Ka8 Qf6 132.b8Q Qa1+ 133.Qa7 Qh8+ 134.Kb7 Qb2+ 135.Kc7 Qe5+ 136.Kc6 Qe6+ 137.Kc5 It might take until the 150th move to queen the b-pawn because of the harrassment of the black queen. However, I think it will ultimately happen. Do you have another black improvement in my line or do you want to stop working on this game? |
|
May-30-11
| | Golden Executive: <KT> I did a lot of analysis with your new line, found some improvements for black but all of those finally leaded to a Nalimov six men tablebases win for white. The difference was white´s initiative. Qualitative talking, the main issue is that black king always was "cut" for the white Queen and black Queen could not do the same, so white King succesfully crossed all the board to reach his ideal position. Finally and after all of the analysis (yours and mine) I guess that with the time control used (105 minutes for each player) there is no Spacebar Master that could managed the engine to find white´s win. |
|
May-31-11
| | kutztown46: <GE> I agree with you. Houdini did stumble in the middle game which allowed Stockfish to build an advantage. However, converting that advantage to a win was very elusive and required many hours of post mortem analysis to accomplish. Given the time pressure that we were both under, it is almost impossible to conceive of forcing the win under tournament conditions. So Houdini did escape, but it turns out to have been an easy escape! |
|
Jun-09-11
| | Golden Executive: <KT> Just for the record: <Houdini did stumble in the middle game which allowed Stockfish to build an advantage>. Yes, Houdini missed the draw playing <47..Qb7> instead of <47..Nf4> and got in serious trouble !. <So Houdini did escape, but it turns out to have been an easy escape!> Yes, fortunately I did not get in panic and "calmly" let Houdini perform it`s escape. I finished my analysis/comments about our games and it´s time to say thanks to you. I really appreciated the whole experience.
You (and <AylerKupp>) easily could crushed me just "forgetting" to handicap your hardware for a few moves. As I said in the last game between you and <AylerKupp>: Great people here !
Thanks again |
|
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
