Vasyl Ivanchuk vs Vladimir Kramnik (2013)

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Vasyl Ivanchuk vs Vladimir Kramnik
World Team Championship (2013), Antalya TUR, rd 8, Dec-04
Italian Game: Classical Variation. Greco Gambit (C53) · 1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Dec-04-13		Jigsaw42: 30- Bxg3 Neat!

Dec-04-13		Penguincw: Obviously, if 31.fxg3, then 31...♖c2+ 32.♖d2 ♖xd2+ 33.♕e2 ♖xe2+ 34.♔g1 ♕f2+ 35.♔h1 and mate to follow.

Dec-04-13		visayanbraindoctor: After 34. Qxf2 Kramnik did not need to simplify into a dead drawn endgame with Qxf2+. He could have retained the Queens say with Qb7+. The endgame would have resembled Ivanchuk vs Kramnik, 2013, wherein Ivanchuk had the unenviable task of defending his exposed King against Queen and Rook in an open endgame while Kramnik's king remains relatively safe. I believe that Kramnik would have eventually won this game, just as he did the World Cup game, if he chose to avoid simplification. Kramnik would never have simplified in a similar World Cup situation. Kramnik must have noticed that Nepo had won on board 4. A draw in this game would have resulted in an immediate Russian win. So this is a classic case of team standings affecting individual board play.

Dec-05-13		visayanbraindoctor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawnl... <Queen and a rook versus a queen and a rook: Despite the equality of material, the player to move first wins in 83% of the positions (Stiller 1996:175)> If the above is true, Black is probably objectively winning before he simplified into a drawn rook endgame; or if objectively drawn the defense would be so difficult as to be humanly impossible indefinitely. The position would essentially have been <Queen and a rook versus a queen and a rook> with the additional favorable condition that Black's pawns would be shielding his King from checks. Kramnik almost certainly understands this. As mentioned above, Team standings probably was the main reason why he drew immediately after Nepo's win. Perhaps, the Russian coach may even have told him so.

Dec-05-13		Olavi: No. In the previous game Ivanchuk had the huge additional problem of the black a-pawn, that made it so difficult. This is completely drawn, with no problems whatsoever. Stiller's results actually tell us that the general case Q+R vs. Q+R is a draw. The reason for the 83% is that it's so immensely tactical (compared to e.g. B+N vs B+N) that when the pieces are placed randomly, something usually drops off. The meaningful statistic would be something like "which percentage of the positions, where within (say) 8 ply no mate or material gain happens, are wins?"

Dec-05-13		visayanbraindoctor: <Olavi: No. In the previous game Ivanchuk had the huge additional problem of the black a-pawn, that made it so difficult. This is completely drawn, with no problems whatsoever. Stiller's results actually tell us that the general case Q+R vs. Q+R is a draw. The reason for the 83% is that it's so immensely tactical (compared to e.g. B+N vs B+N) that when the pieces are placed randomly, something usually drops off.> Thanks for the clarification.

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