Apr-16-12
 | | LIFE Master AJ: I sure would like to find out more about this player ... |
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| Apr-16-12 | | qqdos: Well try this link http://www.365chess.com/players/Pav.... He appears to be an Israeli born in 1964 making him a senile 5-year-old when he did (or didn't) play this game. I think you'll have to look at the other spellings of his name! |
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Apr-17-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: Obviously - that is not the same player!
A very simple explanation ... just like in the U.S.A. Pick up ANY phone book in any large city, and look up "John Smith," you will find an almost countless number of them. ("Pavel" is a very common name both in Russia and Israel.) Anyone, with even an ounce of common sense, would be able to figure that much out. |
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| Apr-17-12 | | qqdos: It is the player to whom this game is attributed wrongly and unjustly and that needs to be corrected. |
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Apr-17-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: Again, you stste that this has been attributed to the wrong player ... but you can't prove it. However, its OBVIOUS that if one P. Yartsev was born in 1964 or 1965 ... he did not play this game. This is all based on the P. Yartsev (HERE) is the the same P. Yartsev for which you gave a link ... and you can't prove that either. You are basically making an incorrect assumption. There is probably another P. Yartsev out there, and he may be the one that played this game. |
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Apr-17-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie... Many Pavel Yartsev's out there. In one Russian phone listing, I found like 60 near/around Moscow. |
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Apr-17-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: Please note that there is no bio ... or any other info given for this player. |
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| Apr-17-12 | | JoergWalter: From the master's web page:
<Pavel Yartsev was not as strong as his opponent, but may not have been allowed to play as much ... as he was Jewish. He later immigrated to Israel, where he lives today.> Email him, ask him about the game. |
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| Apr-17-12 | | JoergWalter: <LIFE Master AJ: Obviously - that is not the same player! A very simple explanation ... just like in the U.S.A. Pick up ANY phone book in any large city, and look up "John Smith," you will find an almost countless number of them. ("Pavel" is a very common name both in Russia and Israel.) Anyone, with even an ounce of common sense, would be able to figure that much out.> very self critical |
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| Apr-17-12 | | qqdos: <JW> would you like to estimate the number of chess playing Pavel Yartsevs there are in Israel, quite apart from the spelling anomaly? Maybe <cro777> can help to ascertain the real first name of Jarcev a practising chess player, probably in the Russian Federation in 1969/70.. |
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| Apr-17-12 | | cro777: Yakov Damsky in his book about chess aesthetics (in Russian) commented on the game Ostapenko - Yartsev (Остапенко — Ярцев). He said that they were not even masters. For him the game is an example that "ordinary" players in an "ordinary" tournament (one of thousand similar tournaments) can sometimes create a chess masterpiece. There are no data about Yartsev's first name and his opponent was Alexander (and not Dmitry) Ostapenko. |
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| Apr-18-12 | | qqdos: <cro777> thnx for that. So the title of this game needs to be amended to Alexander Ostapenko senior (to avoid confusion with the younger Alexander) vs Jarcev (or in cyrillic?!). What is the best/accepted transliteration of Jarcev? Another alternative is to describe Black as Yartsev/Jarcev! Not a quantum leap to frighten the horses but it would set the record straight. |
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| Apr-18-12 | | cro777: The best transliteration of Ярцев (or Jarcev) is Yartsev. Pavel Yartsev (born 1964), Chess Federation Israel, has nothing to do with the notable game Alexander Ostapenko - Yartsev. According to Damsky, in the Soviet Union there were thousands of players like Yartsev and many thousands of chess events like the one from that game. We even don't know Yartsev's first name. Alexander Ostapenko was the better player. We have his other games played in 1969/1970. |
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Apr-18-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: So - you are saying that the Informant got it wrong? (Possible, I guess ...) |
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| Apr-18-12 | | qqdos: There are different systems of transliteration from Russian into Roman - e.g. Yusupov/Jussupow. Informant in 1970 chose Jarcev and Vladimir Akopian in his 1996 [B89] Monograph (admittedly for Informant) also chose the latter spelling. Perhaps CG.com have a different protocol on transliteration. Since Yartsev has become associated with this game the amendment Yartsev (Jarcev) is both explanatory and will preserve continuity. Hope that is agreeable. |
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| Apr-18-12 | | cro777: < LIFE Master AJ: I can show you literally hundreds of games from the Informant where one player played perhaps a super-brilliant game, but yet never became a well-known, "big time" GM.> Very good observation. The game Alexander Ostapenko - Yartsev (USSR 1969) is an indicative example. |
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| Apr-18-12 | | cro777: <qqdos: There are different systems of transliteration from Russian into Roman...Since Yartsev has become associated with this game the amendment Yartsev (Jarcev) is both explanatory and will preserve continuity.> I agree. Different systems of romanization of the name <Ярцев> are possible: The Informant applied the scientific transliteration based on the Czech alphabet: Я=ja ц=c Jarcev
I prefer the BGN/PCGN system which is relatively intuitive for Anglophones to read and pronounce: Я=ya ц=ts Yartsev. |
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| Apr-19-12 | | qqdos: <thnx again. One further question, did your researches give ELO ratings for both or either of the players and do you know where CG.com found those shown above? |
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| Apr-19-12 | | cro777: <qqdos> They were relatively unknown players (there is no further information about them). CG.com's attribution is wrong. It seems that the game Ostapenko -Yartsev was rather popular in correspondence chess. Position after 18...Be6
click for larger view
The same position arised in five correspondence chess games (in the period from 1971 to 1995). Obviously, the rook sacrifice <19.Rxg7+> occurred in all of them. Moreover, two years later (1971) Poland's correspondence chess players <Jan Widera> and <Zygmunt Jaksa> repeated the game Ostapenko - Yartsev until move 35. Position after 35...Qb5
click for larger view
Instead of <36.Bb4+> Widera played <36.Bb6+> and after 36...Kxb6 37.Qxb5+ axb5 38.axb3 Jaksa resigned. |
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| Apr-19-12 | | qqdos: <cro777> fascinating. Thnx. I am not surprised Jaksa resigned but astonished that he would want to repeat that many moves. Better bets to diverge from the original game might have been (a) 31...Qe4! which Boleslavsky advocated but was shot down by Kasparov/Nikitin in their 1983 book on Sicilian ...e6 and ...d6 Systems; or (b) 32...Rc5, as indicated in some of the earliest postings above of 2003 because 32...Ka5?? was a quatum leap blunder. |
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| Apr-19-12 | | JoergWalter: @ <cro777> and <qqdos> you guys are a real treasure. thanks a lot for communicating your findings. simply amazing |
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| Apr-19-12 | | cro777: And that's not all.
At the Dhaka BAN 35th Men Champioship in Dhaka (Bangladesh) <Reefat Bin-Sattar> and <Ahmed Jamal> repeated the game Ostapenko - Yartsev until move 20. Position after 20...Rfc8
click for larger view
Here, instead of <21.Rxg7+>, Reefat played <21.Bxe4> and the game continued 21. Bxe4 f5 22. Qh6 Rc7 23. Bd4 Raa7 24. Qxe6+ Kf8 25. Bxg7+ Rxg7 26. Qxd6+ Rge7 27. Bd5 1-0 Reefat Bin-Sattar is a Grandmaster from Bangladesh (the third grandmaster that emerged from the country). He was champion of Bangladesh six times and represented Bangladesh in seven Chess Olympiads, from 1994 to 2006. |
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Kibitzing
