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| Apr-02-20 | | optimal play: <Big Pawn: <OP: Aren't liberty and freedom inherently good?> No.> What about their opposites, subjugation and captivity? <<op: How was the Enlightenment distinctly anti-Christian?> It's a cross between humanism and scientism.> It could be posited that humanism and scientism were two consequences of the Enlightenment (among others) but not many would consider it the bastard child of them. <<op: Why do you think God continued to tolerate Satan's presence, even after his rebellion, as described in chapters 1&2 of Job?> You'd have to ask God any "why" questions I think. My guess would be that God uses Satan to sift the wheat.> As in the case of this pandemic? <<op: optimal play: <Big Pawn: If you study the philosophy of the time around the Englightenment, before and after, it's clear that it's anti God.> Can you give examples?> I think it requires delving deep into the philosophical work of the time. It's not something you can just cut and paste a paragraph of.> Okay, but it's a pretty sweeping statement to say that the Enlightenment is anti-God, especially when you consider many great thinkers of the Enlightenment were at least theists. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | optimal play: <Big Pawn: <thegoodanarchist: <optimal play: <Big Pawn: Maybe some make a distinction between left and liberal but in the US, it's basically the same thing.> Prominent American radio talk show host, columnist and author, Dennis Prager does not think liberalism and leftism is the same thing. He lists six major distinctions between the attitudes held by liberals as opposed to the attitudes held by leftists: 1. Race
2. Capitalism
3. Nationalism
4. View of America
5. Free Speech
6. Western Civilisation > >
I don't agree with Prager on a lot of things. God doesn't even find His place on this short list of six issues, yet, your belief in God or lack thereof is fundamental to any and all worldviews. Anyone can list those little issues, like race and such, and it informs no one of anything they haven't already thought of or realized, but bringing it all back to the root cause, which is rebellion against God, hopefully brings the kind of insight that I want others to share here as well. Everything about liberal culture is an expression of antiChristianity and it is antiChrist.> What are some of the other things you don't agree with Prager about? So if it's impossible to be a liberal who believes in God, is it possible to be a conservative who doesn't believe in God? If a liberal can't be a Christian, can a conservative be a non-Christian? |
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| Apr-02-20 | | optimal play: <thegoodanarchist: < optimal play: <Big Pawn: Maybe some make a distinction between left and liberal but in the US, it's basically the same thing.>
Prominent American radio talk show host, columnist and author, Dennis Prager does not think liberalism and leftism is the same thing. He lists six major distinctions between the attitudes held by liberals as opposed to the attitudes held by leftists: 1. Race
2. Capitalism
3. Nationalism
4. View of America
5. Free Speech
6. Western Civilisation >
Can you name a US liberal politician who isn't aligned with Leftists on #1,3, and 4? Retired ones, like Joe Lieberman, don't count.> Who's Joe Lieberman? |
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| Apr-02-20 | | Big Pawn: <Count: While it is true that the Enlightenment, and some of its most prominent representatives, was anti-Christian in its polemic against the Church (take some of the French revolutionaries, for example), the way Liberalism developed in the 19th century I don't see such a clear juxtaposition between it and Christian morality.> The Enlightenment pushed humanistic ideas. Humanism and Christianity are juxtaposed. In a nutshell, the Enlightenment saw <reason> as the way to know truth, and humans could <reason> their way to a right morality without resorting to old superstitious biblical beliefs. In this way, humans were <liberated> from the God of the bible. We don't need God anymore because we have <reason>. Once this little bit of yeast worked its way through all of the loaf, over the next few hundred years, we ended up with same sex marriage, abortion on demand, banishing the ten commandments, silencing Christians in the public square and drag queen story hour for the children. That is, we, as a culture, have replaced the <old superstitious> biblical morals written for nomadic people who live thousands of years ago with new, modern, <reasoned> and <human> values of today. That is the juxtaposition, the trajectory and the conclusion (modern day). The personal attestations of religious faith of the founding fathers has no bearing on the fact that liberalism, the ugliness that it is, came from the enlightenment. But even the Enlightenment isn't the real point of my philosophical thought this week. The real point is to realize that Lucifer is the very first liberal. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | Big Pawn: < optimal play: <Big Pawn: <OP: Aren't liberty and freedom inherently good?> No.> What about their opposites, subjugation and captivity?> They are not inherently bad.
<<<op: Why do you think God continued to tolerate Satan's presence, even after his rebellion, as described in chapters 1&2 of Job?> You'd have to ask God any "why" questions I think. My guess would be that God uses Satan to sift the wheat.> As in the case of this pandemic?> Not really. I was thinking more along the lines that Satan exposes the true from the untrue for God. <<<op: optimal play: <Big Pawn: If you study the philosophy of the time around the Englightenment, before and after, it's clear that it's anti God.> Can you give examples?> I think it requires delving deep into the philosophical work of the time. It's not something you can just cut and paste a paragraph of.> Okay, but it's a pretty sweeping statement to say that the Enlightenment is anti-God, especially when you consider many great thinkers of the Enlightenment were at least theists> It's an accurate statement. That's why their was a reaction to the Enlightenment, a critique of reason. The Enlightenment. The Enlightenment is what put atheism in the mainstream eventually, and atheism is in harmony with humanism and the sovereign status of reason. By the end of the Enlightenment period, it had come to a critical point where <reason> and the truth it afforded us was at odds with a number of Christian concepts, such as the soul, miracles and a personal relationship with God. That's why Kant came along, in reaction to all of this, with his Critique of Pure Reason, trying to demonstrate that reason alone wasn't enough for true knowledge to obtain, and that reason and <faith> were not incompatible, but actually needed each other. The point is this was Kant's reaction to the crisis the Enlightenment found itself in, which clearly implies its antiChristian stance. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | Big Pawn: <optimal play: So if it's impossible to be a liberal who believes in God, is it possible to be a conservative who doesn't believe in God?> Yes.
On Satan and liberalism.
Satan rejected God's rules and <reasoned> his own way to his own morality. Satan is about satisfying his ego, satisfying himself, even if it contradicts what God wants. This is liberalism today. God wants us to be celibate until marriage
Liberals want sex anywhere anytime with anyone.
God detests homosexuality.
Liberals have a special place in their culture for homosexuality. God detests those who shed innocent blood.
Libs love abortion.
God believes in the death penalty.
Libs abhor the death penalty.
God believes in nations.
Libs believe in open borders.
God hates gluttony.
Libs hate fat shaming instead.
God is an authoritarian.
Libs hate authority.
God wants us to do what's right.
Libs say, "do what makes you feel good"
God loves Israel.
Libs hate Israel and love Palestine.
God says he'll bless the nation that helps Israel
Libs curse the nations that help Israel.
These are all the things Satan wants, because he is in rebellion against God, and liberals relish all of these things because they are in rebellion against God. Satan was the first liberal. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | optimal play: <Big Pawn: <optimal play: <Big Pawn: <OP: Aren't liberty and freedom inherently good?> No.> What about their opposites, subjugation and captivity?> They are not inherently bad.> So neither liberty nor captivity are inherently good or bad? Is anything inherently good or bad?
<I was thinking more along the lines that Satan exposes the true from the untrue for God.> In what way?
<The Enlightenment is what put atheism in the mainstream> The "Fathers" of the Enlightenment are considered to be Isaac Newton and John Locke, both Christians. If atheism was one of the by-products of the Enlightenment, that doesn't necessarily mean the Enlightenment itself was anti-Christian or even anti-God. <Satan rejected God's rules and <reasoned> his own way to his own morality. Satan is about satisfying his ego, satisfying himself, even if it contradicts what God wants. This is liberalism today.> How does an angelic being satisfy his ego? How does he reason his own way to his own morality? <Satan was the first liberal.> Apart from the Book of Job, why do you think Satan is only mentioned twice in the entire Old Testament? |
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| Apr-02-20 | | thegoodanarchist: < optimal play:
Can you name a US liberal politician who isn't aligned with Leftists on #1,3, and 4? Retired ones, like Joe Lieberman, don't count.> Who's Joe Lieberman?>
A retired US politician. He was Al Gore's running mate for VP in 2000 |
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| Apr-02-20 | | Big Pawn: <op: So neither liberty nor captivity are inherently good or bad?> Correct.
<The "Fathers" of the Enlightenment are considered to be Isaac Newton and John Locke, both Christians.> It was only Newton's success in the natural sciences that inspired what was to later become the Enlightenment, an era that slowly evolved over 150-180 years. The labels that some thinkers had applied to them (Christian, Deist, Atheist) have nothing to do with the philosophical school of thought know as the Enlightenment. <How does an angelic being satisfy his ego? > By doing things his way instead of God's way. By seeking to make himself like The Most High. But this is off topic, so I won't follow up with it right now. <<Satan was the first liberal.> Apart from the Book of Job, why do you think Satan is only mentioned twice in the entire Old Testament?> The word <Satan> may only be mentioned twice, but <Satan> is referred to many more times than that, but this is off topic so I won't follow up with it right now. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | Big Pawn: I think I made my case for <Satan> being the first liberal. I showed how liberals set themselves against God in so many ways, and how Satan also sets himself against God (by tempting people to do these things) as described in the Bible in the same ways. If God and Satan were here now, and a homo-lib said, "I like having sex with other men. Is that okay?", God would say that he finds it detestable, while Satan would say, "Did God REALLY say that you couldn't have sex with other men?" If a woman wanted to cheat on her husband and asked if it was okay, God would say, "Adultery is a sin" Satan would say, <Poor thing. Look, you don't deserve to be miserable, do you? Of course not! You only live once! Eat, drink and be merry, because tomorrow you may die" God might say, "Be Holy, as I am Holy"
Satan might say, "I'm a humanist! I want you to be free from His holy tyranny! I'm man's friend, not his enemy. God is a jealous, petty, cruel person. God wanted me to worship Him! The nerve! I am the most beautiful, the most wise, the most powerful of created beings. I deserve to have things my way. I deserve to eat my fill. I put myself first, not God. Why is that a problem?" We can see that libs have the same sentiments as Satan. They sacrifice their babies as a sacrifice to themselves. They say, "kill this child, so that I may enjoy pleasure." This is to make themselves their own God, complete with sacrifices. Their own pleasure is paramount, not righteousness, just like Satan. Satan is a liberal. Liberals are children of Satan. He is their father. To them, God is foolishness. Liberals exalt themselves above God, just like Satan. They cast off God's morality and set up their own in its place, putting themselves above God. They put themselves above God (they think, like Satan) by judging God in their hearts. "God is evil for allow pain and suffering" In every way, liberals are in spiritual harmony with Satan, and Satan was the first liberal. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | Count Wedgemore: <Big Pawn: <optimal play: <Big Pawn: <OP: Aren't liberty and freedom inherently good?> No.> What about their opposites, subjugation and captivity?> They are not inherently bad.> Has <al wazir> hacked <BP>'s account? :) |
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| Apr-02-20 | | diceman: Heh, heh:
<The Malaysian government was forced to apologize after its Women's Development Department published a series of sexist "tips" to help deal with the ongoing coronavirus lockdown, including advising women to continue to wear makeup and to "avoid nagging."> <One of the biggest criticisms against the government body charged with supporting women appeared to be that it was ignoring concerns about a rise in domestic violence that may accompany stay-at-home orders, and instead focusing on things like how women should dress.The Malaysian All Women's Action Society called on the Women's Development Department to stop its sexist messaging and to focus on helping domestic violence survivors.> |
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| Apr-02-20 | | technical draw: To start the study of the end times (eschatology) we start off with "the question". In every Jewish home during the passover seder the youngest male child is supposed to ask a question. If the child is shy or hesitant, the father would ask, "David, don't you have a question to ask?"
The child then asks, "Why is this day different from all other days? This prompting by the father can also be construed as a prompting to the disciples when they asked: "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (Mat.24:3) Noticed that Jesus does not volunteer this information but waits until asked. I believe the the disciples (or at least the one asking the question) was prompted by God himself to ask the question. Every Jew knows the Passover story so why the question? That will be answered in a future post. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | thegoodanarchist: < Big Pawn:
Satan might say, "I'm a humanist! I want you to be free from His holy tyranny! I'm man's friend, not his enemy. > Surprisingly enough, that is EXACTLY how Lucifer has been portrayed in a Hollywood movie, of all places! Famous line of Al Pacino, from <The Devil's Advocate> (1997): <I'm a friend of man!> Here's the movie:
<https://www.imdb.com/title/tt011897...> |
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| Apr-02-20 | | Count Wedgemore: Joking about the end times is called eschatological humor. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | optimal play: <<thegoodanarchist: <optimal play: Can you name a US liberal politician who isn't aligned with Leftists on #1,3, and 4? Retired ones, like Joe Lieberman, don't count.> Who's Joe Lieberman?>
A retired US politician. He was Al Gore's running mate for VP in 2000> Thanks <tga>
So to answer your question, no I can't name a US liberal politician who isn't aligned with Leftists on #1,3, and 4 But then I probably couldn't name too many US liberal politicians other than Haggy Pelosi, Crazy Bernie and Sleepy Joe. <thegoodanarchist: <Big Pawn: Satan might say, "I'm a humanist! I want you to be free from His holy tyranny! I'm man's friend, not his enemy.>Surprisingly enough, that is EXACTLY how Lucifer has been portrayed in a Hollywood movie, of all places! Famous line of Al Pacino, from <The Devil's Advocate> (1997): <I'm a friend of man!>> I thought that movie was okay, although a bit silly. Keanu Reeves: "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven", is that it? Al Pacino: Why not? I'm here on the ground with my nose in it since the whole thing began. I've nurtured every sensation man's been inspired to have. I cared about what he wanted and I never judged him. Why? Because I never rejected him. In spite of all his imperfections, I'm a fan of man! I'm a humanist. Maybe the last humanist. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | technical draw: <Big Pawn>. Your forum gets a lot of visitors which make my posts on eschatology disappear pretty quick. So I'll be moving the study to my forum. Thanks for the good will. |
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| Apr-02-20 | | Big Pawn: Right on cue!
<truepacifism: Https://thesatanictemple.com I guess the Devil has taken over my mind, but these people are much more moral than the wing nut Trump worshippers on this page> Just one of thousands of examples I've seen throughout my life. In their hearts, <Libs> love Satan. They harmonize with his and his ways. They are a man after his own heart. Satan is the pied piper of the libs. |
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| Apr-03-20 | | thegoodanarchist: <I'm a friend of man!> Or, maybe not. Maybe it was <I'm a fan of man>. My memory isn't what it once was. |
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| Apr-03-20 | | thegoodanarchist: And now, to see that's how <OP> remembers it, and he seems to remember it well. |
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| Apr-03-20 | | thegoodanarchist: <Big Pawn: Right on cue! <<<truepacifism: Https://thesatanictemple.com I guess the Devil has taken over my mind, but these people are much more moral than the wing nut Trump worshippers on this page>>> Just one of thousands of examples I've seen throughout my life. > I am not sure why he thinks <truepacifism> means insulting people who don't agree with him. Maybe his user name should be <trueinstigation>. |
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| Apr-03-20 | | optimal play: <thegoodanarchist: And now, to see that's how <OP> remembers it, and he seems to remember it well.> Nah, I just checked the Quotes on the link you provided. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAR...
<Al Pacino's speech about God (The Devil's Advocate)> |
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| Apr-03-20 | | diceman: <thegoodanarchist:
I am not sure why he thinks <truepacifism> means insulting people who don't agree with him.> Libs are liars.
He probably uses it to put himself above other liberals. He's at the "John Lennon" level. How'd that work for John? It kinda reminds me of nok.
He likes his socialism from capitalism.
TP likes his pacifism as long as there is someone else to fight his battle for him. |
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| Apr-03-20 | | Big Pawn: < thegoodanarchist: < Big Pawn: Satan might say, "I'm a humanist! I want you to be free from His holy tyranny! I'm man's friend, not his enemy. > Surprisingly enough, that is EXACTLY how Lucifer has been portrayed in a Hollywood movie, of all places! Famous line of Al Pacino, from <The Devil's Advocate> (1997): <I'm a friend of man!> Here's the movie:>
Pretty cool! |
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| Apr-04-20 | | thegoodanarchist: Well, today I had my own "right on cue" moment, and our closet lib on Rogoff walked right into it: While I was writing this post here:
Kenneth S Rogoff (kibitz #422948) <kp> published this post here: Kenneth S Rogoff (kibitz #422947) After I gloated here:
Kenneth S Rogoff (kibitz #422949) our closet lib disappeared for a while. |
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Kibitzing
