|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 22 OF 54 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jun-01-09
 | | IMlday: When several anonymous, supposedly individual posters, all uniformly misunderstand the basic principle of 'burden of proof', then a natural suspicion arises than they (plural?) serve the same script. In a civilized justice system the prosecution goes first and must try to prove their case without fishing for information they do not have. Bold assertions do not make a case however loudly or repeatedly declared. To learn more about burden of proof (without using wiki;)
try this experiment:
Go to a bookstore,
seize a copy of Titus Andronicus,
loudly claim it is a crappy play that Shakespeare couldn't possibly have written,
demand it be withdrawn from sale,
argue that having his name on the cover is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary proof,
threaten to sue,
have a chorus of accomplices repeat your bold assertions,
inspire some drunks to vandalize the store in the middle of the night,
and when the store withdraws the book
then smugly claim victory,
claim the impossibility of buying the book clearly proves you were right all along. Reality check: It is ordinary that the author's name on the cover is correct.
It is extraordinary that criminal forgery has occurred. |
|
| Jun-01-09 | | MageOfMaple: Funny how when the conversation was dying, <IMlday> was <right there> to keep it going. The name on the cover of a book without either a copyright or a named publisher is more trustworthy than the word of Bobby's friends. Uh huh. Let's return to our regularly scheduled lives, people, and let Mr. Day go back to reading his beloved book and discussing it with the ducks. Soooo... How about that Alexander Alekhine? |
|
Jun-01-09
 | | Stonehenge: <Go to a bookstore,
seize a copy of Titus Andronicus>
Why not seize a copy of M61MG? |
|
| Jun-01-09 | | MrMelad: <IMlday: When several anonymous, supposedly individual posters, all uniformly misunderstand the basic principle of 'burden of proof', then a natural suspicion arises than they (plural?) serve the same script.>
You should read the sentence you wrote yourself and direct it towards yourself. It is you, Joshka, Trice, hackTrice and some other sock-puppets who goes against the consensus! <In a civilized justice system the prosecution goes first and must try to prove their case without fishing for information they do not have. Bold assertions do not make a case however loudly or repeatedly declared.> The bold assertions are on your part having associated the dead Fischer with a book his friends and colleges deny he wrote!! The burden on proof is on those who claim the assertion! You appear out of the blue with your extra-ordinary claim that the most exiting book in chess has been released while the author deny writing it, his friends deny his involvement and all evidence points to someone else writing it, so the burden of proof lie on you, it is that simple! Do not confuse, Mr. IM, the assertion that Ed Trice is behind M61MG with the assertion that Fischer wrote M61MG - the first is ours to prove (since it links someone with criminal activity) the second is yours (since you make the assertion)! We have bothered much to provide the evidence of Trice's involvement so that it too has reached a consensus, in other words we have already proved Ed Trice involvement, while there is not a single shred of evidence that Fischer wrote the book. Not only that we don't have the book, only you and SEVERAL other people have it. So, Mr. Day, with all due respect for your chess skills, Please stop waisting our time with your "professional" opinion and scan the book already or stop referring to it otherwise you could be held suspicious of promoting it for finical gain. You have linked your reputation with Ed Trice Mr. Day, it is your fault. BTW, addressing one's argument and putting him on the ignore list is rather idiotic, please don't run away this time. |
|
Jun-01-09
 | | chancho: This is reasoning at it's finest, courtesy of <ughaibu>: <Mar-13-09>
<Robert James Fischer> <ughaibu: There's a book, heavily associated with Trice and the contents aren't copyrighted.> <1) apparently Fischer has denied authorship in the Icelandic press, this is a simple matter; do you give greater credence to Trice or the Icelandic press?> <2) Fischer was a guy who even tried to copyright his game scores, he was up in arms about an unauthorised republication of M60MG, again this is a simple matter; do you seriously believe that such a guy would release a book uncopyrighted?> <Even as terminally raving a Fischer-nut as RookFile can see the implications, that there exist at least two people who still claim that Fischer was probably the author is frightening. Joshka and LMDay, what the hell is wrong with you?> |
|
| Jun-01-09 | | Jim Bartle: Mr. Day: I disagree with you about the authorship of the book, but I have to admit your last post was pretty piercing. |
|
| Jun-01-09 | | GeauxCool: <IMlDAY> If you really believe that Fischer is the author, then send a duplicate copy to chess historian Ed Winter for scrutinized examination. Put the question to that white-squared bishop. Shakespeare Forgeries, LOUDLY PROCLAIMED
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irelan...
<...poet-laureate <Henry James Pye pronounced them genuine>...Excitement over the biographical and literary significance of the find turned to acrimony when it was charged that the documents were forgeries. Edmond Malone, the greatest Shakespeare scholar of his time, <showed conclusively that the language, orthography, and handwriting were not those of the times and persons to which they were credited>, and William Henry Ireland, the supposed discoverer, confessed to the fraud.> |
|
Jun-01-09
 | | chancho: http://www.chessbase.com/news/2008/...
If the guy next to Fischer in the above photo said Fischer did not write the book, I don't care if it's an IM, a Grandmaster, or the Grand Poobah saying it was written by Fischer. The bottom line is that someone very close to Fischer said <<he did not write it.>>
Now if someone like Miyoko comes along and says otherwise, than that's a whole new ballgame... |
|
| Jun-01-09 | | Jim Bartle: Does anybody remember the best-selling novel "Naked Came the Stranger" by Penelope Ashe, from around 1970? OK, probably not. It was one of those steamy novels popular back then, such as Jacqueline Susann and Harold Robbins. "Naked Came the Stranger" hit #1 on the bestseller lists. Then it was revealed that it was written by a group of reporters at Newsday, and was a hoax. |
|
Jun-01-09
 | | chancho: The photo of Trice wearing a M61MG book cover t-shirt went poof!
Anyone has it to post here? |
|
| Jun-01-09 | | capatal: Why, if the loquacious <Ed Trice> is truly innocent - is Trice (quietly) running scared, (like his butt is on fire), from his own forum and cg.com member questions and discussion about <Trice>'s documented role in the M61MG book? |
|
| Jun-01-09 | | MageOfMaple: <capatal: Why, if the loquacious <Ed Trice> is truly innocent - is Trice (quietly) running scared, (like his butt is on fire), from his own forum and cg.com member questions and discussion about <Trice>'s documented role in the M61MG book?> A very piercing question, which Mr. Day will answer after huffing an adequate amount of paint to open his mind to the possibilities. |
|
Jun-01-09
 | | chancho: This stuff is better than a sitcom:
http://www.gamesforum.ca/showthread... |
|
| Jun-01-09 | | sharro: <Reality check: It is ordinary that the author's name on the cover is correct. It is extraordinary that criminal forgery has occurred.> Reality check for you: It is ordinary that author's names are on books published legitemately. It is extraordinary that books are available only through "Joshka". |
|
| Jun-01-09 | | sharro: <chancho: The photo of Trice wearing a M61MG book cover t-shirt went poof! Anyone has it to post here?> http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/... |
|
Jun-01-09
 | | chancho: <Chess Enterprises> <107 Crosstree Road
Moon Township PA 15108- 2607>
<The most unique of small American chess publishers is surely Bob Dudley's Chess Enterprises. A full-time college professor, Dudley has published chess books for two decades in his spare time. For many years, a Chess Enterprise book was the quintessential labor of love, in that Bob and his wife would spread the pages about a room and laboriously hand-assemble each and every copy. Then he would sell the finished copy out of his garage for prices so low (typically $3.00 to $5.00) that other chess publishers would gnash their teeth. I would be astonished if Bob ever made any money on these efforts; but he continues to put out books at a steady pace and, as with Chess Digest, the production quality of Chess Enterprises books has risen dramatically over the last five years. Ultimately, the prices rose as well; Silman and Donaldson's three superb volumes on the Slav, for example, 150-60 pages each of small-print analysis and prose, compelled the reader to part with frightening sums like $8.95 and $12.95.To an even greater extent than the publishers mentioned above, Dudley has had a hard time saying 'no' to potential authors. Occasionally, he has has therefore served as a sort of non-profit vanity press, putting out a few books which leave you wondering how long the author has known the rules. But at the same time, the Chess Enterprises list has always included books of real value. Aside from the Donaldson and Silman efforts> http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/jwa... |
|
Jun-02-09
 | | chancho: From IM Day's page:
<Ed Trice:I met him at the World Open, so I was surprised he would say anything about the book involving me. He said he received an email from "me", and after further discussion just the other day, we both agree that the person who emailed him was NOT me, bit someone claiming to be me.> This from the NYTimes:
< Dr. Brady explained that he had given a lecture at the Marshall Chess Club on West 10th Street in Manhattan, and a video of the lecture was posted on YouTube. In response,> <a friend of Mr. Fischer's <<<called>>> Dr. Brady and asked him if he would help Mr. Fischer with a project: reissuing and updating his book, "My 60 Memorable Games," to be called "My 61 Memorable Games."> <Frank Brady: This friend asked me if I would help, and I said that I don’t think that Bobby wants my help.> Trice's first post implies that someone sent Brady an e-mail pretending to be him regarding the book, but in the NYTimes link, Brady said the person <called him> So it appears to have been by phone, not e-mail. |
|
| Jun-02-09 | | GeauxCool: Bits:
Trice's Fake Tournament Winner:
<checkandmate_2000@yahoo.com> Trice's Fake Fischer Contact:
<jinky_ong_2000@yahoo.com.ph> Yahoo! Philippines' email registration:
https://edit.yahoo.com/registration... |
|
| Jun-02-09 | | GeauxCool: Pieces:
<USACheckers.com, cached:
by EdTrice on Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:58 am
You are full of crap.
In 1989 I played in my last chess tournament, and with 2 wins, 3 draws, and 4 losses in the Under 2400 section, my rating hit bottom at 2207. I never played chess after this... <Since you must resort to lying to establish ficticious versions of things that never took place>, I will never reply to any more of your posts. Have a great life.
--Ed>
http://tinyurl.com/2ry5ln |
|
| Jun-02-09 | | MageOfMaple: No, don't come back <Ed Trice>, and as long as people aren't promoting the book, we should just <let it go>. There comes a point where continued discussion is just free publicity and continues to do nothing but keep the story alive. |
|
Jun-03-09
 | | chancho: The way he prepared for Capablanca that was impressive.
He left no stone unturned in his preparations, and he defeated Capa by suppressing his combinative tendencies and employing Capa's style of play.
I still believe he did not want to play Capa in a rematch, but the arguments that say otherwise are there. |
|
| Jun-03-09 | | robmtchl: Answer to ;
<<Challenge #1: try analyzing even 1 Fischer game, with 10 pages of valid variations, using a computer if you want, inserting fresh comments that make sense to (and enlighten) expert and above chess players. And be sure to throw a couple new position diagrams in along the way. Insert some deep-history comments that fit the times the game was played during. What are the odds you are going to fool any given chess writer with your comments?Keep track of how long that took you. Multiply by 60. What kind of minimum timeline we looking at?> >You assume there was a complete rewrite of the work. That is not the case. How you do it is you scan the document into a pdf file and run spell and grammar check. Make the suggested changes. Next you run a good chess engine against the games and "pad" the previous analysis with computer insight and overly flowery language. Now Trice claims to do 40 pages per night. 800 pages divided by 40 pages per night comes up to 20 days. Proving to me that the entire work could be done by one person in 60 days. Trice has boasted to me privatly in the past of a typing ability of 120 GWPM. Now why would I multiply my number by 60 as Pinned Piece suggested? That seems to be an arbritary number with no basis in fact. I have now answered question #1 and proven my point. Argument closed and won by me. |
|
Jun-03-09
 | | chancho: <robmtchl>
<May-28-09>
<PinnedPiece: <<GeauxCool>Keep track of how long that took you. Multiply by 60. What kind of minimum timeline we looking at?> >
<I think a fair point has been made--by you (I'm too lazy to research it!) or Chancho that at least half the book was already written. Let's say, multiply by 30. If this isn't a full-time job, I would estimate half a year. (one game a week, approx. --Fritz needs time.)> |
|
| Jun-03-09 | | Jim Bartle: "Now Trice claims to do 40 pages per night."
As Truman Capote reputedly once said about Jack Kerouac, "That's not writing, that's typing." |
|
| Jun-03-09 | | GeauxCool: <IMlDay> I want to believe that your position is just a strongpoint against <Riverbeast>'s attacks. However, I've found something quite surprising about your statements in the context of your article: <IMlDay - My journalistic duty requires mentioning the forgery theory exists. < REPORTED FACT <There were critics who presumed it was a forgery...> > > See the mistake? Rather than writing that the forgery theory exists <present tense>, your write that there WERE forgery critics <past tense>. The meaning in the article is that there is NO LONGER A FORGERY THEORY. Furthermore, the critics were characterized as having PRESUMED their position, in apparent abandonment of the laws of reason. This inadvertently distorts the thought processes of those in the competing point of view, which is the consensus here at Chessgames. Therefore, I believe that you have unfairly characterized the competing point of view, and I believe this was a mistake. There are other mistakes that follow from this, in a logical manner. Had the forgery theory been given balanced treatment, then what you had REPORTED AS FACT would have been characterized with neutrality (the author wrote, rather than Fischer wrote). I've outlined some these REPORTED FACTS below for your reconsideration: <REPORTED FACT <Bobby Fischer died last year after completing a book My 61 Memorable Games...>REPORTED FACT < ...the publisher and editor remain anonymous...> REPORTED FACT <...Fischer's writing style is fairly mellow compared to his infamous rants...> REPORTED FACT <...In the notes to Olafsson-Fischer, Zurich 1959 Fischer includes "one of my anonymous internet dalliances" for historical significance...> REPORTED FACT <...(9...g5! Fischer's punctuation...he recommends 12...Nc5) > REPORTED FACT <16...e4!(Punctuation by Fischer) (Likewise. He doesn't mention that...) > REPORTED FACT <...It was this disappointing theoretical draw against a "nobody" that inspired his creation of Fischer Random Chess.">
>
It is the reader's duty to let the journalist know of such mistakes, and it is the journalist's duty to own up to mistakes and have them corrected. <IMlDay>, it seems that you have a chance to change your professional opinion without embarrassment or retraction. Please consider this, as many of us are still hoping that you will rescue your trice-tarnished reputation. |
|
 |
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 22 OF 54 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
|
|
|