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| Jun-30-08 | | acirce: Or would the king end up on g8? Mate it is anyway. |
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| Jun-30-08 | | acirce: So let's take a look at the elementary endgames.
click for larger viewWith Black to move, this is an easy win for White -- just, say, 1..Kf6 2.Ke7 and as White is controlling the promotion square, the pawn queens in the next move. However, if White is to move, it seems he is in Zugzwang too. 1.Ke5 Ke7 2.Kf7, for example - 3.Kh6 wins if he can move again, but 2..Kg8 takes care of it very simply. It seems that Black will survive here, as with a knight or knight-king you can't lose a tempo - so that Black can always just move his king back and forth - but perhaps there is some sort of trick beyond my imagination? |
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| Jun-30-08 | | acirce: Maybe this in turn implies that in a position like this:
click for larger view1.g3 wins, while 1.g4 only draws? I haven't given this much thought, but you probably see where I'm coming from (White will need the extra pawn move to lose the necessary tempo). |
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| Jun-30-08 | | acirce: Yeah, it seems this is actually the case. Interesting. |
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| Jul-01-08 | | Ziggurat: <acirce> Great stuff. |
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Jul-01-08
 | | Domdaniel: <acirce> -- Great stuff indeed.
< 1.Kd3 g6 2.Ke5 Bh6 3.Kxf7 Nf6 4.Kxd8 0-0#> looks valid to me. At no point does either king move into check, and castling is legal. It's all open to interpretation, really, but I wanted to give the king a knight's move without changing anything else at all - unless that led to contradictions. There are oddities like the ones you've found, but no apparent contradictions. I agree that it looks more aesthetically satisfying when the kings are on adjacent squares - presumably because it 'looks wrong' to us, even more so than a leaping king. I'd put the King on g8 in the castling sequence, btw. I thought about castling with an L-shaped king move, but it seems too much trouble - as well as clearing away the intervening pieces as in normal chess, you'd need to create a bolt-hole on g2/g7 or c2/c7 as well. Castling is an anomaly anyway, so it might as well stay as it is. Nice work on the basic pawn ending too. |
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Jul-01-08
| | Domdaniel: "The dog is doing fine, but won't be playing chess again for a very long time". Just heard this on the radio. Is it a media stereotype or a shaggy dog story? Actually, it seems to be the intro to a car advert. Most strange. |
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Jul-01-08
| | Domdaniel: <Niels> ... if you happen to pass this way ... I have a Dutch conundrum: Re the standard king move versus the King Horse version, does it make sense to talk of either of them as being 'natural'? As opposed to being merely familiar. Is there a sort of overall harmony between the moves of *all* the pieces, or am I being metaphysical again? And - the Dutch bit - is this what Rembrandt meant by "die meeste ende di naetuereelste beweechgelickheijt"? |
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Jul-01-08
| | Domdaniel: "Football is like chess - but without the dice."
- Lukas Podolski |
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| Jul-01-08 | | acirce: <Domdaniel> Yeah, about the castling. Then maybe I'd like to modify the game just a little bit (and in this I'll prefer to change the move order somewhat too): 1.Kd3 Nf6 2.Ke5 g6 3.Kxf7 Bg7 4.Kxd8 0-0#
click for larger view
With the bishop going to the more natural square g7, and Black also castling normally, this becomes a very neat position and game. Black actually makes the exact same moves that he could have made in a fully normal game (such as in the KID). But here, it means he sacrifices the queen along the way in order to deliver mate by castling. Today's Dortmund games coming up. Let's see if Kramnik does something similar.. |
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| Jul-01-08 | | achieve: <Dom> Very interesting... You have the different limiting factors re movement (beweeglijkheid) and "harmony' of movement, assuming that 'complete freedom of movement' is, in fact, utopian... Both from a physical, as well as a metaphysical point of view. Gravity, anatomy, space and foreign objects all have limiting influences on movement, in various contexts... "Harmony" of movement would be obtained through optimal coordination and economy of movement of its members, towards achieving a certain goal. The 6 different pieces in Chess all have been dealt certain capacities, that both enable and restrict, and encourage cooperation to achieve maximum power. Harmony of movement is crucial, as communication is in human interaction... hmmm... I think you were not being too meta-physical... On the contrary, your questions beg for answers, and at the same time raise other questions, that beg for answers, who in turn... usw. Many things spring to mind at the moment, but I need some more time to organize them. (re KHC, architecture, painting...) Everything in Life is about optimizing [harmony of] 'movement'. |
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| Jul-01-08 | | achieve: PS: I said: <Everything in Life is about optimizing [harmony of] 'movement'.> This is not true. It's just one aspect, as is disruption of harmony of movement. I feel Chaotic. (knocks over priceless vase)
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| Jul-01-08 | | ravel5184: <Domdaniel> I am a premium member now! If you would like to visit The House of Chess you are very welcome to (it is open 24/7). ravel5184 chessforum I am looking forward to another correspondence game (my current opponent is a little below my playing strength - it is move 8 and he is down a piece). |
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| Jul-01-08 | | Red October: fascinating stuff, would be fun to do more end game studies like what <acirce> did |
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| Jul-01-08 | | ravel5184: Here is a King Horse Chess K+Q ending:
click for larger view1. Qd2+ Kf6 2. Qf4+ Kd5 <2 ... Kh5 3. Qe5#> 3. Qd4+ Kc7 4. Qc4+ Ke8 <4 ... Ka8 5. Qc6#> 5. Qe6+ Kc7 6. Qc6#. Note how the Queen alone mates with the King in the center! 
click for larger viewI strongly believe checkmate can be reached in all K+Q endings. Even maybe without the White King. |
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| Jul-01-08 | | ravel5184: White to play and mate in 2 (King Horse Chess):
click for larger view
1. Qg6+ Kc7 2. Qc6#
Similarly,
click for larger view
1. Qb6 Kg7 2. Qg6#
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| Jul-01-08 | | ravel5184: White to play and mate in 3 (King Horse Chess):
click for larger view
Here the White King does come into play.
1. Qe4+ Kd7 2. Qe6+ Kf8 3. Qf7(f5)#
1. Qe4+ Kf7 2. Qf5+ and now:
2 ... Kh6 3. Qg6(e6)#
2 ... Kh8 3. Qh7(h5)#
2 ... Kd8 3. Qd7(d5)#
Notice the similarities between the different third move possibilities! In each case the White Queen has the choice of mating by moving next to the King or three squares away from the King. I think I should like to write a book about King Horse Chess! Can I include you in the acknowledgements? |
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Jul-02-08
| | Domdaniel: <Ravel> - <Can I include you in the acknowledgements?> Heh. Yeah, let's have a copyright and patent war. I enjoy those ... Seriously, KHC may be the simplest variant of standard chess (ie, no new pieces, only one rule/move changed) where existing computer programs are no use at all -- code would have to be written from scratch. While Chess960/Fischerrandom is easily fed to an engine by changing the start position. I'm starting to sound like a salesman ...
PS. I thought I'd find a mate in 2 in your last position, but no success yet ... |
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| Jul-02-08 | | ravel5184: Here is what I call the "Triangle Maneuver", which is used to lure the King to the corner. An example:
click for larger view1. Qe2+ Kc6(g6) <1 ... Kd7(f7) 2. Qd3(f3)+, etc.) 2. Qc2(g2)+ and 3. Qe4+ <2 ... Kd8 3. Qg6! Kb7 4. Qb6#. It's called the "Triangle Maneuver" because it takes three steps. |
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| Jul-02-08 | | ravel5184: P.S. It's "ravel<<<<<5184>>>>>", by the way. How to remember it: 5 - 1 = 8 - 4. Please take care when writing my name as I do with yours and everyone else's. |
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| Jul-02-08 | | ravel5184: Here is a sneak preview of the first part in my book (keep in mind nothing will be published). If we learn to use a King in the endgame, we will have in essence mastered all the rest of chess we know. So let us learn how to use the different pieces to checkmate a King. Slightly different techniques are used here. Note that in this case the Queen is the most powerful piece, even better than two Rooks or even two Bishops and two Knights! So checkmating with a Queen is simplest: 
click for larger viewWhite first plays 1. Qd5+! This move demonstrates the key to winning with a Queen: get it next to the King, and forces Black to retreat to either g6 or g4. If 1 ... Kg6 White plays 2. Qg5+ Kf8 (2 ... Kh8 3. Qg7(g8,h5,f6)#) 3. Qf5#. And if 1 ... Kg4 White plays 2. Qd4+! Another key to winning, as in the last example, get it three squares behind the King. The Queen controls e5, f6, e3 and f2, and the response: Kh6(h2) is met by 3. Qf6(f2)+ Kg4 4. Qf4#. |
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Jul-02-08
 | | jessicafischerqueen: King <dom> for a Horse: heh
Looks like you've made a new friend...
heh...
Woot |
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Jul-02-08
| | jessicafischerqueen: It's actually a <Girl Owl> but she's pretty Butch I have to admit. BTW- <Ravel5184>...
You're not actually <Bill> in one of his many, many secret Premium Disguises, are you? Some of your posts in your new forum sound a lot like <Bill> when he uses the <Blako> character... If you are actually <Bill> I think you have pulled off the greatest coup in <sock puppetry> ever perpetrated at this website. Hoot! |
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| Jul-02-08 | | ravel5184: Who's "Bill"
The only bill I can see is the bill my parents keep ignoring! |
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Jul-02-08
 | | Open Defence: actually the greatest trick in sock puppetery would be if <Domdaniel> and <Eyal> were one and the same, with <Dom> thinking its a great trick to <Eye All> .. get it... the Eye and <Eye all>.... no? ... sheesh never mind |
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