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Later Kibitzing> |
| Sep-22-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: < Domdaniel: <Woody> - <Interesting, but I don't think Agent Starling falls in love with Hannibal, and his 'love' for her may just involve him eating her so I'm not sure that is the right term either.> Is that how the movie 'Hannibal' ends? I remember that Jodie Foster was unwilling to reprise the Starling role if it compromised the character's integrity from 'Silence of the Lambs' - as, she felt, any sort of consensual relationship with Dr Lecter would do. But the book most definitely ends consensually. A new life in a city far away, where he no longer feels the need to indulge his former culinary 'hobbies'. Thanks to the love of a good woman.> I didn't know the book version was so different! I have only seen the film, and their relationship is most definitely left unresolved. I would go and read the book, but it isn't my sort of thing really. American Psycho is another one I hear is better in book form. While I enjoy 2 hours of blood drenched cinema screen now and again,being entertained by a psychopath for 6 hours or more is definitely too much for my delicate emotional balance to handle, so all such books are off the menu. |
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| Sep-22-08 | | deerslayer888: You are ravel 5184 aren't you>?
Its obvious.
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Sep-22-08
 | | Domdaniel: <You are ravel 5184 aren't you>? >
Heh. Nabbed.
But it's not so simple. One of us is from a parallel universe. |
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Sep-22-08
| | Domdaniel: <Woody> I found American Psycho unreadable - boring, in fact - and never finished it. I more or less managed to watch the movie, but I remember it as being pretty bad too. But 'Hannibal' - the book version - is good. Neither a gorefest nor a literary masterpiece, but definitely readable. There are probably more bits where Lecter shows off his oh-so-exquisite taste, than gory bits -- we see him inhaling deeply in Italian perfume emporiums, selecting a vintage wine, arranging some nice flowers, and, uh, killing a deer hunter for being rude and sweaty. He then shows even more of his oh-so-exquisite good taste. Having shot both a deer and a deerhunter with crossbow bolts, he opens them both up. The hunter's liver is found to be disgusting and put back in, but the deer's liver is acceptable so he takes it home for dinner. So, like, he isn't *always* a cannibal - he won't eat sweaty guys with bad livers. It's actually funny, the lengths Harris goes to, to make Hannibal the Cannibal a suitable partner for our Clarice. He's given terrible memories and nightmares that even his legendary self-control can't overcome. But the love of a good woman ... all he needed was a good seeing-to, really. He learns that eating people is wrong, unless they ask you politely first. |
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Sep-22-08
| | Domdaniel: <deerslayer888> - <what you ae doin is impossible.> See previous post. Your spelling comes across as just a tad sweaty. I may have to inspect your liver. |
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| Sep-22-08 | | Eyal: Hi <Dom>, long time no see... Couple of thoughts about what you wrote on <prolepsis>.…In criticism, the term usually refers to any sort of an "advance notice" made with regard to the story-world's future, so as long as it's used by the narrator rather than the characters it has pretty much always been a rather standard narrative device. And the case of the 'visionary seer' in a historical novel, which you mention, strikes me as closer in a way to (fictional) prophecy - "historical" rather than "narrative" prolepsis, if you like - since the future referred to lies not in a later stage of the plot, but rather outside the very temporal/historical framework of the story. |
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| Sep-22-08 | | crawfb5: <jessicafischerqueen: Heh...
Ok I found yet "another" supposed authority on how to pronouce <The Great Dr. Max Euwe>: "Hooven gott".
Is that closer than "Ooh-vay"? >
Yes, it's true
It's not "you"
But hey
Neither is it "oh-vey"
Best stick with facts
Go with "Max"
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go watch some Dutch defense videos on EuweTube... :-) |
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| Sep-22-08 | | crawfb5: <Domdaniel: <QOTD> Insane/ Very easy. After 1.e4, whose games was in its last throes, according to Breyer? (a) White
(b) Black
(c) The Romanovs
(d) The Hapsburgs
1.1 What are "throes" and are last ones good or bad?> I think he wrote, "Most men make moves of quiet desperation..." :-) |
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Sep-22-08
| | Domdaniel: <Eyal> Hi, there. Yep, I suppose it's been a standard literary device for a long time. I think, though, that proleptic devices have become more commonplace of late -- the influence of flashbacks and flash-forwards in cinema? Where there is still a type of classic realist timeline - the temporal baseline - but jumps to and fro within it are quite normal. The 'seer' device strikes me as having many possible uses, of which I mentioned just one or two. It even gets routinely played with in sci-fi dramas using time travel - "uh, while you were there, did anyone notice who won the 2010 world cup?" - "no, I've no interest in sport" - "argh, there goes the betting coup of the century". This becomes the basis for a whole movie plot in the 2nd <Back to the Future> film ... But you're quite right to make a distinction between extratextual historic events and intradiegetic narrative turns ... |
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Sep-22-08
| | Domdaniel: <crawfb5>
1. What's wrong with 'Machgielis'?
2. What about Max Ernst and Ernst Mach?
3. Desperation? I thought it was "lives of quiet *aspiration* ... must be my bad breathing. |
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| Sep-22-08 | | Eyal: <prolepsis> I suppose there's a point in making a distinction between relatively short advance-notices (which were used by narrators at least since Homer) and wholesale time-shifts, where you have a sizable chunk of narrative that leaps forward in time. The latter do seem to have become more commonplace of late, though I have the impression that in both cinema and literature the flashbacks are, on the whole, much more popular than the flash-forwards. Perhaps that's because it's easier to maintain a realistic decorum with a flashback, naturalizing it as the operation of memory and such. In literature, sizable prolepses/flash-forwards seem especially suited to post-modernist temperaments, producing strong anti-realistic effects (as in <Slaughterhouse-Five>), or flaunting the presence of a manipulative narrator (as in <The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie>). |
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| Sep-22-08 | | euripides: <eyal, dom> Interesting - I think implicit and explicit prolepsis is a major source of pathos in the Iliad - the whole poem is in the shadow of the future. |
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| Sep-22-08 | | Ziggurat: < Pleae slow down. you will vector...> At this rate, I think <Dom> will eventually tensor. |
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Sep-22-08
| | Domdaniel: <Vector> I could be wrong here, but I think it was William Rowan Hamilton, of Quaternion fame, who also came up with the term 'vector' (from Latin *vehere, vectu*, to convey). He coined a whole family of words to go with it - *vehend*, for instance - but only vector really caught on. Vector Ludorum. |
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| Sep-22-08 | | Eyal: <euripides> Yes, definitely - especially with regard to the impending deaths of Patroclus, Hector (falling within the time boundaries of the story) and Achilles (falling outside those boundaries). Interesting to note that some of those prolepses are made by the narrator and some by characters (the gods) who, within the text's canons of probability, may be trusted to have knowledge of the future; also that some of them are completely clear (like Zeus' announcement of Hector's death in 15.68) and some vague forshadowings (like the simile relating to Hector in 12.41-50); also whether the heroes themselves (or other mortal characters) are aware of this future or not. |
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Sep-22-08
 | | Open Defence: http://www.economist.com/displaySto... |
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Sep-22-08
 | | tpstar: <prolepsis/Iliad> The concept is especially intriguing regarding the motivations of the main characters. Odysseus is told he will be gone twenty years if he joins the Trojan War, thus he initially feigns madness to avoid it, yet at least he "knows" he would survive the combat. Whereas Achilles is forewarned he will never come home (i.e., die) if he goes to Troy, thus his mother disguises him as a girl (surely the most outrageous feature of the Epic Cycle), but then he fights anyway, which in a sense is remarkably brave since he "knows" about his death. I wonder if Achilles really believed the prophecy when he left for Troy, given his overall cocksureness in his immortality, and I am curious about other opinions. A modern parallel is "The Matrix" when Neo first meets The Oracle, but leaves under false impressions. This (deliberate?) misinformation directly affects his immediate actions, so was The Oracle right or wrong? And who can say when a prophecy will be correct or not? <Risky Business> Tom Cruise is a high school student, a pretty good high school student, but has some bad luck ... I didn't like "Eyes Wide Shut" at all, especially the characterization of the doctor with all that unlimited free time. :-) |
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Sep-22-08
| | Open Defence: i found the notion of the Starling - Lecter romance repulsive... sorry my idea of a dangerous date is a biker...
or maybe marrying an investment banker NOW....
or maybe a derivatives trader.....
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Sep-22-08
| | Domdaniel: I'm a bit out of my depth with Homer, but isn't there an argument re the fundamental absence of motivations in the Iliad - during the siege etc the characters are puppets of the gods, with no interior selves. But everything changes when we reach wily Odysseus and more motivation than you can jab a sharp stick at. Julian Jaynes said it was because of the origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind, a historical event which can be located between the composition of the two Homeric texts. An interesting theory, but riddled with holes. But the same distinction has attracted other critics too. |
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| Sep-22-08 | | achieve: Jeff Buckley performing 'Hallelujah' - L. Cohen: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=AratT... |
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| Sep-22-08 | | Eyal: <I wonder if Achilles really believed the prophecy when he left for Troy, given his overall cocksureness in his immortality, and I am curious about other opinions.> In the "Iliad", at least, Achilles has no illusions about immortality and is painfully aware of his impending doom once he has made the choice to go and fight in the war. E.g.: "For my mother Thetis the goddess of the silver feet tells me / I carry two sorts of destiny toward the day of my death. Either, / if I stay here and fight beside the city of the Trojans, / my return home is gone..." (9.410-13); "So, friend [Lycaon], you die also. Why all this clamor about it? / Patroklos also is dead, who was better by far than you are. / Do you not see what a man I am, how huge, how splendid / and born of a great father, and the mother who bore me immortal? / Yet even I have also my death and my strong destiny, / and there shall be a dawn or an afternoon or a noontime / when some man in the fighting will take the life from me also / either with a spearcast or an arrow flown from the bowstring." (21.106-13). Hector, on the other hand, seems at several points to be "repressing" a similar knowledge about his own impending death. |
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| Sep-22-08 | | crawfb5: <Domdaniel: <crawfb5> 1. What's wrong with 'Machgielis'?
"Max" is an easier rhyme. I've never objected to picking the low-hanging fruit. Besides, I have it on good authority that those grapes just out of reach are of inferior quality. :-) <2. What about Max Ernst and Ernst Mach?> Is this about the importance of being Ernst to the Max? 3. Desperation? I thought it was "lives of quiet *aspiration* ... must be my bad breathing. Yeah, a sucking chest wound is really distracting, especially when you're trying to watch a movie. Speaking of bad breathing, time for me to get back to my rock. :-) |
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| Sep-22-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <Dom>, I don't mean to be rude but I was reading through your forum and the question of your age popped into my mind. I have it narrowed down, somewhere between 25 and 352. So either a gifted mortal, or a Highlander.
The latter might give us problems, because...'there can be only one!' |
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| Sep-23-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: <Dom><The *only* time I actually *demolished* a player rated over 2200 -- as opposed to lucky breaks, ding-dong battles, flukes, over-confident opponents blundering, or general wild'n'woolly stuff -- was as White in a Flohr-Mikenas. (I'm not, for example, counting the 'Four Queens' game, 'cos I played badly before the chaos started). But in this game he made a 'small' mistake in the opening, recapturing with pawn instead of Queen on f6. I knew it was wrong, knuckled down and figured out why, and tore him to shreds. I had a won game by move 14 and he resigned by move 18.> Any chance of seeing that game in full? I'm kind of curious now! If you show me yours I will show mine if you like. lol |
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Sep-23-08
| | Open Defence: <the question of your age popped into my mind> like good Irish Whiskey he gets better in the cask |
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