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| Aug-16-09 | | achieve: PS - <[..] the Hebrews had a word 'nephesh', meaning something like 'living soul', and similar to Akkadian 'napistu' ... but they "never had a word for the 'essential self' that survived death".)> I think that is spot on; I came to the exact same conclusion some twenty years ago, and ne'fesj (or nephesh) could not really have meant a part of the being that could "leave the body" and "travel" - (or whatever term you want to accredit to it) - to some place like heaven; a soul was merely a "living, breathing being," and when it had ejected its last breath, it was curtains. Same word was attibuted to killed animals (nefesh), too, and basically the dichotomy between body and soul, was introduced somewhere around the third century, if I recall.... Blurry on the details.... Lots was going on at the time. Maybe <Annie> can shed some light on both meanings of "nefesh" and "roe'ach" (spirit ?) - Greek: psuche... But regardless, a camera will not take away your soul, though the paparazzi try their hardest. |
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| Aug-16-09 | | hms123: <Dom> <Annie K.> From the Chambers Dictionary: middle-aged is defined as <between youth and old age, variously reckoned to suit the reckoner>. |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Open Defence: or alternatively the age where the middle gets to be rather prominent |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Domdaniel: <Deffi> -- <Has Frogspawn fallen?>
Naaah. Fact, I was just typing in some new variation on it when I noticed those propellor-head flowerpots. They reminded me of (1) an *evil* song from prehistoric kids' TV which went something like "We're Bill and Ben/ The flowerpot men/ Hello, little weed, hello" -- like, proto-claymation psychedelia for four-year-olds. Years later a friend and I recorded an industrial cover version influenced by Throbbing Gristle, Nine Inch Nails, and the sort of music you can't last five minutes in a room with. At any volume: it's the subsonics get you. And (2), the 2nd thing I was reminded of was a JG Ballard story called 'Garden Airplane Traps'. So I went with that. But <Frogspawn> never actually, you know, *dies*. And if it did, it'd be back on that karmic wheel faster'n a hamster. Are hamsters known for their high rate of karmic turnover? I don't *think* the topic has come up before, but I could be wrong. Or is it just Nieuw Hamster Dam again? |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Open Defence: and all this before the tellytubbies eh ? |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Domdaniel: <Niels> The photo-booth 'why' is easy. In the old machines, you got a strip of four black-and-white pics, with different poses. I liked the aesthetic, though I rarely did anything more adventurous than taking my glasses off. And only a couple of times per year. Although - like old chess scoresheets - most of the b/w pics seem to have vanished. Then they brought in new colour machines with digital enhancements and on-the-spot photoshopping. Which I could do at home by then anyway. The romance was gone. Romance takes some odd forms, though. I knew a guy, an artist, who 'religiously' visited the photo machine every day for about ten years. He used to turn the results into short films and watch himself getting older. Then it turned weird. He'd travel to dangerous parts of Northern Ireland - dangerous then, just tough now - and try to get all his clothes off inside the booth. Luckily he was never torn apart by feral kids or their gun-toting elders. Last I heard, he was rescued from this sordid existence by a good woman, and retired to a farm to paint. Not even self-portraits, thankfully. Life always takes odd twists and turns, doesn't it? I feel sorry for those 17-year-old who've been told that 'failure' in some stupid examination will forever ruin their chances of happiness. Some of them even kill themselves, and they never learn about the twists in the road, the ups, the downs, the lateral shifts and amusing full stops. Far as I'm concerned, telling a child that 'everything' hangs on an exam result is up there with indoctrinating a kid with religion. Both are forms of child abuse. But chess - as Michael Basman keeps saying - actually teaches kids to *think*. And to make decisions based on their own reasoning. Priceless, that is. |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Domdaniel: I believe the frogs and their tomes have returned to us. Mark your page in case they vanish again. |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Open Defence: <Life always takes odd twists and turns, doesn't it? I feel sorry for those 17-year-old who've been told that 'failure' in some stupid examination will forever ruin their chances of happiness. Some of them even kill themselves, and they never learn about the twists in the road, the ups, the downs, the lateral shifts and amusing full stops. > tell me about it.. I was told repeatedly that all I had to do was to pass my Class X Exams with a good score...I did, then I was told that I had to get a good score in my Bachelor's Degree... I did, then I was told I had to pick a career..
I did, then I was told I had to get an accounting classification... well.. if I knew how this was going to turn out I would have stuck to baking and opened a pastry chain... |
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| Aug-16-09 | | achieve: <Then I was told ...> Indeed... Unlike grand parents. Played checkers with my granddad, simple man, and my grandmom baked the most delicious pastry. One of the advantages of being independent and, say, 30, is that you can decide to change course and direction... Easier said than done, though. |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Annie K.: Sux being at work when everybody else has the day off. :( I can watch the action, my net access is pretty good - or I wouldn't be working there - but no time to post. And now there's a lot to catch up with.:s Let's see... |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Domdaniel: <Deffi> But, but, but, you're an accountant *and* a chessplayer (of some renown) *and* a Frogspawn-certified guitar genius. Not many of *them* in the world, are there? In my limited experience of the type, accountants either count beans forever or take a rake-off and become crooked politicians. Some become prime ministers, a fate so much worse than death that it hardly bears thinking about. I guess you could have laundered mob dough in that pastry chain. Croissants for pissants ... Is a pastry-making accountant known as a *puff adder* ... ? |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Domdaniel: <Niels> I don't think paparazzi behaviour is very soul-related: it mostly consists of picking on vulnerable people and driving them over the edge. I've seen the vermin in action around movie stars -- ones like Mel Gibson whose 'people' have their own people, whose muscle hires its own muscle, and who are insulated by the power of money. Even there, the paps were odious. I shudder to think what they do to those without protection. Thomas Harris - the Hannibal Lecter author - isn't exactly a great stylist but sometimes he can choose the perfect word for something. In one book he described the 'ablative' tension of media exposure. Ablative is also a grammatical term, but the meaning I take here has to do with friction, erosion, relentless rubbing away (with a hint of abrasion). The heat shields on space capsules are meant to protect them from ablation on re-entry: otherwise they burn up. It can also mean weathering, melting, evaporation, or the surgical removal of an organ. An interesting mix. And very redolent of yer 21st-century pap. The grammatical/linguistic usage - as in 'ablative absolute', for anyone who ever studied Latin - has a few meanings as well. But they also seem to cluster round the concept of words being 'weathered' or worn down by the process of linguistic change. Which was one of the places we came in, wasn't it? In that discussion which began chez Annie a while ago. I've taken the next week off 'sick', btw, to give myself a chance of recovering from whatever's been stopping my brain working. I understand that some folk take these 'sickie' things regularly, but I don't think I've ever done it before -- apart from a six-month escape break which was only health-related in a vague mental way, and maybe a couple of spells in hospital, years ago. But - as a freelance - taking a week off for whatever reason boils down to begging permission to be allowed not to earn any money. Which could be why I don't bother. 'They' also seem to prefer the way I write when semi-comatose, as long as I don't start hallucinating hot metal laptops again ... Pattern behavior scan: just noticed that I 'defended' young people *twice* today, in different contexts. An aberration like that will be filed with the Paranometer in room 47. One more thing. I miss Joe Wms too. He was the founding father of puns, paronomasia, and not talking about chess. An inspiration, and the last great American. We broke rules and stole horses together, and both the rules and the horses are better for it. "Have you stolen horses with him?" (old-time underworld saying, meaning 'do you trust him?') "No horse, no wife, no mustache" (from a wanted posted in the old west, according to Robert Anton Wilson, who made an awful lot of things up ... yet the unlikeliest ones turned out true) ... and also a reminder of the time you tracked down a photo of a namesake of mine (there are thousands: it's great cover) ... whose only flaw was that he possessed one of the items on that list. As you now know, I don't. |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Domdaniel: Oh yeah: 'nephesh' & 'napistu'. It may be unrelated, but the name of the Noah figure -- favorite of the gods, ark builder, survivor of the great flood -- in the Akkadian flood myth found in the epic of Gilgamesh, is ... Ut-Napishtim. His story was written down about 4000 years ago but is accepted as being much older. With many elements which the biblical flood story seems to have lifted wholesale. Hard to get decent copyright protection in the bronze age, I suppose. There was an episode of Star Trek: Next Generation called, I think, Darmok, where Picard tells the story of Gilgamesh to a dying alien. The catch is they can't understand one another at first - the alien is Tamarian, and their cryptic language defeats starfleet's computers. It's all based on myth, story, and metaphor -- as if we said "Romeo, and Juliet on the balcony" to denote love. Which might be a problem for any aliens who didn't know Shakespeare. Picard figures it out, of course, tells the story of Gilgamesh - which is somehow worked into the alien's mythplex - and averts war. It's actually one of the few really good episodes, I think, even if some of the language stuff is hocus-pocus. No, I take that back. What's hocus-pocus is the universal translator in most other episodes. This one actually tackles some of the inherent problems of xenolinguistics: like, how do you start translating without *any* cultural history in common? Pointing at things and animals led to notoriously dubious results in Australia and North America ... so what do you do if somebody doesn't know what pointing means, or even have a convenient pointer on their body? Ever try pointing something out to a cat? And cats and humans share a lot of genes and some cultural history. One cat I had was entranced by snooker on TV. She'd watch, enraptured, head tracking the ball movements. Then she'd dart behind the set to catch the cue ball and kill it. |
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| Aug-16-09 | | achieve: <Domdaniel: <Niels> I don't think paparazzi behaviour is very soul-related: it mostly consists of picking on vulnerable people and driving them over the edge.> That was actually what I meant, eating away at private "space" and the causal link to being nefesh (not so much "soul")-related is imo there, though in of course various immeasurable degrees... But it's late, and we, as I see it, mean exactly the same, though I express ... you know. And indeed I remember "No horse, no wife, no mustache" like yesterday... Quite an embarrassment at first. Quite in a hunting mood - I was. You even told me you were much thinner, and I believed you. Remember how Joe blew up in Trice's face when Joe solved that riddle within 30 minutes, and Tripod declared the answer invalid? "Up yours, Tr*ce... Three times a mustache..."
Priceless. As you say.
Every 3 or 4 months there is a moment that I think of him, and miss him, and hope he is enjoying his cognac. |
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| Aug-16-09 | | achieve: <Dom> posts crossed. Back later for <[...] how do you start translating without *any* cultural history in common?> - which will also capture the interest of <Annie>, I assume. ♘♘ from New Hamster Damned |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Domdaniel: Yeah, I'm outta here too. I'm going to add sleep to the health equation, see what happens. Later I can maybe tackle advanced modules like <regular nightly sleep> which could be a bit of a stretch just now. Just too many minor bad habits sustained across too many decades, is all, and wondering which ones I can keep and which to sacrifice. Trouble is I think of 'bad habits' like I think of 'bad language': somewhere between a category mistake and a story to frighten children. Oh dear. Child reference #3, in a context suggestive of gross moral turpitude. Good ♘, then, to one and all .... |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Annie K.: <Dom> thanks for the congrats on the game. :) And the compliment on the pics. Re <shortage of pix> - heh. I know the problem. Three of those were actually taken just now on my birthday, as I declared an emergency pic shortage crisis (knowing my game was in the queue to be uploaded) and demanded of all available family members to take their best shots. :p So that's one way to solve it. ;) Alternatively, you can look around on Google Images yourself, and see if any of your namesake pics are actually yours - you never know! <Then there was the photographer who dressed me in leather and made me look Draculoid, for an exhibition. I don't have a copy. The snapper gave the only unsold print to my then girlfriend - she was in the shot too, crouched at my side looking vaguely bitten - and, to cut a long story short, they all became different people, buddhists and film directors and such.> Quoted for being fun to read. :) How does one go about looking "vaguely bitten"? :D Buddhism... if having <some> religion was absolutely mandatory, I'd probably pick that one. (Otherwise, no, thanks.) Mind you, Wu Cheng'en's "Journey to the West" (in Hungarian translation directly from Chinese) having been one of my favorite childhood books may have something to do with that. ;) <Remember all those evil old white guys with their stories about "primitive tribes" who believed that the camera "stole your soul"? Utter nonsense.> Yeah, I learned that a couple of years ago. At the time I was actually looking for a reference to support the urban legend, and found to my surprise that serious sources negated it. Although isn't Voodoo specifically based on some similar idea? (not that I know a darn thing about that cult(?)/practice(?) beyond what "everybody knows". :s) |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Annie K.: <Niels: <Maybe <Annie> can shed some light on both meanings of "nefesh" and "roe'ach" (spirit ?)>> You should probably ask <Eyal> about those, if you want to know all about their etymologies... but in common usage, "nefesh" does serve more as a "living being/soul", or as a reference to spirituality/emotional well-being, as in "it's good for the soul". It's also used in counting - you'd say a family counts "x nefashot" (x souls). Ruach is more closely related to matters of the mind - spirituality and philosophy - but we're still talking about the living, except for the specific "ruach refa'im" which means ghost - but I have no idea where and when this term was introduced. Then there's a third term, "neshama", which also means soul, more the emotional aspect thereof as far as I can tell from usage, but here again it bears noting that it is closely related to the word "neshima", meaning "breath", so this one probably doesn't do much for any afterlife theories either. |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Annie K.: <hms123: <<Dom> <Annie K.> From the Chambers Dictionary: middle-aged is defined as <between youth and old age, variously reckoned to suit the reckoner>.>> Useful term. :)
<Open Defence: <or alternatively the age where the middle gets to be rather prominent>> But wouldn't that optimistically imply that the prominence of the middle should then go away as soon as you reach old age? :s <Dom: <Or is it just Nieuw Hamster Dam again?>> The question is, does Constant Inn Opal get another turn too??? |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Annie K.: <Dom: <Far as I'm concerned, telling a child that 'everything' hangs on an exam result is up there with indoctrinating a kid with religion. Both are forms of child abuse.>> Quoted for truth. Actually this one should be framed and hung on the wall somewhere prominent. <But chess - as Michael Basman keeps saying - actually teaches kids to *think*. And to make decisions based on their own reasoning. Priceless, that is.> Well, you want to be careful with overemphasizing chess that way. It does that - as far as it goes - but it can go too far. I know somebody who does rely on chess extensively as their basis for general ideas, and he sometimes seems to actually have a difficulty grasping or expressing any concept or situation that chess <doesn't> cover, or for which it's an ill fit as a parallel. He just seems to lose his "hold on reality" in such situations and flounder, uncertain how to cope. Quite disturbing. |
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Aug-16-09
 | | Annie K.: <Dom: <Ever try pointing something out to a cat?>> Well, pointing doesn't work very well, that's for sure. :) But I've noticed that when one of my cats stares somewhere intently, if the other one sees her doing it, she will almost always come around and check out what she's staring at. I've tried using the same trick myself when I want them to notice something, and sometimes it works - but only if they feel like making the effort to check out what's so interesting for me just then. ;) It may have to do with their experience that what interests me doesn't always interest them. ...and lastly, sorry about showing up here too late, folks. Maybe I should seek employment as Santa or a tooth fairy. ;s |
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Aug-18-09
 | | Domdaniel: <Annie> You're right, of course, about the non-generalisability (?) of chess skills. If it worked, then chess tournaments would be full of very smart people, not geeks with a pawn obsession. I was persuaded, to some extent, by a recent interview with Basman. He's been running gigantic chess competitions for schoolkids in England, mostly under ten, and claims that the thought-training is very useful. He may have a point - for one thing, there's a pretty even divide between the sexes at that age. When hormones and puberty etc kick in, the boys acquire this competitive urge which is all too simplistic for the girls. In many ways, competitiveness is about the least interesting aspect of chess -- in the sense that what matters about a game is winning it, in order to crush the other guy's ego and preserve one's own. The only thing worse, in my opinion, is chess as sports-fan-worship. Worse yet if nationalism is the basis. I like mathematics too, though I never was a prodigy. I was, however, reading at the age of two - and I read a sci-fi novel for grownups at four, which indicates some sort of prodigyhood. But as for maths: its defenders argue that it's good for general thinking skills, even if you never have to any actual trigonometry again. And yet most people go through life with a *terrible* grasp of probability. According to Gerd Gigerenzer ('Reckoning with Risk', 2002) this inability to think statistically applies to doctors and scientists as much as anyone. Chess, maths, belief systems ... what unifies all this stuff is that most people don't actually *want* to think. And most education systems refuse to make thought fun or interesting. Maybe chess helps there, in the right dose at the right time. |
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Aug-18-09
 | | Domdaniel: <Frogspawn> keeps odd hours. Partly the worldwide spread of contributors, partly the odd hours kept by your host here -- targeted by torque and timezones. The downside is, I occasionally lose - or mislay - a day. But another one usually comes along pretty soon... To Moro, and to Moro, and to Moro,
And all that. |
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Aug-19-09
 | | Open Defence: <Domdaniel: <Frogspawn> keeps odd hours> as opposed to even scores ? |
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Aug-19-09
 | | Domdaniel: I must have meant <odd houris>. How unlike me, to forget an <i>. Aren't *all* scores equal to 20 and therefore, well, even? |
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