chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
 
Chessgames.com User Profile Chessforum

M61MG Wrestler
Member since Jun-28-09 · Last seen Nov-05-14
no bio

Chessgames.com Full Member

   M61MG Wrestler has kibitzed 26 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Nov-05-14 M61MG Wrestler chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ==== <James Demery> The link has been updated to this one: Robert James Fischer As the owners of this website clean up the old trash, the links above get broken. You called on an investigation of the M61MG book's legitmacy, and Trice's puppet <hackmate> made up a
 
   Jun-16-14 Viktor Korchnoi (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <petrosianic: a few words that Fischer didn't even say (see "My 61 Memorable Games Hoax"). > http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... .
 
   Sep-27-12 Adams vs Gelfand, 2012 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: Whereas Adams is seventh place....he needs to try harder. :)
 
   Feb-15-12 Bobby Fischer (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: <♗=== UGH ===♗> <Joshka: <rannewman> Those notes were collected and written over decades, and according to reports I've read, they measure some 22 inches high stacked on top of one another! The bootlegged book was printed in Iceland 2007. IM Larry ...
 
   Jun-23-11 jessicafischerqueen chessforum (replies)
 
...
 
   Aug-12-09 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: In my profile I am having difficulty getting certain lines to separate, without adding a blank line in between. How can I ensure that a line of text starts on a new line? Here is an example that DOES NOT SEPARATE with a carriage return: Evans 1st M61MG Article ...
 
   Jul-25-09 Kibitzer's Café (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ Reminder to all: If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite you to visit my chessforum. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion from all users that takes place on my forum.
 
   Jul-25-09 Shirov vs R Panjwani, 2009 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗/////NO ONE BANNED\\\\\ ♗ If you want to discuss or investigate the book "My 61 Memorable Games", I invite your to visit my chessforum, on which no CG.COM user is banned from participating. Other sites on the internet may not allow the discussion that takes ...
 
   Jul-03-09 H Olafsson vs P Smirnov, 2008 (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: ♗////LINKS NEEDED\\\\♗ I'm looking for good links to headline the "Uncovering the Truth" page. See the short kibitz history on my forum. Improvements solicited, and most welcome.
 
   Jun-29-09 chancho chessforum (replies)
 
M61MG Wrestler: New location for discussing "My 61 Mem Games", including all* previous posts on that topic from Mrs. Alekhine's forum. Click my Avatar to join in. Anyone is welcome. *some pruning has occurred on irrelevant posts.
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Uncovering the Truth About M61MG

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 47 OF 54 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-08-09  capatal: <Joshka> Has sincerely declared Bobby Fischer to be his chess hero many times here @ CG.com.

The greatest service <Joshka> can do for Bobby's legacy and family, would be to submit his copy of M61MG here to CG.com. for analysis and authentication. (For less than one week @ our expense).

If <Joshka> makes this gracious act in tribute to Bobby, He will be The Ultimate Bobby Fischer Fan here at CG. com., with the lasting gratitude of all Bobby's fans.

We can all chip in for overnight shipping and return <Joshka>'s M61MG book within five days.

How about it <Joshka>? Bobby Fischer would be proud of you, too!

Aug-08-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: My belief is that the book is the original Fischer book material with the prose slightly worded differently, plus the added bs material. In all this time, a page or two has circulated aound the web, and nothing else has been showed by the people who have this book. Could it be that the added prose is so unlike Fischer, that the conclusion is that it's all bs? With all the lies and heavy duty bs associated with this book, how an anyone in their right mind believe that it's Fischer legit? Even the Gothic Chess match smells of pure chicanery.
Aug-08-09  PinnedPiece: <Jim Bartle: I'm so jealous. When's somebody going to accuse ME of being a Trice sockpuppet?>

You are truly unique, <JB>. everybody else on the site has learned to use <this feature>.

No confusion possible.

Aug-08-09  Jim Bartle: capatal's comment on "greatest service" reminds me of a bit by Robert Klein:

"Zsa Zsa Gabor was sentenced to do community service. What kind of community service could she do, except leave it?"

Aug-08-09  PinnedPiece: <whiteshark: So there are

- only two people in the world that believe the book has been written by Bobby Fischer

- and a notorious liar and renowned impostor, who wants to make us believe that it is so.>

A lot of truth there, especially if most of the other book-owner claimants are cloned accounts. However, I personally feel that <Joshka> and <Ed Trice> were able to assist (negotiate???) other sales than <IMlday> and its perfectly reasonable to expect that a dozen or so others out there own the book, and also believe the story that accompanies the book.

If hundreds of sales had been made by now this kibitz page would see some probably legitimate other posters who want to discuss the book.

Unfortunately this forum is perhaps a little toxic to expect many other <just ordinary folks> type owners to want to get fingernails pulled here.

. .

Aug-08-09  Jim Bartle: Hey, I believe it's a fraud, but I'd still like to buy a copy. As long as it costs what a normal 700-page chess book costs. I think Soltis' book on the Russians and a comprehensive book of Petrosian's games cost about $50 each, so I'd pay that, out of pure curiosity.
Aug-08-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  IMlday: MM: <didn't a certain GM Yasser concluded the exact opposite from you?>

No, this misinformation results from falling for a rhetorical tactic. It was a trap cunningly laid by Ed Labate. Upon learning an IM would be reviewing the book he quickly circulated an email to titled players soliciting their opinion on whether the book (the very existence of which he had been adamantly denying) was a hoax. GM Yasser Seirawan responded logically on the unlikeliness of Fischer writing such a book. By crafty editing of circumstance and definition, Labate was able to create the impression that Yasser's pessimistic prediction was somehow "opposite" to an actual review of the actual book by an IM.

To really be "opposite" the circumstances would have to be equivalent; Yasser would need to be able to spend two weeks studying the book itself before drawing a conclusion. Otherwise it is comparing apples and oranges, not opposites.

JustToClarify wrote:
"A good computer program can perform very insightful analysis of chess positions."

I was aware of that.

"This invalidates your "The analysis is so good, it must have been written by Bobby Fischer" argument."

That wasn't my argument. How the computer was used, at what points and to what ends, that is where the artistry is exhibited.

"Your assertion that the analysis could not have been done by a computer..."

You don't seem to have digested what I "asserted" at all.

"...is a subjective impression; many chess players stronger than you, such as Yassir [sic] Seirawan, disagree with this conclusion."

Correcting your misconceptions becomes
tedious.

" Indeed, you are the only international master or
grand master who believes this book to be written by Fischer."

This is the type of trick statement that attempts to elicit information which you do not have. You know only that I have had a copy for the past half-year. To whom I have lent it, or scanned parts of it, you have no clue; nor to those readers conclusions regarding the books authorship.
Even if I told you that my opinion was shared by GM XXRedactayevXX and GM XXIfYouTellThoseLoudMouthSmallMindYankeePotzersM-
yRealNameIllSlitYourThroatovichXX, you could assume I'd made them up. So, since you don't know, why pretend you do?

"The other stuff which is supposedly secret that only Fischer knew: ..."

My point went totally over your head.
Let me put it in short words.
A forger could safely fake stuff that "only Fischer knew". No one could deny it. But he could not safely fake stuff that Fischer and somebody else, like Torre, also knew. if it weren't true, then they could deny it.

Your reading comprehension skills appear negligible.
How can I possibly believe you are a wiki editor?

"I'm saying, since you spent good money for this book, your cognitive dissidence has kicked in and you're emotionally unable to accept you have made an error."

This would be a decent attempt at armchair psychiatry except that the fancy term you're looking for is "cognitive dissonance".

Common folk use "sour grapes"
after Aesop's fox which, unable to jump high enough to reach the grapes, concluded they were probably sour anyway. E.G.-You couldn't get the book; Therefore the book is forged.

<JB> "...the writing style is just so bad, so execrable, and so totally at variance from Fischer's earlier style..."

You're repeating yourself. Fischer's M60MG style was to let Larry Evans put the text into journalese. Fischer would apparently have preferred Frank Brady to edit M61MG. He didn't have that many friends left who had English as a first language.

"Mr. Day, do you also believe that Trice has NOT written posts using different names?"

Trice's sock puppets are easy to spot. They lack the sophistication of Labate's, like JTC. But personally I don't think either Ed has more than a peripheral relation with the book. And if either or both of them had been diagnosed with a dissociative disorder in would not surprise me at all.

"I see Mr. Day's role as similar to that of a defense lawyer, with Trice as his client."

Only because your view is Tricentric. You know little of the book and much about Trice. Let me tell you a story:

One night, Nazrudin was on his hands and knees searching for his key in a well light area. Some of his neighbors came to see why Nazrudin was on his hands and knees. “What are you looking for, Nazrudin?" enquired one of the neighbors. “My door key.” Came the reply.
The helpful neighbors drop to their hands and knees and joined Nasrudin in his search for the lost key. After a long unsuccessful search, one of the neighbors asks: “We’ve looked everywhere. Are you sure you dropped it here?”
Nazrudin answers: “Of course I didn’t drop it here, I dropped it outside my door.” “Then, why are you looking for it here!”
“Because there’s more light here," responded Nazrudin.

Aug-08-09  Joshka: <IMlday> Thanks for your thoughts. But would you at least comment a bit, if other GM's or Im's that you might have shared the book with, have a positive or negative view on Fischer's involvement? No names of course. Thanks
Aug-08-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <IMDay> With all due respect to you, but saying that Labate got wind of your review and used a rhetorical device by sending e-mails around, is just idle speculation. What is needed here in this forum is honest to goodness evidence. Asking how the forger knew about the Donkey and what it's use was is not real evidence. A photo of Fischer holding the book, one of the people from the RJf group stating that Fischer indeed wrote it, that's real evidence. What about Einarsson's e-mail, can you refute that? The guy knew Fischer for many years and even though he may have had a falling out with Fischer, from 2005 until 2008, Einar was bound to see if Fischer was writing a book or not. He said Fischer did not write it, therefore I believe him. Why would he say that if it wasn't true? If you can prove otherwise, (other than continuing to pose the same questions that don't lead to anything) Please do so. Having an IM title is very noteworthy, but again, evidence, real evidence is what is needed here.
Aug-09-09  Jim Bartle: Joshka: "No names of course."

And therefore no way to confirm the information.

Aug-09-09  MageOfMaple: A couple of points in <IMlDay>'s post compel comment.

<You know only that I have had a copy for the past half-year. To whom I have lent it, or scanned parts of it, you have no clue; nor to those readers conclusions regarding the books authorship.>

Ummmmmmm... ok

<GM XXIfYouTellThoseLoudMouthSmallMindYankeePotzersM- -yRealNameIllSlitYourThroatovichXX>

Well, isn't that special?

<"Then, why are you looking for it here!" "Because there’s more light here">

Is that some kind of Heizenberg uncertainty thing?

Aug-09-09  Jim Bartle: Yes, I've heard that joke in many variations, Mr. Day.

"You know little of the book and much about Trice."

Once again, I know little of the book because it is NOT FOR SALE. So only people who have spent $300, buying via some strange source (and without an invoice, I'll bet), have a right to an opinion about the book?

I find it curious that it has not been reviewed in NIC, Chesscafe, Chessbase, or any of the major sources of information. Why might that be?

Aug-09-09  Joshka: Hey Bartle, I believe IMlday to be an honest fellow. He would have no reason to lie, if in fact his chess buddies at the higher levels did not agree with him. Until he makes it known, what their assumptions are, the names are not important as far as I'm concerned. Yes it would be progressive if we knew the names of such folks, but if not, I'd be happy just to hear the results. Thumbs up or down.
Aug-09-09  MageOfMaple: So, <Joshka>, still nothing to back up or explain this mysterious statement?

<Joshka: Why don't you write to a certain publishing company in Europe, that confiscated the remaining stock about two months ago.........they have thousands of copies......>

Aug-09-09  Jim Bartle: Joshka, you never seem to offer ANY information which can be confirmed by outside sources. Your whole defense seems to be "trust us."

How about taking a stab at my other question? Why has this book not been reviewed by any major source of chess news? You'd think a new Fischer book would be pretty big news.

Maybe I should try another tack. Joshka, can you give me a physical address or a website where I can purchase this book? I will need an invoice.

Maybe that publishing company in Europe would be a start. Can you give me the name and address?

Aug-09-09  Joshka: It's amazing to no end, how investigators would never dream of denying an art relic by a world famous artist without seeing the work at hand. Nor deny a musical composition without hearing the music. But you folks can claim with such authority that the book is forged, faked, or whatever. Some two-hundred and fifty years have past and they are still finding compositions by Mozart. A few years back they found a Beethoven manuscript. Seems like we are probably in the embryonic state with this event.
Aug-09-09  Jim Bartle: Nice non-sequitur there, joshka.

We have in effect seen quite a few measures of this symphony, and small areas of the work of art: the pages scanned and shown on websites.

I don't see anything comparable to the authentication of works of art or music.

And once again, Joshka, where can I buy the book?? I want one.

Or just keep ignoring the question. Mr. Day had the courtesy to answer me a while back that he did not know where the book was for sale.

Aug-09-09  Joshka: <Jim Bartle> I do not know why the major chess news outlets have not commented on the book. But their "silence" is telling. Don't you think someone would want to rip the book apart and show the forgery?? I was able to get the book, so I cannot see why folks at the top levels of chess could not do the same. I'm a patzer player, no connections what so ever to the powers at hand in chess. No, I did not receive an invoice, with bootleg items, you'd expect not, and I had no problem with that. I think we have to 'sit on our hands' and wait for reviews to come in from GM's other Im's, ect. Bobby's relatives have been silent as far as I know, so we wait....
Aug-09-09  Joshka: Bartle, do not know how you can get the book now.
Aug-09-09  Jim Bartle: Or...

...the major chess sites think it's so obviously a forgery that it's not worth their time.

Aug-09-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <Jim> Joshka's read the posts asking for info regarding the European Publishing house that he said has the "thousands of books." It seems to me that Joshka may have a vested interest in that book as well, since he's dancing around spewing nonsense. He already has it, why hasn't he been forthcoming and given the info that has been requested?
Aug-09-09  Joshka: <Jim Bartle> No that can't be the case, they would LOVE to expose the criminal, if in fact a crime was commited. But nothing but silence.
Aug-09-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <that can't be the case, they would LOVE to expose the criminal, if in fact a crime was commited. But nothing but silence.>

Good ol <Joshka> expressing an opinion as if it were a fact. Does this guy even know what the hell he is talking about?

Aug-09-09  Colonel Mortimer: Is IM Day certain that M61MG was penned by Fischer in the same way that GM Nigel Short was certain he was playing Fischer on an internet chess server?
Aug-09-09  Jim Bartle: Can you give some reasoning why that can't be the case?

I should correct myself. Mig did write a column at Daily Dirt about the book controversy, but not about the book itself. (He of course didn't have a copy.)

http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt...

In general, he was extremely skeptical.

Jump to page #   (enter # from 1 to 54)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 47 OF 54 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific user only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

You are not logged in to chessgames.com.
If you need an account, register now;
it's quick, anonymous, and free!
If you already have an account, click here to sign-in.

View another user profile:
   
Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2025, Chessgames Services LLC