< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
|Jun-26-03|| ||SicilianDragon: Fischer loses to an INFERIOR variation. That is humorous when you consider that he said he had it [beating the Dragon] down to an "exact science" which simply involved "prying open the h-file and then sac, sac, mate!" |
|Jun-26-03|| ||drukenknight: well its interesting that you mention that. Have you seen the Vishy/Kasparov game they are discussing today? It features the h pawn advance, but it is met by h5.|
THen there is the SPassky/Geller series that I posted on a few days ago. Spassky uses the f pawn to open up the fianchetto. But it is still far from a certainty. There is no certain wins in any reasonably sound variation. \
in htis game it looks like Fischer might try to cut off support from the Rook so he can take Kxc2. I dont know if it can be cutoff but one idea is 30 Rd8+ RxR 31 KxR then the R moves.
|Jun-26-03|| ||SicilianDragon: I've seen the Vishy/Kasparov game and 9...a6 is inferior because it is too slow. Two moves by White that I question are 12. Bh6 and 17. h4. 12. Nd5! is excellent as 12...Qd8 (12...Qxd2 13. Nxe7+ drops a pawn)13. Bh6 will get rid of the King's Bishop and Knight. In addition, 17. Bxg7 looks better to me. Fischer was probably hoping for 17...Bxh6 18. Qxh6 which is probably winning for White. After 30. Rd8+ Rxd8 31. Kxc2, 31...Rc8+ leaves White with Not too much other than Kb1 after which Fischer is a clear pawn down, Munoz has the bishop pair, and the extra pawn is well-defended, passed, and on the second rank! |
|Jun-26-03|| ||Shadout Mapes: I actually played against this variation at GameKnot.com. I ended up winning the game. Here it is if you're interested:|
[Event "Lets play chess"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. Bc4 a6 10. Bb3 Bd7 11. O-O-O Na5 12. h4 Nxb3+ 13. Nxb3 Be6 14. g4 Rc8 15. h5 Bxb3 16. axb3 Qa5 17. Kb1 gxh5 18. gxh5 Nxh5 19. Bh6 Qe5 20. Bxg7 Nxg7 21. Qh6 f5 22. Qxh7+ Kf7 23. Rd5 Rfh8 24. Rxe5 Rxh7 25. Rxe7+ Kxe7 26. Rxh7 Kf6 27. Nd5+ Kg6 28. Ne7+ Kxh7 29. Nxc8 Ne8 30. c4 Kg7 31. Kc2 Kf6 32. Kd3 Ke5 33. exf5 Kxf5 34. Kd4 Ke6 35. c5 d5 36. f4 Nc7 37. Nd6 Nb5+ 38. Nxb5 axb5 39. f5+ Kxf5 40. Kxd5 Kf4 41. Kd6 Ke4 42. Kc7 Kd4 43. Kb6 b4 44. Kb5 1-0
|Jun-27-03|| ||SicilianDragon: Hey, ShadoutMapes, I'm on gameknot too. I challenge you!!!|
Anyway, a few comments. 9...a6 is too slow and spending and the Bc8-d7-e6 is also wasteful. The Na5-b3 is played to quickly and after 15...Bxb3, both recaptures leave White's queenside virtually impenetrable.
|Jun-27-03|| ||actual: which line do you play? 9...Bd7 10 O-O-O Rc8 ? |
|Jun-27-03|| ||SicilianDragon: Yes, it is much better than 10...Qa5 |
|Jun-27-03|| ||actual: <SicilianDragon>
11. Bb3 Ne5 12. h4 Nc4 13. Bxc4 Rxc4 14. h5 Nxh5 15. g4 Nf6 16. Bh6 Nxe4! 17. Qe3 Rxc3! 18. bxc3 Nf6 19. Bxg7 Kxg7
Do you have any games with this line there's only like 1 or 2 in this database?
|Jun-27-03|| ||SicilianDragon: Just found some games but gotta run, will try to post tonight as I am leaving tomorrow (Saturday) and will be away. The critical position occurs after 19...Kxg7 and Black's compensation for the exchange comes into question. I suspect he does have compensation and the 3 main moves for White are 20. Qh6+ and Rh2. With accurate play, Black seems to be able to hold his own. I will try to post something by 9:00 PM EST on Friday June 27, thanks for being understanding |
|Jun-27-03|| ||SicilianDragon: Sorry, 2 main moves for White |
|Jun-27-03|| ||SicilianDragon: I think Black is fine because 20. Rh2 Qc7 seems fine for Black (see Degen-Schmidt, 1988). After 20. Qh6+, 20...Kh8! (Though this seems odd as it sticks the king in the corner, 20...Kh8?loses to 21. g5 Nh5 22. Rxh5 gxh5 23. Rh1 Qc8 24. Rxh5 Bf5 25. Nxf5 Qxf5 26. g6! Qxg6 27. Rg5 1-0 which is Isratescu-Milu, Ciocaltea Memorial 1994) 21. Ne2 Rg8 22. Qe3 b6 is given as unclear by Joe Gallagher in NCO. Though Gallagher recommends 20. Rh2 Rg8 in which Black has some compensation, 20...Qc7 has had excellent practical results. For these games (and more) you can use Fritz or Chessbase if you have them or you can go to Chessbase's free online database at www.chesslive.de|
|Jun-27-03|| ||mdorothy: The question then becomes, what was Fischer's excuse for losing this one?? |
|Jun-27-03|| ||Shadout Mapes: His knight sac is the obvious one, and I think trading off the dark=squared bishops would be better.|
I'd love to play you SicilianDragon, here's a link to my profile: http://gameknot.com/stats.pl?shadou...
|Jun-28-03|| ||euripides: It looks as if when he played Bf4 Fischer hoped to exploit the unusual position of the Black queen on e6.This turns out not to work and as a result Fischer has lost attacking time. |
|Aug-23-03|| ||Marnoff Mirlony: SicilianDragon, do you even know which year Fischer stated he could defeat the Dragon easily? I'd like to see someone even get a Draw out of Fischer in the Dragon in 1972. |
|Aug-23-03|| ||ughaibu: The database only gives two Fischer losses to the Dragon and no examples after 1970. Here's the other game: Fischer vs D Ballard, 1964 |
|Aug-23-03|| ||Marnoff Mirlony: Everybody knew Fischer was untouchable and eventually stopped using the Dragon against him. |
|Aug-24-03|| ||Shadout Mapes: Marnoff Mirlony, although I've always considered the dragon to be tough to play from the black side, I find your tone just a little too confident. Would you care to have a correspondence game in this line against me? My email is email@example.com if you'd like to play. |
|Nov-04-03|| ||Benzol: Here's Fischer winning with the Dragon.
Fischer vs Larsen, 1958
BTW Shadeout, did Marnoff put his money where his mouth is and take up the challenge?
|Nov-04-03|| ||Shadout Mapes: Nope. But I guess that's to be expected. |
|Oct-26-04|| ||An Englishman: Good Evening: What do you think was Fischer's biggest upset loss in a "real" tournament or match? Aside from the Munoz game, a San Francisco master named Charles Powell was allegedly the player without an international title to defeat him (sorry, don't have the game). |
|Oct-26-04|| ||Benzol: I'd go for the three games he lost to Larsen, Spassky and Najdorf in the middle of the Piatigorsky Cup 1966 tourney. He must have wondered how he could lose three in a row. |
|Oct-26-04|| ||iron maiden: How about his game against Kovacevic in Bled in 1970? He was unstoppable that whole year, but then he lost to a complete unknown, and with White at that. |
|Oct-26-04|| ||An Englishman: Good Evening: iron maiden, didn't Kovacevic have coaching for that game from GMs hoping to derail Bobby?|
Also, I was guilty of a typo in my previous post: "the player without an international title" should have been "the LAST player without an international title." My apologies.
|Oct-26-04|| ||iron maiden: <An Englishman> I don't think he had coaching, but I think it's a distinct possibility that Kovacevic spent a while preparing for Fischer's extremely predictable 1. e4. I think that loss partially contributed to the varying of Fischer's opening repertoire. |
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