< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1926 OF 1926 ·
|Apr-23-14|| ||perfidious: <Conrad: Virtue? That's an outdated concept.>|
Yours doubtless remains intact, and shall continue thus.
|Apr-23-14|| ||Joshka: <Mr1100> Many people in the chess arena owe their lively hood to Fischer! Without Bobby, chess is on the same level in the public eye as maybe bridge. Yea there were a few thousand serious players before Bobby came around (can only comment on USA involvement) Bobby brought chess to the masses. But also, this ticked off a lot of the so called high level caliber players here. It exposed the game for what it really is. They loved having it thought of as only a game for the super intelligent/didn't like the way chess got dummied down. Think a good analogy would be, if you had a group of say a thousand really good magicians, you would not want the general public to know how the tricks are performed, thus keeping the knowledge you have in the craft at arm's length away from the general public, and securing the mystery surrounding your expertise. Without Bobby, of course no million dollar purses, playing conditions would have suffered, ect. Ask and talk to the top players in the world, Bobby was the chief union steward!! He sacrificed his later childhood/teen years/and early adulthood for chess. Yes, it obviously affected his adulthood. He couldn't be everything to everybody, we need to be thankful for what he did accomplish for the popularity of the game itself. Eight years now still after his death, and no Fischer Memorial Tournament. How shameful.|
|Apr-23-14|| ||fedalio: <joshka> I agree completely! it was low taste and all for a c-list celebrity like Schaap jnr to make a tv program. You can see his show on YouTube- to be fair to Schaap he did say though "I don't think he meant it literally".|
|Apr-23-14|| ||Joshka: <Mr1100> Bobby's distain for computers probably stems from the thrashing he gave to the Greenblatt Program in Cambridge, Ma. around 1977, or 1978. He learned chess the old hard way, so he wasn't about to accept with open arms a new way to learn. Just as say, folks in my generation probably mostly prefer to listen to music thru vinyl, 45's, CD, and NOT iPOD. Although I will admit being at my desktop and going on You(jukebox)tube to hear a tune is so quick and easy;-)|
|Apr-23-14|| ||keypusher: < Without Bobby, chess is on the same level in the public eye as maybe bridge.>|
Bridge has Buffett and Gates. Chess wishes it was on the same level (in the U.S.) as bridge.
|Apr-23-14|| ||TheFocus: <HeMateMe>< He didn't have $3M in the 70s. He lived off charity from chess patrons.>
Actually, his Mother and royalty checks supported him.|
<In the 80s some Yugo scoundrel set up the $5M '92 rematch with Spassky. Since then, that guy has been a fugitive from the law, wanted for this or that financial scam.
Do you suppose he paid anyone in Iceland for the room and shelter they gave him, or did he just keep sponging off of people?>
You need to read. He paid for his apartment in Iceland himself. He didn't just keep that $3 million in the bank.
<Do you suppose he contributed any sort of money to the Polgar household while he was there, paid for anything?
While he was staying (freeloading?) with other chess people in Austria/Hungary, do you suppose he contributed any money to their households?>
How do you know that he didn't contribute? Do you have any proof? I never heard any of the Polgars say that. What is your source?
<While he was in the jail in Japan, do you suppose he actually paid for the legal help he received, or was this also charity on the part of attorneys?>
The cost was paid for, IIRC, by donations in Iceland. They were involved very early.
<Do you suppose Larry Evans was ever paid or thanked for doing all of the work for the phony Fischer book "Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess"?>
Neither Fischer nor Evans contributed to this book. It only carried Fischer's name. This is common knowledge. What rock have you been hiding under not to know this?
<Do you suppose Larry was ever paid or thanked for doing most of the work for the book M60MG?>
He did the game intros. He didn't do the analysis.
<Do you suppose Benko was ever thanked for giving up his spot in the 1970 usa zonal, so Fischer could enter the WC championship cycle?>
He laughed all the way to the bank to cash his check for giving up that spot. How do you know he wasn't thanked? He and Bobby were friends until Bobby died.
<Do you suppose the USA state department was ever thanked for not jailing him for breaking financial law when he was paid $3M to play chess in Yugoslavia in '92? They could have bagged him in five minutes, had they wanted to.>
They had until the 1970's to jail him and never did. He stopped paying his taxes in the 70's. Again, this is documented.
|Apr-23-14|| ||Joshka: <Fedalio> Well yes, but he could have said to Bobby, "Bobby, of course you KNOW my father was just being sarcastic, he was upset that you wanted 50K ( see another reason Jeremy should have read the article, he would have known why Bobby was livid!)just to talk with him!!/after you guys were friends for so many years". Then he could have added, "Bobby, doesn't 50k sound crazy to talk with a friend?" Anyway, I've only heard just snippets from that press conference, has the whole conference ever been available to the general public?|
|Apr-23-14|| ||TheFocus: <HeMateMe> <Do you suppose the USA state department was ever thanked for not jailing him for breaking financial law when he was paid $3M to play chess in Yugoslavia in '92? They could have bagged him in five minutes, had they wanted to.>|
And how would they have done that, anyway? He was in foreign countries. Do you suppose they would have asked the CIA to kidnap/snatch him? It would have been illegal for them to snatch him from a foreign country.
Of course, they could have asked Mossad to do it. That would have been ironic.
|Apr-23-14|| ||Joshka: <TheFocus> <Actually his mother, and royalty checks supported him> I sent him "birthday" checks a few times, I'd like to think he had a few good meals on me;-).....coincidently, I was living on my own at the time on the east coast (Boston) and my own loving mother would send me checks from time to time, so in some roundabout about way, I was "paying it forward".|
|Apr-23-14|| ||Joshka: <TheFocus> What I have always wondered about, was why the Clinton Administration didn't grant Bobby a full pardon? Bill was famous for giving pardons to the most unworthy and despicable folks.
Had any President taken any interest in freeing Bobby I would have thought it would have been President Clinton. Do we know if there was any special petition formally sent to President Clinton in Bobby's behalf?|
|Apr-23-14|| ||TheFocus: <Joshka> LOL! BTW, my own Mother sent me a $20 bill every year for my birthday until she passed away. I would ask her, "Mom, why do you do this? I make more money than you do?"|
Moms? They have their strange ways.
|Apr-23-14|| ||TheFocus: <Joshka> I don't know the answer to that. Our government may never grant him a pardon. Clinton pardoned drug dealers but not a chess player.|
I doubt that the USCF would ever petition them either.
|Apr-23-14|| ||fedalio: <joshka> <thefocus> I think he said in one of these interviews that there was a function at the White House in the 1990s where he was invited- it was all the people who had been on the cover of Time Life. And he was told the indictment would be taken care of but was not interested...I think he was not keen on Kervorkian being there. Also there is a letter in DeLucia's earlier book (and I am still waiting for my copy of his new one to arrive here in London) from his lawyer where getting rid of the indictment (or him paying a small fine) is mentioned. In general I don't think he was that interested. |
<joshka> we're these checks ever cashed that you sent?
|Apr-23-14|| ||keypusher: <Bobby, of course you KNOW my father was just being sarcastic, he was upset that you wanted 50K >|
I've read the article and I don't see any sign Schapp Sr. was upset by the babbling old fruitcake. He was amused. Fischer used to demand large amounts of money to talk to people all the time, though $50,000 seems like a lot even for him.
<I think he said in one of these interviews that there was a function at the White House in the 1990s where he was invited- it was all the people who had been on the cover of Time Life. And he was told the indictment would be taken care of but was not interested...>
|Apr-23-14|| ||Jim Bartle: That article was not offensive in any way. The reference to "Judge Crater" in the first paragraph is a clue it's going to be lighthearted.|
I don't understand this concept that reporters should please their subjects. Their responsibility is to their readers.
|Apr-23-14|| ||Joshka: <TheFocus> See, this is what moms do, you were blessed as well:-) I remember the advice an older veteran gave me when I was about 22 years of age. He said, "In this world, you'll have only about 2 people who will really care for you, your wife and your mother." Well I'm divorced twice, my mother passed last November, so I'm flushed out for sure:-) <Our government may never grant him a pardon> Oh it's much too late for that, who cares now, I was just wondering about Clinton's reign. Yea drug dealers he pardoned, even murderers I believe, folks accused of embezzling large amounts of cash, ect. no not chess players, and one chess player in particular. I dunno maybe there was never an official petition. <fedalio> good thanks for mentioning the lawyers letter from an earlier DeLucia book, maybe it was Bobby Fischer Uncensored? <were these checks ever cashed that you sent> yes, but never signed/only scribbled initials probably from the person handling his mail. Now that I think about it, they were sent on his Birthday's from 1983-86. His PO Box was given out at the time cause he was selling that "I Was Tortured in the Pasadena Jailhouse" for a buck!!! Think I only bought 10 copies, had I been using my head, I would have bought a hundred!!! I gave most of them away, think I have 2 left. <keypusher> Amused?? What the heck is that suppose to mean..LOLOL He was so amused he wrote that Bobby didn't have a sane bone in his body!?? No, that's not amusement;-) That's being teed off, cause your so called friend will not even speak with you unless you fork over 50K, anyway like I said whatever he felt he inflicted personal harm to Bobby, and that's all that matters. Bobby was hurt cause he felt that Schaap was acting in the role of reporter and not friend. Reporters always tried to cast Bobby in a bad light, Schaap took off his "friend" cap, in place of a reporters, and thus Bobby was hurt, and rightfully so, IMHO.|
|Apr-23-14|| ||fedalio: <Joshka> Yes, would have been Claudia Mokarow who handled his mail.|
I've always wondered if these stories about Clinton representing Georgetown at chess when he was there in the late 60s were true, and if so if he was inspired by Bobby.
Yes, the lawyer letter is in the Uncensored book....along with a plea not to go to give a press conference in Argentina in 1996 as he would say contentious things which would jeopardise the process. Another of Bobby's ex-lawyers and associates was Congressman Charles Pashayan (this was the guy who in the mid 80s introduced a bill in Congress recognising Fischer as the world champion) - but guess he saw it as a hopeless cause as it went nowhere.
Is it in Brady's book that David Oddson mentioned a pardon to a member of the Clinton Administration in the 1990s? And he was surprised a minor request such as this went nowhere, which was not in keeping with diplomatic protocol.
|Apr-23-14|| ||Jim Bartle: Speaking of endorsing checks with the signature of someone famous, Ted Williams was the head of the Jimmy Fund in Boston for many years. He personally endorsed every check sent as a donation. So anybody could get a Ted signature for a few dollars.|
|Apr-23-14|| ||Jim Bartle: Oh God, <joshka>, read the entire article and try to comprehend the tone in which it is written. The "no sane bone" is written in the same light, breezy tone.|
|Apr-23-14|| ||HeMateMe: <And how would they have done that, anyway? He was in foreign countries. Do you suppose they would have asked the CIA to kidnap/snatch him? It would have been illegal for them to snatch him from a foreign country.>|
You need to read [newspapers, and history].
A world champion of the game of chess, given a HUGE q-rating because he was the USA figurehead in the cold war with the soviets. His face is well known, in Europe.
6-2, Blond hair, 250 pounds, likes to go for long walks--alone.
Is quite likely to be in the company of professional chess players, or somewhat wealthy chess patrons. Such people's addresses can be found by checking with local chess clubs and tournament halls.
Draws money from a large prize fund earned in Yugoslavia, in 1992. Such money, about $3M, is likely to be intact, and not distributed among multiple banks. Monies are likely in Austria, Hungary, or Germany.
Do you REALLY think the State Department, CIA or Interpol could not find such a person, with a famous face, in two days, minimum? These are the people who tracked down <Carlos the Jackal>. Do you think they couldn't find Bobby Fischer's bank account, and where the money gets wired to?
Can't get a hold of him? A lot of these countries have extradition treaties with the USA. Has something to do with their being members of either NATO or the EU.
Was Benko paid cash? I have never heard of it, but if he was, then I'm totally mistaken on that one point. I thought Benko only demanded a promise from His Bobness that Fischer would not walk out on the Interzonal or Candidates matches.
Royalty checks? It dried up in the 80s, and Bob was dependant on anonymous chess benefactors.
I apologize for not following the story closely enough to know that Fischer bought an apartment in Iceland. I was under the impression that he was under the roof of his old ex-bodyguard Sami ______ (?) or wealthy Icelandic chess patrons.
The fact that his legal bills were pro bono doesn't surprise me.
I'd be very surprised if he paid anything to the people that he stayed with in Europe, while living as a fugitive from justice. It just fits his persona. The Polgars could shed some light on that, and they aren't talking. In an interview with one of the three sisters, it was delicately made clear that his anti-Jewish comments were "upsetting" to the Polgars, who are Jewish. I think they diplomatically told Bob to hit the road, at some point. We'll never know all the facts, as the sisters aren't talking about it in depth. Most likely they knew he had a few screws loose, but were willing to put up with it for awhile, to play chess against a living legend. Sort of like having DaVinci come by and sketch the members of your family. You give such a person a wide berth, even if he has flatulence and a big mouth.
I wonder who paid for Fischer's tombstone in Iceland? If I had to bet money, I bet it was paid for by the Icelandic government, and they didn't ask his Japanese mistress for a dime. If they had, she wouldn't have given them a dime. Runs in the family, I guess.
|Apr-23-14|| ||Joshka: <fedalio> No, never heard any stories of Clinton playing chess. As far as that press conference in Argentina, Bobby did give one in 1996, I have never seen the script. There is a photo of Bobby on the cover of "Ajedrez" during the press conference. I recall Mig Greengard ( close friend and confidant of Kasparov) stating he was at the press conference doing translation, and said he really had a lot of disrespect for Bobby during that time period. Wonder if it had anything to do with Bobby rapping Kasparov?;-)|
|Apr-23-14|| ||Joshka: <jimbartle> I'll state it again, and this will be the last time. It does not matter what tone, I or you believe it to be in. He was hurt by the comment, and perceived it to be in a malicious vein. Bobby was not thinking he was the subject of a reporters voice. Bobby considered him a friend and Schaap as well stated 2 or 3 times they were friends. Friends don't throw friends under the bus. But maybe you cannot comprehend this unwritten code of conduct.|
|Apr-23-14|| ||TheFocus: Bobby did say it was very hurtful to him.
I have made remarks that are sometimes meant in jest, but are perceived as hurtful by other people.
|Apr-23-14|| ||Jim Bartle: <I> can't understand?|
Schaap was a journalist. His responsibility is to the reading public, not the subject of his article, whether a friend or not.
All politicians are friends with many journalists, often close friends. These friends may write critical articles and it doesn't ruin the friendship.
If a journalist is eager to please his subject, you get ridiculous situations such as Ahmad Rashad "reporting" on his close friend Michael Jordan, and everything he says comes out as if it were from a Jordan press agent. And nobody respects Rashad.
|Apr-23-14|| ||fedalio: <joshka> If DeLucia's second book ever shows up will do a comparison of what is carried over from his first one, but in the first one there is a letter from Quinteros about this press conference - a video was made, but I think was destroyed after Bobby fell out with Quinteros and the company who made it never got paid. Who knows, perhaps it still exists somewhere in Buenos Aires and will be uncovered one day.|
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