chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

There is a clue unsolved right now on the Holiday Contest Clues Page!   [Official Contest Rules]
Please see this announcement for some updates.
(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian vs Ludek Pachman
"A Real Problem Move" (game of the day Feb-26-2002)
Bled (1961), Bled YUG, rd 6, Sep-10
Formation: King's Indian Attack (A07)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 111 times; par: 33 [what's this?]

Annotations by Robert James Fischer.      [15 more games annotated by Fischer]

explore this opening
find similar games 7 more Petrosian/Pachman games
sac: 19.Qxf6+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: If you missed a Game of the Day, you can review the last year of games at our Game of the Day Archive.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

A COMPUTER ANNOTATED SCORE OF THIS GAME IS AVAILABLE.  [CLICK HERE]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 8 OF 8 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-02-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: Too famous of a game to be a puzzle. It might work if you go with just the position and leave out the players names; but probably not since the move is so obvious anyways

Long Live Petrosian!

Even though he's dead

*****

Jul-02-16  Joseph Blackcape: Even if you don't know the game, 19. ♕xf6+ looks too tempting to pass with White's dominant black-squared Bishop and centre control and once you start analysing it, it soon turns out that once you play it, mate is just around the corner.
Sep-08-16  PJs Studio: But his games live on morphshine! Although he did die young, he was past his prime
Sep-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <YouRang....Mixing the 3rd rank with the 6th is a dead give-away that you grew up with the old descriptive chess notation....>

As we English and Spanish-speaking players all did, well into the seventies.

Sep-09-16  Howard: Several of my (old) chess books are in descriptive, in fact.

Remember the ongoing debate in Evans' column back in the mid-70's, as far as which notation was superior ?

CL&R was entirely descriptive through 1977, and then in 1978, it was a mixed bag---some of it was in descriptive, and some was algebraic. In the early part of 1979, probably the only part of it that was descriptive were the last 15, or so, games of Karpov-Korchnoi, 1978. Once that match was fully covered, it was entirely descriptive after that.

Sep-09-16  Petrosianic: The whole debate about which was "better" was silly, since International Notation was, by those standards, better than either Descriptive or Algebraic, but nobody was advocating it.
Sep-10-16  Howard: Reminds me of a letter someone wrote to Evans during that aforementioned debate in which the reader pointed out that both systems were easy to learn, and then he added, "Learn both systems and shut up."

Evans replied, "Tradition dies hard."

Jan-07-17  Sularus: nice sac.
Jan-07-17  AlicesKnight: Familiar, but pleasurable to see again, as gems often are.....
Jan-07-17  Abdel Irada: ∞

<perfidious: <YouRang....Mixing the 3rd rank with the 6th is a dead give-away that you grew up with the old descriptive chess notation....>

As we English and Spanish-speaking players all did, well into the seventies.>

In the mid- to late 80s, I played at Mechanics' Institute in San Francisco, a club with many colorful "characters."

Among them was a retired firefighter, Paul Vayssie (who, in fairness, was in his seventies). When he wasn't busy complaining about positional "chicken chess," he kvetched about algebraic notation and "alphabet soup."

Jan-07-17  ColeTrane: A rock hound like me loves this pun....
Jan-07-17  RandomVisitor: Black is ok up to 11.Nb3


click for larger view

Komodo-10.1-64bit:

<0.00/33 11...b6> 12.d4 Ba6 13.Bf4 Qc8 14.Ne5 cxd4 15.Nxd4 Nxd4 16.Qxd4 Bb7 17.Bxb7 Qxb7 18.Rad1 Rac8 19.Qd7 Rc7 20.Qd2 Nd5 21.c3 Rd8 22.Bh6 Bxe5 23.Rxe5 Rcd7 24.Rde1 f6 25.Rxe6 Nc7 26.Qe2 Nxe6 27.Qxe6+ Rf7 28.Qe8+ Rf8 29.Qe6+ Rf7

Jan-07-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place
Jan-07-17  RandomVisitor: As mentioned earlier, 18.Qxf6+ works, as in 18...Kxf6 19.Be5+ Kg5 20.Bg7


click for larger view

Komodo-10.1-64bit:

+M7/46 20. ... Qc6 21.Ne5 Kh5 22.g4+ Kg5 23.f4+ Kxf4 24.Bxc6 Kg5 25.Re4 Kh4 26.Kg2 bxc6 27.Nf3+

+M5/46 20. ... Qxc4 21.bxc4 Nf5 22.Re5 f6 23.h4+ Kg4 24.Re4+ Kh5 25.Bf3+

+M4/46 20. ... e5 21.h4+ Kg4 22.Nxe5+ Kh5 23.Bf3+ Bg4 24.Bxg4+

+M3/46 20. ... Nf5 21.f4+ Kg4 22.Ne5+ Kh5 23.Bf3+

+M3/46 20. ... Nc6 21.h4+ Kg4 22.Ne3+ Kh5 23.Bf3+

Jan-08-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: When it comes to descriptive or algebraic <[the correct name is <standard>]> notation, it helps to be fluent in both.

Here's an example where descriptive is better:
<A fianchetto is when you play P-N3 followed by B-N2.>

In algebraic that is
<A fianchetto is when one plays b2-b3 or g2-g3 followed by Bb2 or Bg3 as White, or ...b7-b6 or ...g7-g6 followed by ...Bb7 or ...Bg7 as Black.>

Jan-08-17  ughaibu: <Here's an example where descriptive is better: <A fianchetto is when you play P-N3 followed by B-N2.> In algebraic that is <A fianchetto is when one plays b2-b3 or g2-g3 followed by Bb2 or Bg3 as White, or ...b7-b6 or ...g7-g6 followed by ...Bb7 or ...Bg7 as Black.>>

So, descriptive is better because one avoids mistakes such as "Bg3"? Or algebraic is better because you write "one" instead of "you"?

Jan-08-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: <So, descriptive is better because one avoids mistakes such as "Bg3"? Or algebraic is better because you write "one" instead of "you"?>

LOL superb! That is why I don't use - in fact that that is why no one uses - descriptive! I have read magazines read by experts and there are ALWAYS error in descriptive. I am not joking, it is like one error for every three games.

Jan-16-17  Howard: Regarding offramp's point, it just goes to show that Chernev could be very superficial in his commentary. I'm surprised he didn't point that out in his TMICOCEP.
Mar-09-17  Dirkster: Games like this remind me why chess can be so damn BEAUTIFUL!!!
Dec-14-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Looking in the archives, I see this game could be the first ever GOTD on <cg> (Jan/26/2002). Well, there could be others (and there probably are), but can't find evidence of so.
Oct-04-18  deSitter: RE offramp's comment about errors in descriptive notation - I have a large library with dozens of books in descriptive notation, and there are extremely few errors in them. Don't know about magazines but it's a non-issue for books, and it's always easy to figure out what is really going on. I find descriptive much easier to read because the text layout is more favorable in almost all cases. Neither is harder than the other, they are simply different, and algebraic is harder to see on the page. I tend to read older books most of which are in descriptive notation anyway. Chess literature declined with extreme rapidity in the early 70s following the Fischer craze, and I (wrongly) associate the rise of algebraic notation in English literature with the degraded chess culture that came about in the mid to late 70s and persists to this day.
Oct-05-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Right now listen descriptive notation is useless and belongs to the time of the ancient Sumerians and it has no place in the modern world, it is an outdated and useless way of writing down chess moves and it is only used by flat-earthers and moon landing deniers why not try to enter the 21st century? what computer will recognise the RIDICULOUS and SUPERFLUOUS descriptive stupid notation? Etc.
Oct-05-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: So, <offramp>, I will assume from now on that you don't like the descriptive notation.

<deSitter>, please explain what do you mean by "...the degraded chess culture...". It sounds interesting.

Oct-24-18  Violin sonata: Where is fischer annotated this game? There is no information about it
Dec-09-18  DonChalce: Petrosian is such a meme lol
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 8)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 8 OF 8 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.


NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
KayN's favorite games
by KayN
Reti vs 1...c5
from Opening repertoire key games by JoseTigranTalFischer
Queen's sac.
from lemgelo's favorite games with white by lemgelo
8
from 51 incredible short games Compiled by tommy boy by fredthebear
Game 58
from Instructive Games (Chernev) by howardb86
King's Indian Attack
by ALL
Enigma Variations
by otto80
Soviet Chess (USSR)
by Owl
KIA Miniature
from Nikki Some of reurbz's Favorite Games by fredthebear
Surprise! Surprise
from The most instructive games of chess ever played by monet11
BobgJ's favorite games
by BobgJ
wild games 3
by wwm
Petrofied
from Puns I submitted by Hello Kitty
sac
from PeterPringle's favorite games by PeterPringle
dagano's favorite games
by dagano
Queen sacrifices- 2
by obrit
Petrosian
by diemjay
"A Real Problem Move"
from more miniatures by goodevans
Petrosian
by ALL


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC