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Later Kibitzing> |
Dec-20-03
 | | STYNTZ: 10 O-O is an insidious trap. who could resist the "free" h pawn.from there it is a virtually forced 11 move combo. AMAZING!! |
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| Dec-20-03 | | Brian Watson: Yes an amazing game. 10..Qxh4 gave black a lot of counterplay, it's amazing that white could see that black's threats were not dangerous. Why not 16..Bxe5, threatening 17..Bg4? Perhaps the reason for 16..f6 instead is: 16..Bxe5 17.Rxf2 Bf4+ (if Kxf7, 18.Qxh5+ w/ multiple threats)18.Kd3 (18.Bxf4 Qxd5 and I think black safely picks up material)Bxh6 19.Qxh5 Qh2 . . . not sure what happens next |
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| Dec-20-03 | | Brian Watson: or similarly, why not 13..Bxe5 (again threatening Bg4) before ..Qh2+ ? e.g.: 13..Bxe5 14.Re3 Qh2+ 15.Kf1 Qh1+ 16.Ke2 Qxg2+ 17.Kd3 Nf4+ 18.Bxf4 Bxf4 19.Re8+ Kg7 and black wiggles free. |
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| Dec-21-03 | | Brian Watson: There's a typo in the first variation I suggested:
16..Bxe5 17.Rxf7 not Rxf2.
And idea is wrong anyway:
16..Bxe5 17.dxe5 Bg4 18.Rxf7 Kxf7 (forced) 19.Qxg4
But the second variation still looks sound to me because: 13..Bxe5 14.dxe5 Bg4 15.Rxf7 Qh2+ leads to mate |
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Dec-21-03
| | STYNTZ: there are 2 games identical in the database. the only diference is the 16th move. one is k-e3 the other k-d3.
same players,same year. i expect one is a` typo.
brian i cannot find a flaw in your analysis unless after 14 --- bg4
15 e6 Qh2+ 16 Kf1 Qh1+ 17 Kd2
Qxg2+ Kd3 Bxf3 18 Qf1 now if QxQ RxQ and blk must loose at least a knight to stop the e pawn. eg Fxe6
Dxf6 and blk is helpless against Bc4 |
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Dec-22-03
| | STYNTZ: i dont have acsess to a chess engine so i have no way to verify my analysis.but i would be interested if i am correct or not.i am a beginner (2 yrs )so i am probbably missing something. |
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| Dec-23-03 | | Brian Watson: in the line you suggested Styntz, you have 17..Qxg2+ followed by Bxf3. But i think black would play 17..Bxf3+, then exchange queens with check, and then exchange the center pawns. |
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Dec-27-03
| | STYNTZ: 2 players, with peices and a board,and
unlimited time have done what steinitz did in his head.UNBELEIVABLE.
i followed your last line and even playing 14 Be8 instead yor line still holds ie 13 --- Bxe5 14 dxe5 Bg4
15 Be8 Qh2+ 16 Kf1 Qh1+ 17 Ke2 Bxf3+
18 gxf3 Qxd1 19 Kxd1 g2 and white must use the black bishop to prevent queening so that he is ONLY down a rook!steintz is lucky that he wasnt playing either of us, LOL |
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| Dec-27-03 | | ughaibu: How about 13....Be5 14.e5 Bg4 15.e6 Qh2 16.Kf1 Qh1 17.Ke2 Qg2 18.Ke3 Qf3 19.Qf3 Bf3 20.Be8 e6 21.e6 Ng7 22.Bf7 Kf8 23.Kf3? Although I reckon 23....Nc6 should still win easily enough. |
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Dec-28-03
| | STYNTZ: so we are all in agreement that 13--Bxe5 leads to a win for black. is it possible that steinitz missed this rather obvious move or did he have a resource that we have not found yet?
it may be that he knew that his opponent would not hesitate to attack
the king and only looked that far ahead. no matter, it is still a fascinating game. |
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| Jan-01-04 | | refutor: steinitz as the "austrian morphy", no doubt :) |
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| Jan-17-04 | | pilot: I'm not entirely convinced that 13..Bxe5 is winning for black. Because after 14.Rxf7 Bd6 15.Qf3 I think White has a win along the f-file. |
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| Jan-18-04 | | Brian Watson: by the way, i myself was only suggesting black missed a better defence, not a win. i don't understand your analysis. If 13..Bxe5 14.Rxf7, then surely either:
14..Kxf7 15.Qf3+ Bf6
or
14..Qh2+ 15.Kf1 Qh1+ etc. |
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| Aug-01-04 | | Knight13: Very good game. |
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| Mar-13-05 | | ksadler: If Black declines the Knight sacrifice with a move like 17. .. Qh2 , how does White proceed? |
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Jun-18-05
 | | samvega: I think 17..Qh2 18.Nc3 keeps the attack going. |
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| Jun-18-05 | | Boomie: 13...♕h2+ is premature. Better to hold this in reserve since white has material hanging in this position. 13... f6 14. ♗e8
(14. ♗c4 b5 15. ♗b3 ♕h2+ 16. ♔f1 a5)
14... ♘g7 15. ♗f7+ ♔f8 16. ♕d2 ♘d7
(16... ♗xe5 17. dxe5 ♔xf7 18. ♖xf6+ ♔g8 19. ♕f4 ♕h2+ 20. ♔f1 ♕h1+ 21. ♔e2 ♕xg2+ 22. ♔e3 =) 17. ♕f4 ♕xf4 18. ♗xf4 ♘xe5 19. dxe5 ♗c5+ 20. ♔h1 ♔xf7 21. ♗xg3 c6  (-1.54) D=13) |
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| Oct-14-07 | | Calli: Steinitz probably announced mate in four after 17...fxe5. His opponent was Dr. W.J. Wilson according to the tournament book. |
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| Jan-14-11 | | Spasskyfan22: I prefer the more aggressive Steinitz over the passive one.. win or lose. |
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| Feb-13-14 | | thomastonk: Not only the tournament book, but also "The Era" gives Dr. Wilson as Black (see issue of October 26, 1862). So, I'll submit a correction slip, wherein I'll suggest Black by William John Wilson. |
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| Mar-16-14 | | Xeroxx: nice check mate |
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Sep-28-14
| | sachistu: To which tournament book are you referring <calli>? Are you referring to the BCA Congress in London 1862? If so, I'm having trouble locating that game. |
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| Nov-19-14 | | Ke2: better is 19... Qd5! |
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| Nov-19-14 | | shivasuri4: 19...Be6 just ends the horror show a move earlier. Better probably is 19...Resigns. |
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Dec-26-19
 | | mifralu: Probably James Wilson Rimington-Wilson ? <Game collections record our man playing two games with <Wilhelm Steinitz> at the congress, winning one with White, and losing the other with Black. These were probably casual games, as they are not indexed in the tournament book.> http://mannchess.org.uk/People/Rimi... According to <"The Sporting Gazette, 22 November 1862, p. 63">
White played < 16. Kd3 > and Black resigned after < 19. d6+ > |
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Kibitzing
sac: 17.Bc4