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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Aug-17-09
 | | LIFE Master AJ: According to the Informant, this game went 72 moves ... I pick it up with Black's 60th move.
60...Ke4; 61.Kc4 Rd4+;
<[61...Kf4 62.Kc5 Ra6 63.Kb5=]> 62.Kc3 Rd6; 63.Kc4 Kf4; 64.Kc5 Ke5; 65.Kc4 Ke4; 66.Kb4T, <[66.Kc3 Kf4; 66.Kc5 Rd5+]> 66...Kd4; 67.Kb5 Kd5; 68.Kb4 Rc6; 69.Kb3,
<[69.Kb5 Rd6 70.Kb4 Kd4 71.Kb5=]> 69...Kc5!?;
<[69...Kd4 70.Kb4=]> 70.Kc3 Rd6; 71.Nh7?,
<[71.Kb3=]>
71...Rd8; 72.Nf6T Rd4?;
White resigned.
<[72...Rd4? 73.Kc2 Kd6 74.Kc3 Ke5]> 0-1 |
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Aug-17-09
 | | al wazir: Who are the "people who count points"? Well, I am one of them. But it seems to me that solving a Sunday puzzle should earn a lot more points than solving a Monday puzzle. Until someone comes up with a better system, here are the rules governing mine: A) 1 point for Monday, 2 for Tuesday, 3 for Wednesday, and so on. Thus the maximum number of points that can be won in a week is 28. B) Partial credit for partial solutions. (Yes, I know that's very subjective.) A complete solution takes into account *all* of the opponent's possible rejoinders. C) When I don't get a chance to work on a puzzle I assume that if I had tried to solve it I would have earned a score consistent with my average. That is, I award myself a number of points equal to the ordinal number of the day (M=1, Tu=2, W=3, etc.) multiplied by my average weekly score divided by 28. I'd be interested in knowing if anyone averages 25 or better. My average is under 20. The exact number is classified. |
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Aug-17-09
| | LIFE Master AJ: [Event "World Cup"]
[Site "Reykjavik, ICE 46/626"]
[Date "1988.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Portisch, L."]
[Black "Korchnoi, V."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D87"]
[WhiteElo "2630"]
[BlackElo "2595"]
[PlyCount "144"]
[EventDate "1988.??.??"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 c5 7. Bc4 Bg7 8. Ne2 O-O 9. O-O Nc6 10. Be3 Bg4 11. f3 Na5 12. Bxf7+ Rxf7 13. fxg4 Rxf1+ 14. Kxf1 Qc8 15. Qa4 cxd4 16. cxd4 Nc4 17. Bf4 a6 18. g5 b5 19. Qb3 e5 20. dxe5 Qc6 21. Rd1 Rf8 22. Rd5 Qxd5 23. exd5 Nd2+ 24. Ke1 Nxb3 25. axb3 Rd8 26. d6 Kf7 27. Kd2 Re8 28. d7 Ra8 29. Nd4 Ke7 30. Kd3 Kxd7 31. Ke4 Rd8 32. h4 Bf8 33. e6+ Ke8 34. Be5 Bc5 35. Nc6 Rd1 36. b4 Bd6 37. Bxd6 Rxd6 38. Nd4 Ke7 39. Ke5 a5 40. bxa5 b4 41. Ke4 Ke8 42. Ke5 Ra6 43. Nb3 Ke7 44. Kd5 Rxe6 45. Kc5 Kd7 46. Kxb4 Re4+ 47. Kb5 Rxh4 48. Nc5+ Kc7 49. a6 Rh1 50. Ne6+ Kd6 51. Nd4 Rb1+ 52. Ka5 Kc5 53. Ne6+ Kd5 54. Nf8 Kc6 55. Nxh7 Kc5 56. Ka4 Ra1+ 57. Kb3 Rxa6 58. Nf8 Rd6 59. Kc3 Kd5 60. g4 Ke4 61. Kc4 Rd4+ 62. Kc3 Rd6 63. Kc4 Kf4 64. Kc5 Ke5 65. Kc4 Ke4
66. Kb4 Kd4 67. Kb5 Kd5 68. Kb4 Rc6 69. Kb3 Kc5 70. Kc3 Rd6 71. Nh7 Rd8 72. Nf6 Rd4 0-1 The above is the COMPLETE game score, if anyone wants to upload this and correct your source. |
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| Aug-17-09 | | lzromeu: There are so much after move 22 until the end that can dream our monday philosophy |
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| Aug-17-09 | | Summerfruit: White is two pawns up.
22...Qxd5 23.exd5 Nd2+
Wins the exchange, but leaves white with two connected passed pawns. |
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| Aug-17-09 | | wals: [Event "Reykjavik"]
[Site "Reykjavik"]
[Date "1988.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Lajos Portisch"]
[Black "Viktor Korchnoi"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D87"]
[Annotator "Rybka 3 1-cpu (30m)"]
[PlyCount "122"]
D87: Exchange Grünfeld: Classical Line: Variations without ...cxd4 1. d4 Nf6
2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 c5 7. Bc4 Bg7 8. Ne2 O-O 9.
O-O Nc6 10. Be3 Bg4 (10... cxd4 11. cxd4 ) 11. f3 White threatens to
win material: f3xg4 (Inferior is 11. dxc5 Qxd1 12. Rfxd1 Ne5 ) 11... Na5
(11... Bd7 12. dxc5 Qc7 13. a4 ) 12. Bxf7+ Double attack: c5/f7 Rxf7 (
12... Rxf7 13. fxg4 Zwischenzug) (12... Kxf7 13. fxg4+ Double attack (13.
fxg4+ Zwischenzug)) 13. fxg4 Rxf1+ 14. Kxf1 White has new doubled pawns:
g2+g4 Qc8 (14... Qd6 15. Kg1 (15. dxc5 Qxh2 16. Ng1 Rf8+ (16... Bxc3
17. Rc1 Rf8+ 18. Nf3 ) 17. Nf3 Nc6 )) 15. Qa4 (15. h3 cxd4 16. cxd4
Nc4 ) 15... cxd4 (15... Qxg4 16. Ng3 (16. Qxa5 Qxe4 17. Bf4 cxd4 18.
cxd4 Rf8 ) 16... cxd4 17. cxd4 ) 16. cxd4 (16. Bxd4 Nc4 ) 16... Nc4
17. Bf4 (17. Qb3 Qc6 ) 17... a6 18. g5 (18. Qb3) 18... b5 19. Qb3
e5 20. dxe5 Qc6 ♗lack threatens to win material: ♕c6xe4 (20... Qe6 21. Rd1
) 21. Rd1 (21. Qd3 Rf8 22. Rc1 Bxe5 ) 21... Rf8 (21... Qxe4 22. Rd4 Qf5
23. Qd3 Qxd3 24. Rxd3 Bxe5 25. Bxe5 Nxe5 26. Rd4 ) 22. Rd5 (22. Qd3 Bxe5 23.
g3 h6 ) 22... Qxd5 23. exd5 White wins the queen Nd2+ 24. Ke1 Nxb3 25.
axb3 Rd8 (25... Rf5 26. g4 Rxf4 27. Nxf4 Bxe5 28. Ne6 ) 26. d6 A
strong pawn Kf7 27. Kd2 Re8 28. d7 (28. Kd3 would allow White to play on
Rxe5 29. Bxe5 Bxe5 30. d7 ) 28... Ra8 29. Nd4 Ke7 30. Kd3 Kxd7 31. Ke4
Rd8 32. h4 Bf8 33. e6+ (33. g4 Rc8 34. Bd2 Ba3 ) 33... Ke8 34. Be5 (34.
g4 Rc8 ) 34... Bc5 (34... Rc8 35. g4 ) 35. Nc6 (35. Bf6 Rc8 36. Ne2
) 35... Rd1 36. b4 (36. g3 Be7 ) 36... Bd6 37. Bxd6 (37. g3 Re1+ 38.
Kd5 Bxe5 39. Nxe5 Rd1+ 40. Kc5 Ke7 $19) 37... Rxd6 38. Nd4 Ke7 ♗lack loses
the upper hand (38... Rd8 and ♗lack can look forward to a
comfortable game) 39. Ke5 (39. g4 ) 39... a5 40. bxa5 b4 41. Ke4 Ke8
42. Ke5 Ra6 43. Nb3 Ke7 44. Kd5 Rxe6 (44... Rd6+ 45. Kc4 Rxe6 46. Nd4 ) 45.
Kc5 (45. Nd4 Re1 46. Nc6+ Kd7 47. Nxb4 ) 45... Kd7 46. Kxb4 Re4+ 47.
Kb5 (47. Kc5 Kc7 48. g3 ) 47... Rxh4 48. Nc5+ Kc7 49. a6 Rh1 50.
Ne6+ (50. Nd3 Rg1 51. Nf4 Kb8 ) 50... Kd6 51. Nd4 Rb1+ 52. Ka5 (52. Kc4 Kc7
) 52... Kc5 53. Ne6+ Kd5 54. Nf8 (54. Nd8 Kd6 ) 54... Kc6 55. Nxh7 Kc5
56. Ka4 Ra1+ (56... Kc4 makes it even easier for ♗lack 57. Ka5 Rb5+
58. Ka4 ) 57. Kb3 Rxa6 58. Nf8 Rd6 59. Kc3 Kd5 60. g4 Ke4 61. Kc4 Rd4+ (
61... Rd4+ 62. Kc3 Rd5 63. Nxg6 Rxg5 ) 0-1
The above may be of interest to those seeking help. |
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| Aug-17-09 | | SuperPatzer77: <LIFE Master AJ: > Your analysis shows that 71. Nh7? Rd8, 72. Nf6 Rd4? I think that it should be 72...Rd4! instead of 72...Rd4? I mean 72...Rd4? or Rd4! - which one is right?
72...Rd4! is right, isn't it?
I appreciate your explanation of 72...Rd4 if you wanna show us how it does. Thanks for your excellent analysis.
SuperPatzer77 |
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| Aug-17-09 | | WhiteRook48: 22....Rxf4+ 23 Nxf4 Nd2+ tried but doesn't work |
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| Aug-17-09 | | lzromeu: correcting:
There are more moves in this puzzle after move 22, Than are dreamt of in 'MY' monday philosophy. Tks <wals>
<LIFE Master AJ '66. Kb4...' > In my line: 66. kb5 draws. Can you refute this? |
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Aug-17-09
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Now I'm intrigued. After 72...Rd4!? where's the win?
click for larger viewWhite has 73 Nh7. ( If black follows with 73...Rxg4, below, it is a table base draw because 74 Nf8 then 75 Nxg6 cannot be stopped).
click for larger view
After Nh7, if black follows with 73...Rf4, then white has 74 Kd3. Again, if 74…Rxg4 it is a table base draw because white’s king can gain position on black’s king. Specifically, 75 Nf8 Rd4+ 76 Ke3 Rd6 77 Ke4 holds the fort.
click for larger view |
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Aug-17-09
| | LIFE Master AJ: <SuperPatzer 77>
My initial analysis seems to indicate that 72...Rd4? BLOWS THE WIN. However, it was done in around half an hour, its possible that the computer is wrong. (I can show you dozens of games where the computer is completely mistaken about an endgame.) One of my students - John Laning - played a training game with a friend. The final endgame was drawn, I played over fifty moves against the computer without it winning. (Fritz's evaluation was that Black was winning by close to - or over - four points.) Another good example is Game # 7 of the 2008 Anand-Kramnik match. Some computers give the final position as winning for White by 2-3 points. However, the game is absolutely drawn. This led the ChessBase commentator to remark: <"Health warning: please ignore your computers, they are counting beans, not blockades ... which some of them
don't really get." - IM M. Pein.> |
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Aug-17-09
 | | OBIT: <Life Master AJ>Chess engines can be wrong. Tablebases never are. Interestingly, the game analysis from <wals>, which I presume is from Informant, ends with 61... Rd4+ 62. Kc3 Rd5 63. Nxg6 Rxg5. This is a tablebase draw. Every line <jimfromprovidence> looked at is also a tablebase draw. I could be wrong (as I often am), but it's looking to me like Portisch resigned in a drawn position. |
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Aug-17-09
| | LIFE Master AJ: <OBIT> I just purchased the latest Tablebase (endgame) set ... it comes on a seven-volume DVD set. I have not yet installed it on my computer ... |
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Aug-17-09
| | LIFE Master AJ: <OBIT> Are you aware of my earlier posts? Did you know that the score of the game here ... is OFF by over 10 moves? |
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Aug-17-09
| | LIFE Master AJ: <OBIT> By the way, one of the earliest TB's contained several errors. I documented that fact on my GC site dedicated to endgames. |
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Aug-17-09
| | OBIT: Yeh, I know about the ten missing moves. Anyway, I think I see a win. I'm looking it over before I post it. |
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Aug-17-09
| | LIFE Master AJ: Then you agree with me that 72...Rd4 blew the win? (I - now - have been looking at this all day with Fritz.) |
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Aug-17-09
| | OBIT: Eh, maybe not. Man, tricky ending!
I wasn't convinced 72...Rd4 blows the win, figuring if the rook is on the wrong square, it's not too late to fix that. However, it's not clear if there is a RIGHT square. :) |
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| Aug-17-09 | | gofer: 22 ... Qxd5 winning the rook, because white cannot play 23 exd5 as black plays 23 ... Nd2+ winning the queen. Time to check... |
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Aug-17-09
| | OBIT: OK, I am officially giving up on finding the win in this endgame. Just one thing bothers me: Did Portisch resign during adjournment? Move 72 sounds like a logical place for the second adjournment. If that is the case, those crack analytic teams for the players must have found some way to win this. On the other hand, maybe they thought they found something that isn't actually there. |
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| Aug-18-09 | | David2009: Monday's puzzle Portisch vs Korchnoi, 1988 Black to play 22...Qxd5
etc.
======
I completely failed to see what was going on here. I came to the problem late in the evening, quick glance,
"nice combination, exchanges into a winninng ending with the remote passed a-pawn" As it was Monday I didn't bother to post before looking at the game. I was very impressed with Korchnoi's 25 Rd8
("!! - weakening the Pawns by forcing a weakening advance to the same colour square as the Bishop - endgame class"), and stopped my intial play through after he had won a Pawn back. At this stage I started to read the kibitzes and also started to realise I had seen absolutely NOTHING except the initial "Monday combination." Thus 28 Kd3! from <RandomVisitor> instead of 28. d7 as played refutes the whole blockade since after 28 ...Bxe5
29 d7! wins material. Off to bed.
I have come back to this on Tuesday morning in time to read the superbly well informed overnight comments from <LIFE Master AJ>, <JimfromProvidence> and <OBIT>. Thanks, folks! |
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Aug-18-09
| | LIFE Master AJ: <OBIT> I am not sure what happened in this game ... too long ago. (I think this game was annotated in the INFORMANT, but that is all symbols. Not much other info there.) My computer - also - seems to think the final position is drawn. However, a very similar endgame position was won by the stronger side, so I'm not sure. (It might take days of analysis to figure out for sure ... even I do not have that kind of time.) |
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Aug-19-09
| | OBIT: OK, I think I have it... a way to win the ending, that is. In the complete game score supplied by <AJ Life Master>, let's take what appears to be the most efficient route to victory and play 69...Kd4 (instead of 69...Kc5). White's best try is 70. Kb4, putting the king on his best square, but then Black can play 70...Rd6!, forcing the king to move off that square. Then after 71. Kb3 (for 71. Ka4, see the next paragraph) Rb6+ 72. Ka4 (72. Kc2 Ke3 followed by Kf4 wins, as now the White king is too far from the rook) Kc4 73. Ka3 (of course, 73. Ka5? Rb5+ and Rxg5) Rb3+! 74. Ka2 (74. Ka4? Rb8) Rb5! (74...Kc3!? may be faster, since 75. Nxg6? Rb2+ 76. Ka3 Rb6 or 76. Ka1 Kc2 wins immediately. However, 75. Ne6 will take a little analysis.) 75. Nxg6 Rxg5, and this IS a tablebase win. As for other tries for White:
70. Ka4 allows 70...Kc4 immediately (don't need the Rd6 waiting move); then 71. Ka3 Kc3 72. Ka4 (or 72. Ka2 Rb6 73. Nd7 Rb2+ 74. Ka1 Kc2 wins) Rc4+ 73. Kb5 Rxg4 wins. This same idea works after 70.Kb4 Rd6 71. Ka4 (instead of 71. Kb6) Kc4, i.e. the same sequence works whether the rook is on c4 or d4. 70. Ka3 Kc3 (or 70. Kb4 Rd6 71. Ka3 Kc3) transposes to the above line. 70. Kb4 Rd6 71.Nh7 takes the pressure off the rook, giving the Black king time to go after the kingside pawns: 71...Ke4 71. Kc5 Rd5+ 72. Kc4 Ra5 73. Kb4 Re5 74. Kc4 Kf4 73. Kd4 Rxg5, for example. That should do it! I'd bet Portisch resigned during adjournment. |
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Aug-21-09
| | LIFE Master AJ: <Obit> Wow! (If this checks out, that's some good work!) |
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| Aug-09-13 | | csmath: This game is less relevant for theory any more. Portisch simply got tricked in the opening. Here is more relevant game, model opening play by Seirawan: Seirawan vs Kudrin, 1989 |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 22...Qxd5