Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
George Marshall Norman vs Andre Lilienthal
Hastings (1934/35), Hastings ENG, rd 4, Dec-31
Semi-Slav Defense: Main Lines (D45)  ·  1/2-1/2


explore this opening
find similar games 601 more games of Lilienthal
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: All games have a Kibitzer's Corner provided for community discussion. If you have a question or comment about this game, register a free account so you can post there.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
Sep-11-04  mjk: 66.♔d6 and 68.♔e8 were not best defense, but should still lose. White strays from the fastest win as 69...♘e5 mates in 30. Finally 76...♘d5? 77.b4! lets White escape. <-- Nalimov Tablebase Server>

Maybe Lilienthal studied after this game, but he played out a draw in Smyslov vs Lilienthal, 1940

Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: K+2N vs. K+P is a notoriously difficult game to win. I suspect Lilienthal knew he wasn't going to win that way, so he hoped to set up a blunder trap (diagram after 81...Kd7 - white to move):

click for larger view

Black is hoping for 82. b7??? Ne6#, but white didn't fall for it.

As <mjk> pointed out, black had a win. In fact, at move 75 he had mate-in-28 with 75...Kf6, but he played 75. Nf3? (mate-in-40), then gave up the win completely with 76...Nd5.

The winning technique in such a game is:

(1) Block the pawn with one knight.

(2) Use the other knight and king to force the opposing king into a corner. (The further advanced the pawn, the harder it is to find a corner and the right tempo that mates.) This is very difficult! The king and knight must do a very long and strange dance to work this out.

(3) At the right time (when the opposing king is sufficiently cornered), the knignt that was blocking the pawn approaches the cornered king with mating attack. This isn't quite as difficult as step 2, but it's riskier! If you time it wrong, the pawn may promote -- and then you lose!

Feb-08-09  WhiteRook48: 82. Kg7!! is one of the greatest drawing moves
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <YouRang: ... If you time it wrong, the pawn may promote -- and then you lose!>

Well, maybe. King and two well-placed knights can hold the draw against a queen. Weirdly, there seem to be no examples of that ending in the database, although there are nine endings with queen versus bishop and knight (the worst set of two minor pieces with which to oppose the queen). Endgame Explorer: Q vs BN

Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <Well, maybe. King and two well-placed knights can hold the draw against a queen. Weirdly, there seem to be no examples of that ending in the database>

That is rather weird that there's no games ending with Q vs 2N.

And yes, reviewing the tablebase shows that there are lots of positions where the 2N can hold the draw. However, regardless of the forced outcome, it's not an easy task for either side. For example, the position below:

click for larger view

As white, you can force mate in 43 moves -- but only if you find Qe2!

Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <YouRang> Queen against two knights is apparently quite rare.'s Endgame Explorer specifies that the pieces must remain on the board for three moves (six ply) for the endgame to be counted. This avoids scooping up, for example, (1) the conclusion of NN v. P endings where the pawn queens and then the other side immediately mates, or (2) the pawn queens and a knight captures it, or (3) more complicated endings where the queen sacrifices itself to produce a drawn NN ending (for example, I saw a game with Q v. RNN where the side with the queen sacrificed the queen with QxR+ to avoid the risk of loss). I found only five games in Mega Database 2013 with Q v. NN that meet the 3 moves/6 ply criterion. As I recall, there are about 5.5 million games in that database, so it's literally a one-in-a-million type phenomenon.
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
Two Knights versus Pawn
by Resignation Trap
A classic missed opportunity (in Fine's Basic Chess Endings)
from NN vs P: unheard melodies by David2009
senakash's favorite games part 2
by senakash
Boriescu - bastrikova
from Voraces 2019 by Enjoy live
NN vs P
from Endgame Studies by FENfiend
Tricky K+2N vs. K+P endgame - drawn when "trick" fails
from Games analyzed by YouRang by YouRang
Round 4 (Monday, December 31)
from Hastings 1934/35 by Phony Benoni
Black's 62nd, White's 63rd, Black's 76th
from Annotated by Tablebase by Judah

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2018, Chessgames Services LLC