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Rafael Vaganian vs George Steven Botterill
Hastings 1974  ·  Trompowsky Attack: General (A45)  ·  1-0


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Given 27 times; par: 23 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing >
Feb-09-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jack Kerouac: Well,Neal's 80th birthday bash yesterday was a hoot. Too bad he died in 1967.
Feb-09-06   Cogano: Hi <Castle In The Sky> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. Thanks for sharing the joke. Great one. By the way, if you'll forgive my ignorance, in what country's/ culture's mythology can one find the goddess Caissa? Thanks much for the help. Take very good care & have a great day. Cheers mate!
Feb-09-06   Nostalgia: <Cogano>
Thanks for the suggestions. I did talk with a native Russian speaker that I work with, and he had never heard of "kibitz", "kibi" or "itz". He said he would ask around his family for me. :)

He also emailed me:

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/ind...

-Joe

Feb-09-06   drnooo: last two moves are the toughest here: first series easy. But the precise continuation after that is a little rougher, though there is so little fight left by then any number of continuations are lethal.
Feb-09-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  ganstaman: Ok, here's how I see it. <iamverywellatchess> is just here to joke around and have fun. Nothing he says is true or of any value. He purposefully uses poor spelling and grammar (just check out his name) to make his character seem funnier. Therefore, kibitz is not in any way Russian. Even if <iamverywellatchess> is not a joke, kibitz is a Yiddish word. Not only has this been confirmed by various sites posted here, but any Jew can tell you this as well.

And if <iamverywellatchess> is not a joke, then he is the most pompous, hate-able, chess playing foreign member of this site, and we would do well to ignore him (or laugh if you can).

And Ne7 is definitely the prettiest move of the game. At first it doesn't look all that impressive, but then you start to notice how much it really does. It would have taken me some time to resign if I were black here.

Feb-09-06   blingice: Haha, dude, I'm laughing at every one of his posts. Its funny that a person that can't even speak English is attempting to prove etymology.

I also think it's funny that he claims he is "very well at chess" but thinks that when you promote a pawn, promoting it to "a horse" is about as good as promoting to Q.

Feb-09-06   Jim Bartle: That's not the correct term: it's "horsie."
Feb-09-06   Stonewaller2: <YouRang: Young lapwings are proverbially precocious and active, and were said to run around with half-shells still on their heads soon after hatching.> Kibitzers on the half-shell?

<Cogano: in what country's/ culture's mythology can one find the goddess Caissa?> My recollection is that "Caissa" was the relatively modern invention of some romantic poet who wanted an embodiment of Chess for his work, and that she was originally a sort of tenth Muse rather than a goddess. But when I was running a C team in the Washington, DC Chess League the plaques they gave out as trophies had a medal on them with a chessboard, a crown and the legend, "Diva Caissa."

Feb-09-06   Rastus: Where is Sam Sloan when you need him?
Feb-09-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Moondoll: I didn't get this at all. I didn't really look at it that long, but all i saw were developing moves. Didn't smell the attack at all. Should work on that probably... Very nice attack though.
Feb-09-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Moondoll: oh, and i can't enjoy chessgames.com at work anymore. sad day. Hooray for Chessgames.com!
GO TOPALOV!!!
Feb-09-06   Cogano: Hello <Stonewaller2> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. Thank you kindly for offering that explanation. It may not have completely clarified the issue, but at least it shed some light on it & added more aspects to it. Evidently, from what was written on the plaques, the word is Latin, as Diva most surely is! Thanks again. Take very good care & have a great day. Cheers mate!
Feb-09-06   hayton3: Greetings <Cogano> I hope my missive finds you in good health and that my unsolicited intrusion in your amicable dealings with the good kibitzers of this site is not tainted by any impression of impertinence. I do beg to query your frequent employment of an unctuously amenable inoffensiveness when addressing other kibitzers and that by its very frequency this form of address may take on a veneer of banality and insincerity contrary to its semantic purport. I hope you are having a great day and I wish to apologise if my missive is seen as anything other than a humble observation. Thanks my friend.
Feb-09-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: White demolishes Black's Kingside pawn structure with the surprise 11. Bxf7+!! for a winning attack.
Feb-09-06   Cogano: Hello <hayton3> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. Thank you kindly for taking the time to point that out to me. First, what you said doesn't offend me, so rest easy about that. And while what you said is a good point, I think that that's mostly an impression formed by those who practice a different philosophy & thus suspect dignified behaviour for being banal. When a person has decided that their value is low, if not 0, then their impression of others' actions is tainted by the environment to which they've chosen to descend. Furthermore, by assigning themselves such low value, they end up mistreating themselves, & thus others, which involves employing the very practice, among others, they suspect others of. For me, being polite had nothing to do with "treat others as you would have others treat you", but rather with my own philosophy that how one treats others reflects how they already treat themselves. So being polite is a consequence of my trying my utmost best to treat myself as well as I can as much & as often as I can. So thank you again for pointing that out & warning me of others' potential course(s) of action. Warning received & noted. But, if anyone is deluded enough to demean themselves to do so, then that is their problem & I'm not obliged to follow their example. I will continue to do my best to treat & conduct myself with dignity. Take very good care & have yourself a most joyous day, every day. Cheers mate!
Feb-10-06   Fezzik: Iamverywellatchess:

Ochen' khorosho! I love your sense of humor! Of course kibitz is Yiddish, and of course you were joking. It's even more funny that so many people have taken you seriously. Well done!

Feb-10-06   Nostalgia: <Fezzik> Yes, iamverywell is a umnyjj mal'chik if he is pulling our legs. However, being the curious type, and the type who likes word origins, I was hoping to find a new one for kibitz. No such luck today, I guess :)
Feb-10-06   Stonewaller2: more on Caissa from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caissa). Sir William James's poem "Caissa" was based on an earlier work composed in Latin by the Bishop of Alba, Marcus Vida, and called "Scaccia Ludus" (The Game of Chess). There's a pic at http://www.extremechess.net/chessar.... In the James poem, Caissa was a dryad beloved by Mars, the god of war, but who rejected him, so Mars asked an otherwise unidentified God of Sport to invent a game to charm her heart.

And any of us who have tried to woo a lady across the 64 squares know about how well that one works . . .

Back to the game, I think it's a good argument for ... gxf6 in the Trompowski myself.

Finally, I don't want to get off on a rant here, but being too polite to each other would be a good problem for us to have. ;)

Feb-11-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <Cogano> I enjoyed your commentary on polite behavior and its relationship to positive self-esteem. An article at http://www.mindpub.com/art105.htm supports your premise:

<Individuals with truly high self esteem feel good about themselves and continue believing in themselves regardless of what others think of them. Some people feel good about themselves only as long as others support them and approve of them. The moment another person criticizes them, or withdraws her or his support from them...>

I for one see your courteous and polite posts as a sincere reflection of high self-esteem and good character.

Feb-11-06   hayton3: Sorry - more psychological tosh. People who bang on about self-esteem have a problem with it - they have none.
Feb-11-06   hayton3: All are welcome to join my self-esteem clinic for free. Guaranteed results - one session and you won't be afraid of posting your loses on this site - rumour has it <tpstar> may be interested...
Feb-11-06   Cogano: <patzer2> Thank you kindly for your gracious words. They are most sincerely appreciated. & I'm glad you take my politeness for what it's supposed to be, rather than (as <hayton3> suggested,) banality & insencerity! & thank you for the article. I quite enjoyed it.

<hayton3> I would love to post my losses here. But, of the 3 games I've played thus far (2 of which were many years ago), I only have a record of the most recent one, from a couple of months back, which wasn't a loss for me. & even if that were not the case, I don't how to post any of my games here, regardless what the result was. I for one think there's more to learn from failure than from success. If I were conducting an experiment & it succeeded, that would only confirm my hypothesis, but that would not necessarily mean that my hypothesis was right in the first place! Why? Because my hypothesis is based on certain elements I picked from the available batch & which I decided must fit together, regardless whether or not all the elements in the batch might actually already form some kind of pattern together or have some kind of relationship together that I failed to detect. Whereas failure would show me what I was NOT trying to find, something about the method that I did NOT want to use (& thus show me that it does indeed have other merits & uses after all!), etc. So for me failure is under-rated & under-appreciated. Furthermore, when kids in school learn to value only success, they get crushed when they fail. They never get to learn the value & uses of failure, so as to benefit & make the most of BOTH success AND failure! Humanity AND society have much further to go just yet. But, hope springs eternal! Thank you kindly for your words of support AND for sharing your different perspective & opinion on the issues we've discussed. If nothing more, they serve to prevent me from stagnating & remind me of what I belive in & why. Thank you for that.

Take very good care both & all, & have yourselves a very good day. Cheers mates!

Feb-11-06   hayton3: zzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZ
Feb-11-06   Cogano: <hayton3> My most abject & humblest apologies for disturbing your slumber. Sweet dreams mate! Cheers! ;)
Feb-12-06   Cogano: Hello <Stonewaller2> & I sincerely hope this finds you well. I've meaning to look up "Caissa" in my Latin-English dictionary & today I finally did. Alas, nothing. Not even a word close to or related to it. Same with my Greek-English dictionary (just on the off-chance I may find something). So thank you for taking the time to add further insight on this word. Take very good care & have a great day. Cheers mate!
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