|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Apr-26-06
 | | OBIT: Mate the queen, cool... |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | KeRvY: harder to spot then average wednesday puzzle, but still got it |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | chessmoron: what! Rd2, wth is Larsen thinking 32... Nxe3 (hello!!) |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | Confuse: chessmoron you are hilarious.
=) |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | blingice: Well, the queen sacrifice was a given, considering it was a puzzle. I didn't get the rook move though. |
|
Apr-26-06
| | OBIT: Chessmoron: Good-bye. Come back when you have worked out the win after 32...Nxe3 33. Qb2 (then if 33...Rxd1 34. Kf2). |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | sewun77: i think white is lose step in this game
|
|
| Apr-26-06 | | Trouble: OBIT he's actually correct. Nxe3, Qb2 Rxd1, Kf2 Rf1+ leaving white two moves(Kg3 and Ke2) on Kg3 then Nc4 so Ke2. Then Bc4+ and if Kd2 then Rd1# so Nd3 then Rxd3!. I calculated this far and couldn't find a way for white to attack the bishop on c4 but I missed Rxf1...even so after Rxf1 black wins by Rb3+. It's good to check stuff out thoroughly, it's a mistake I sometimes make. |
|
Apr-26-06
| | OBIT: <Trouble> In that line, I got as far as 32...Nxe3 33. Qb2 Rxd1 34. Kf2 Rf1+ 35. Kg3/Ke2 and decided, "Why do this? It's a thousand times more complicated than the clearly winning 32...Rd2". |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | statisticsman: WOW!!! Geometrically beautiful...goodbye queen and rook for a queen. |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | chessmoron: what if i move Nc4 on move 34, obit, then what are you going to do? |
|
Apr-26-06
| | OBIT: Chessmoron: I am a feeble old man. Given a choice between a one-move win and a win that involves some tricky calculating, I'm going with the one-mover. |
|
Apr-26-06
| | ajk68: It seems that in the 32...Nxe3 line that after 37. Nd3 Bxd3 38. Kxe3 Bxb2+ 39. Ke2 Ra2 40. Qxa2 Bxa2 41. Kxf1 Bc4+ black is completely winning. I did this in my head, so maybe I'm missing something? |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | pawntificator: After 33. Qxd2 Nxd2 white can end up only a pawn or 3 down and put up a struggle at least. I think the other lines given show a stronger advantage for black. But black wins either way. |
|
Apr-26-06
| | OBIT: <ajk6> If you meant 38...Bxb1+, then 39. Qxa3. However, <Trouble> pointed out that 37...Rxd3! is better. My point is, if you can calculate all this out, fine, but if you are NOT calculating it out, you are committing a mental error. Why roll the dice, when, after 32...Rd2 33. Qxd2 Nxd2, you will be up two pawns (after Nxe4), with an easy position to play? It's the KISS rule: "Keep It Simple, Stupid". |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | TrueBlue: I also got Ne3, seems much better to me than Rd2 ... so i am 2/3 or 3/3 depending on whether Ne3 solution is acceptable ... btw Qe2 after that seems also like a possiblity, so I tried few lines with Qe2, all good for black as far as I can tell |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | SJP: The Nxe3 line seems better to me.
1) 33. Qb2 Rxd1+ 34. Kf2 Rf1+ 35. Kg3 Nc4+  2) 33. Qe2 Rxd1+ 34. Kf2 Bc4 35. Qf3 Rf1+ 36. Kg3 Rxf3+ 37. gxf3 Nf1+
3)33. Nd3 Nxc2 34. Bxc2 Rdxd3 35. Bxd3 Rxd3
|
|
| Apr-26-06 | | Petrocephalon: I chose 31..Qd2, which appears to tranpose. |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | DP12: 31... Qd2 is clever but not looks like it gives more options.like Qd2 and then Re1 or something. I only saw Ne3 move but I like Rd2. Those colinear moves are very difficult. |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | itz2000: I saw the queen was locked but I thought of an answer via Nxe3 didn't take the time though :( |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | krippp: I saw and preferred <Nxe3>. Fritz 9 also thinks <Nxe3> is a _lot_ better. After <Rd2>, it has basically only been a Rook+Queen for Rook+Queen (with black clearly having the upper hand, but only thanks to a passed pawn(s)... After <Nxe3>, the threat is to make it a Rook + Queen for Rook + Queen + Bishop. Even if the Queen tries to run, it can be seen without any real calculation that the trade will be _at least_ a Queen for Rook + Bishop. But now the difference is that White's position is a wreck thanks to the King's awkward position. This alone should already be enough to prove that <Nxe3> is preferable. ... And with specific calculation, it's apparent that the Queen will have to be given up anyway within just a couple obvious mating moves later if it tries to run to any of the three available squares... |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | ice lemon tea: i was thinking also 33..Nxe3 and i was sooo sure that i got the right answer. well, looks like i'm still a patzer :( |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | VOK: I couldn't find a winning combo for black. Which is not that surprising because the solution I see in the game leaves white a whole pawn down. He's probably lost but that's not an 'immediate kill' thing, is it? |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | jmelton: Wow, are we good, or what? :) Several of us found a faster way to win this position than Bent Larsen! (Then again, maybe he was in time trouble.) I saw enough of the Nxe3 lines to convince me that it won convincingly, then ran it through Fritz just to be sure. Sure enough, Fritz evaluates the position after Nxe3 (at 11 ply) as a 5 1/2 point advantage for Black. Rd2 only rates a 2 1/2 point advantage for Black, although obviously Black would still have won the game easily had Saren continued. Another interesting thing: in the 32...Nxe3 line, White actually loses faster by trying to hold on to the Queen than by giving it back with 33.Nd3! Trying to hold onto the queen doesn't work because Black either mates or wins it and a lot of other stuff anyway (see the lines posted by SJP, among others). This appears to be queen sac week. Stay tuned for another one tomorrow! |
|
| Apr-26-06 | | jmelton: <ice lemon tea: i was thinking also 33..Nxe3 and i was sooo sure that i got the right answer. well, looks like i'm still a patzer :(> You found a way to win that works even better than what Larsen found; I'd say that makes you a bit stronger than a patzer (though whether you are as good as Bent Larsen remains to be seen! :) ). |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 31...Qxd1+