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| Mar-01-06 | | thathwamasi: The ever classic double bishop sac is the answer |
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| Mar-01-06 | | yataturk: I think I'd've given up 6-7 moves earlier.. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | homersheineken: Yeah pretty much after move 26 it was over. Does any one know a program where you can load saved games from yahoo to analyze later? |
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Mar-01-06
 | | WannaBe: <homersheineken> I know that after you e-mail the game to yourself, copy the moves (no header, none of the ;blah blah blah crap) just the 1 e2-e4 etc... then you can open fritz/shredder and edit->paste->paste game data. You then can save it as pgn. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | Infohunter: Just from the looks of the position I knew at once that this had to be a double Bishop sacrifice. I didn't work it out all the way to the end, but White clearly has a winning attack in the key position. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | ganstaman: Someone had posted to another game with a double bishop sacrifice that they just look for several key positional features in order to know that the sacrifice is probably good (ie you may be able to get away without actually analyzing all the tactics). Sorry if I really mess this up. First, the double bishop sacrifice has to be possible (the bishop setup and the enemy king must be in place. Secondly, your queen must be able to get in to deliver those checks. Also, you need a rook capable of the rook lift that provides support. Finally, your opponent must not be able to quickly get another piece (like the queen) over to defend the king. I saw these features and knew the right moves without analyzing. I started playing the Bird's opening, which can easily get the bishops in place for this sacrifice (something like f4, e3, Bd3, b3, Bb2). So far, no one has given me the opportunity to try it out. I wonder if I'll have the guts to follow through, anyway. My one complaint about the game is that I would have liked to seen black give white a discovered check by moving his king in the final position. I don't think I've ever seen a check given by a king move before. Oh well. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | homersheineken: <wannabe>Forgive my ignorance, but where can i get fritz/shredder?? Grazie! |
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Mar-01-06
 | | al wazir: Does anyone see a reason why white has to play Bxh7 before Bxg7 ? |
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| Mar-01-06 | | yataturk: <Infohunter: ... but White clearly has a winning attack in the key position.>
Let's play a new game.. Modify the board given in the puzzle such that white's double bishop sacrifice doesn't work... What is the minimal change one would need? Of course by <minimal change> I mean the most subtle change that spoils the attack, but isn't something like "black has an extra queen on h8".... |
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| Mar-01-06 | | doglikegroove: <al wazir: Does anyone see a reason why white has to play Bxh7 before Bxg7 > I sure don't. I ran through it with Bxg7 followed by Bxh7, and it ends up looking exactly the same. Queen starts checking, king starts dancing, rook lifts, and king starts running for his life. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | doglikegroove: <gangstaman: My one complaint about the game is that I would have liked to seen black give white a discovered check by moving his king in the final position.> That irked me too. If you're going to pretend the game isn't over, why not at least try that? Then you can bring your queen out and at least make it interesting. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | patzer2: For today's tough Wednesday puzzle solution, White pulls off a winning demolition of pawn structure combination with 21. Bxh7+!! The solution gets tougher after 24. Qg5+ when White has to decide whether to take the draw by perpetual or proceed with the pursuit of the King. Of course at this level of play, White has already calculated the winning pursuit combination as leading to the win of decisive material via a followup skewer and double attack via 25. Rf3!. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | doglikegroove: <yataturk> How about putting the g-pawn on g6? |
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| Mar-01-06 | | who: <I started playing the Bird's opening, which can easily get the bishops in place for this sacrifice (something like f4, e3, Bd3, b3, Bb2). So far, no one has given me the opportunity to try it out. I wonder if I'll have the guts to follow through, anyway.> I have as well and I've reached a position where the sac is possible against a computer. But almost every time there is some annoying way the computer prevents the mate and is left with a huge advantage. The best I've ever gotten is a perpetual. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | patzer2: <al wazir: Does anyone see a reason why white has to play Bxh7 before Bxg7> Fritz 8 indicates it turns the tables and allows Black to win after 21. Bxg7? Kxg7 22. Bxh7 Be7! 23. Qg4+ Kh6! 24. Bd3 e5 25. Bf5 Bxf5 26. Qxf5 exf4 27. e4 Qd6 28. e5 Qd4+ 29. Kh1 Bg5 30. h4 Bxh4 31. Rxf4 Qd1+ 32. Kh2 Qh5  (-2.66 @ 16 depth).As a general rule, it's best to avoid unnecessary waiting moves in combinations. Or to put it another way, given a choice between a waiting move and a forcing move, go for the forcing move. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | lentil: <dog...> W has to play Bxh7+ first because it's a check... try these other ideas: 21 Bxg7 Kxg7 22 Bxh7 Rh8 and the K escapes via f8. Or 22 Qg4+ Kh8 23 Bxh7 f5 opens up an escape hatch... and a line of communication for the BQ. W may still have a win (I doubt it!) but it's not so clear |
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| Mar-01-06 | | yataturk: <doglikegroove: <yataturk> How about putting the g-pawn on g6?> I don't think that is as subtle as what I'm trying to get... How about having the light colored black bishop on a4 for example.. It isn't immediately obvious if this does changes the outcome... |
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| Mar-01-06 | | durnstein: Bxg7 is just a forcing as Bxh7+.
21. Bxg7 Kxg7
22. Qg4+ (NOT Bxh7 yet) Kh8
23. Bxh7 Kxh7
24. Qh5+ Kg8 (or g7, no better)
25. Qg5+ Kh7
and now we are right back at the game line, just a move later with
26. Rf3 etc. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | dzechiel: Saw the twin bishop sacrifice, as well as the check on g5 and the rook lift (25 ♖f3), but after that point it became too tough for me to predict black's moves. I felt certain that this was the correct line, as anything else gave black time to consolidate his position. |
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| Mar-01-06 | | RandomVisitor: Black can try harder...
29...Ke7
30.Qh8 b5
31.Rxc8 Qb6
32.Qe8
but it only prolongs things |
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| Mar-01-06 | | durnstein: Random Visitor:
29...Ke7
30. Qh4+!
if ... Kd7, 31. Qd8++
if ... f6, 31. Qh7++ |
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| Mar-01-06 | | RandomVisitor: <durnstein>on 29...Ke7 30.Qh4+ Kd7 31.Qd8+ Black has Kc6, but after 32.Qxc8+ Qxc8 33.Rxc8+ it is over as well |
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| Mar-01-06 | | lentil: <durnstein>: in your line, 23...Kxh7 is not forced. it also transposes into what is demonstrably a winning line for W, hence my earlier recommendation of 23...f5, opening an escape hatch for the BK and an entryway for the BQ via c7. e.g. 24 Qh4 (or h5) Qc7 25 Bxf5+ Kg8 and now what does W have? |
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| Mar-01-06 | | Valen: 21Bxg7 Kxg7
22Qg4+ Kh8
23Bxh7 Qc7(Fritz 9 ..=)
24Qh5 Kg7
25Qg5+ Kh8
26Bf5 f6 etc, etc |
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| Mar-01-06 | | Twocolors: I don't like 11.h3, voluntarily weakening white's K-side. GM Koneru could (and should) have played 11.dxc5 that leads to the game (one move less though) 11..Bxc5 12.b4 Bd6 13.Bb2 Ne5 14.f4! Bd6 (Bxc3 15.Rac1) 15.Rac1 etc.
It would have made a much easier mate after 24.Rf3
I always condemn players in my club who play unforced h3 (or ..h6) and named this the "Emmenthaler defence" after the cheese with all those holes in it. |
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