< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 6 ·
|Jul-05-11|| ||HeMateMe: Usually Kramnik is terrific at beating TNs across the board; I'm always amazed at how often he defeats another GMs home prep, over the board.|
Not this time, though.
|Jul-05-11|| ||kevin86: The coming rook move is very lethal.|
|Jul-05-11|| ||DrMAL: <LIFE Master AJ: According to everything I know about theory, the whole line of 7...NxP/g4 is supposed to be bad.> My only suggestion is to learn more theory.|
Interesting double edged game. The line following 8...Nxh2 is known and perfectly fine (8...Qf6 may be better).
17...c5 was not quite WC stuff (planning long castle) since it gives white a nicely placed group of queenside pawns. In light of this, 21...Be6 22.Ra3 a6 was a bad plan, after 24.c5 white has a winning attack.
<WhiteRook48: I wonder what Kramnik was thinking after this game...> Probably that he should have gone to the restroom more often LOL.
|Jul-05-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <DrMal> I have probably forotten more about theory than you will ever know ... |
but, see MCO-15 for the main line.
|Jul-05-11|| ||Once: keep it pleasant, folks, eh?|
|Jul-05-11|| ||DrMAL: <Once: keep it pleasant, folks, eh?> LOL. |
Errm, thanx for the reference <AJ> that book is somewhere gathering dust in my garage...never liked it, too incomplete. However, that does explain where you are coming from.
|Jul-05-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <DrMal> I have MANY books on the Slav. |
One (book) clearly said that the ...NxP/g4; "was patently inferior" but now GM's are seeming to get bored with the non-descript (and sometimes boring) stuff that comes from the main lines and looking for <fun> (decent / playable lines) elsewhere.
|Jul-05-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: The main line of MCO-15. (For 7.g4.)
1.d4 d5; 2.c4 c6; 3.Nf3 Nf6; 4.Nc3 e6; 5.e3 Nbd7; 6.Qc2,
According to my default database,
(based on "Big '08 - but I have
made many additions, it's now at
almost eight million games);
Chajes played this against Kashdan
in 1924, the Soviets were already
experiementing with this line in the
[For the lines of:
6.Bd3 dxc4; 7.Bxc4 b5;
8.Bd3 a6; 9.e4 c5;
see column 01, beginning on
page # 463.]
This is standard, although many players also will try 6...Be7; as well.
The Shabalov-Shirov System.
[ Or White could try: 7.Be2 0-0; 8.0-0 dxc4;
9.Bxc4 b5; 10.Be2, 10...Bb7; PB]
7...Bb4; 8.Bd2 Qe7; 9.g5 Bxc3; 10.Bxc3,
This was forced.
[ </= 10.gxf6? Bxd2+ ]
10...Ne4; 11.Bd3 Nxc3; 12.Qxc3 dxc4;
The end of column # 33, page # 474.
13.Bxc4 b6!?; 14.0-0-0 Bb7; 15.e4 0-0; 16.Rhe1 Rfd8; 17.Qe3 Rac8; (Good now - 18.Kb1.)
De Firmian is calling this equal ... Black has no major problems.
This is the game:
GM Michal Krasenkow (2635) -
IM Thomas Henrichs (2491); [D45]
10th HZ Open
Vlissingen, NED; (R# 4), 07,08,2006.
(This game was a long draw.)
[ See MCO-15, page # 474;
column # 33, and all applicable notes.
See especially note (l.) for this line. ]
1/2 - 1/2
|Jul-05-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: 7...Bb4 has been (was) the main line for many years ... although I would be the first to admit that Black's results with this line have not been impressive.|
|Jul-05-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: [Event "Vlissingen HZ op 10th"]
[White "Krasenkow, Michal"]
[Black "Henrichs, Thomas"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 Nbd7 6. Qc2 Bd6 7. g4 Bb4 8. Bd2 Qe7 9. g5 Bxc3 10. Bxc3 Ne4 11. Bd3 Nxc3 12. Qxc3 dxc4 13. Bxc4 b6 14. O-O-O Bb7 15. e4 O-O 16. Rhe1 Rfd8 17. Qe3 Rac8 18. Kb1 b5 19. Bf1 a6 20. h4 c5 21. h5 cxd4 22. Nxd4 Nc5 23. f3 g6 24. h6 e5 25. Nb3 Na4 26. Bh3 Rc4 27. Rxd8+ Qxd8 28. Qd2 Qxd2 29. Nxd2 Rc7 30. Nf1 Kf8 31. Ne3 Nb6 32. Rd1 Ke7 33. Rd3 Rc5 34. b3 a5 35. Kb2 b4 36. Ng4 Bc8 37. a3 bxa3+ 38. Kxa3 Be6 39. Nf2 Bxh3 40. Nxh3 Nd7 41. Nf2 Nf8 42. Rd5 Rxd5 43. exd5 Kd6 44. Ka4 Kxd5 45. Kxa5 Ne6 46. Ne4 Kd4 47. b4 Ke3 48. Nf6 Kxf3 49. Nxh7 e4 50. Nf6 e3 51. h7 e2 1/2-1/2
|Jul-05-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: I submitted the above game to CG via the PGN submission feature.|
|Jul-05-11|| ||DieHard: Unless I've missed it, I haven't seen anyone criticize Moro's immediate reaction to the TN on move 12. I don't like 13. Bg5. I think the trade of dark squared bishops is more in Black's favor than White's. I'd be tempted by 13. cd and 14.e5 instead.|
|Jul-05-11|| ||avidfan: This game shows the potential of the double c4,c5 pawns in controlling squares d5,d6 supported by pawn b4 in a mating attack.|
click for larger view
21...Bd7-e6 simply gave up control of the white diagonal d7-a4 especially squares c6,b5. Black hopes to exchange rooks on the d-file but White does not oblige and instead 22.Rd3-a3 puts pressure on the a-file by attacking the a7-pawn.
22...a6 just allows 23.c6 breaking up the Black king's pawn cover.
It is funny how the Black king runs to the queen side for safety on move 19...O-O-O only to return to the king side on move 25...Kd7 and 28...Ke8.
Thanks to <chancho> who cites Deen Hergott's excellent analysis for Black's resignation after 30.Rd6 Rxd6 31.cxd6.
|Jul-06-11|| ||DrMAL: <avidfan> Yes, this is why I pointed out above 17...c5 was bad (game losing after the plan starting with 21...Be6). The opening had nothing to do with this, it gave equal chances.
Thanx for <chancho> I missed the earlier page analysis, cheers.|
<LIFE Master AJ: <DrMal> I have MANY books on the Slav.> Whatever, you're a legend LOL. For me, I am not real bookish or some historian anyway, I play and enjoy creative chess.
|Jul-06-11|| ||parmetd: 7... Nxg4 has been though as = for a very long time. Even the creators Shirov/Shabalov said they stopped because of the "easy equality after Nxg4" (Shirov's words not mine).|
The point is this... theory and evaluations change as more games are played by strong players (GMs IMs corr players etc).
|Jul-06-11|| ||DrMAL: <parmetd> Excellent point, especially since books like MCO in its latest revision is usually considered outdated. While chess books are great for mastery, once that is achieved they become less relevant and IMO can even be a hindrance, cheers.|
|Jul-06-11|| ||JustAnotherPatzer: He was rated No. 2 in the world at around this time (July 2008) and when i first started playing online in late 2007 he'd yet to peak tho was still comfortably in the top 10 and being touted for great things but then his ranking plummeted (as of now, three years on from this 2788 peak rating and No.2 spot, he's rated 'only' 2694 and ranked 'just' 48th - what a patzer =) ...seriously tho, such an exciting player - no one deserves more than 'Mozza' to win the Tal memorial (as featured above) for as his opponent in this game said of him "this is attacking chess, always forward, never retreating" (i paraphrase). |
He looks like an international playboy, got that sleek look of the super-wealthy, film star looks so - who knows? - maybe like Capablanca he's a bit of a ladies man and is unable to attend sufficiently to the mandatory chores of cutting edge theory (not requiring too much effort in Capa's day) preferring other, less cerebral, 'pursuits? ('s ok i'm very legalistic folks - that's not sue-able). Great player - i wish him well and hope he finds time to storm the top 10 once more while still in his prime.
Thx for the extraordinary dedication you make to this site Life Master AJ and (with a nod to the kibitzing rules) that goes very specifically for this page - i thoroughly enjoy these detailed annotations /analyses which i've gotten a lot out of it since i began a year or so ago properly delving here
|Jul-06-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Qc2 Bd6 7.g4, |
According to the new "Power-Book" there are now like eight moves BEFORE 7...NxP/g4. [Some of the better alternatives are A.) 7...Bb4; the main line. B.) 7...a6 C.) 7...dxc4; and D.) 7...h6.]
So - according to PB - all of these moves are better than taking on g4, which almost anyone familiar with theory knows to be bad. (Inferior ... to say the least!)
|Jul-06-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: By the way - although Morozevich's rating has gone way down, his play lately is very good ... he recently won the qualifier to the Russian Super Finals - clear first.|
|Jul-06-11|| ||parmetd: @LMAJ bad according to who? you? If GM Alexei Shirov creator of the very move 7. g4 says he quit playing it because of the "easy equality afforded by 7... Nxg4" ... I think i'm gonna take his word over yours.|
Granted, other moves are totally playable but Nxg4 is no in way inferior theoretically and objectively it could be the strongest (if all black wants to achieve is a draw).
@DrMAL I don't consider books bad or hindrance but its all in how you use them. Would you hold up a copy of MCO 1 and tell the guy with MCO 15 he's wrong? No one would. But that doesn't mean you couldn't learn ideas and concepts out of MCO1. I would never use such books for minutiae and ever changing details. However to learn ideas, concepts and inspiration... (or just fun) then books are a treasure trove.
|Jul-06-11|| ||perfidious: <parmetd: @DrMAL I don't consider books bad or hindrance but its all in how you use them...>|
As with any tool, but good luck in trying to persuade <DrNICHEVO> to anything which doesn't agree with his point of view.
<Would you hold up a copy of MCO 1 and tell the guy with MCO 15 he's wrong? No one would.>
The above-named poster certainly would, so great are his certitude and determination to force-feed his thoughts down the throats of others.
<However to learn ideas, concepts and inspiration... (or just fun) then books are a treasure trove.>
Yes, in chess as in many other things.
|Jul-07-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: IF you don't like theory - just say so. (I really don't care, makes no difference to me at all.)
Doesn't change the facts, though - according to theory, the capture on g4 IS (grossly) inferior to the alternatives. (Period / QED.) |
I am thinking I could quote 10 books - and you would just wave your hand. (I have already quoted MCO-15 and "Power-Book" and you blew off both of those. Just one problem, they were assembled by ALL masters ... most are GM's and a few are recognized as being top experts in the lines that they were chosen to analyze.)
You SAY "Shirov said" (blah-blah-blah) but I don't see you bothering to quote any links or any books.
The internet is full of absolute falsehooods. Every day in my SPAM folder, (which I check daily to make sure that no real chess e-mails get lost in the shuffle, this has happened on occasion); I won the lottery, some guy is going to give me a gazillion dollars for letting him use my bank account for a few days, (illegal AND stupid!); someone wants to sell me VIAGRA, dirt-cheap; someone else is claiming to be a master when its blatantly obvious that he is not ... the list goes on and on and on.
In the end, I guess you become a cynic - and conclude that ALL internet claims are false ...
|Jul-07-11|| ||parmetd: Try buying Shirov's books or DVDS you nitwit. I heard on it on his Semi Slav Volume1 1st Edition (though he makes the claim even stronger and expanded in his 2nd edition) And he mentions it in his Fire on Board books (I believe its volume 2). He also makes the games in Best games as White DvD. Nxg4 is not only NOT inferior is probably in fact the *best* move in the position. End of story. QED. Period. Space. Period. Space. Period. Hey should I say QED one more time too?|
|Jul-07-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Only one thing (for me) to do ...|
|Jul-07-11|| ||parmetd: I suppose you were just trying to show off how much more theory you knew than Kramnik, Shirov and Shabalov? Too bad you actually knew less than a simple class player. I guess I will get ignored for proving you wrong.|
Your loss. My gain.
The truth is if you are playing for *winning* chances as black then sure Nxg4 is inferior as it only offers a draw at the highest level. But you said inferior on the whole and this is simply not a correct or factual statement in any way shape or form.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 6 ·