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Tabanus
Member since Feb-22-04
Biologist from Norway!

Game Collection Voting

Ancestry records: http://search.ancestry.com/

ABC Sevilla/Cordoba (Spain): http://hemeroteca.abc.es/avanzada.stm

American newspapers: http://www.genealogybank.com/gbnk/

Associated Press: http://www.aparchive.com/

BrasilBase: http://www.brasilbase.pro.br/index....

Brasilian newspapers: http://memoria.bn.br/hdb/periodo.aspx

British newspapers: http://www.britishnewspaperarchive....

Brooklyn Daily Eagle: http://newsstand.bklynpubliclibrary...

Budapest (Hungary) 1889-1893: http://epa.oszk.hu/html/vgi/kardexl...

California 1846-1922: http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc

Chess Archaeology: http://www.chessarch.com/

Clarin (Argentina): http://najdorf-miguel.blogspot.no/

Dutch newspapers: http://kranten.delpher.nl/

El Informador (Mexico): http://hemeroteca.informador.com.mx/

El Siglo de Torreón (Mexico): http://h.elsiglodetorreon.com.mx/De...

El Mundo Deportivo (Spain): http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.co...

Fulton NY newspapers: http://www.fultonhistory.com/fulton...

Jaque 1971-2002: http://www.bartelski.pl/olimpbase/l...

La Stampa (Italy): http://www.archiviolastampa.it/

La Vanguardia (Spain): http://www.lavanguardia.com/hemerot...

L'Express/Impartial: http://www.lexpressarchives.ch/Defa...

Le Temps (Switzerland): http://www.letempsarchives.ch/Defau...

Skakbladet (Denmark): http://www.skak.dk/index.php?option...

The Times (UK): http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/archi...

Tidskrift för Schack (Sweden): http://www.schack.se/tfsarkiv/histo...

Tímarit (Iceland): http://timarit.is/search_init.jsp?l...

Utrechts Nieuwsblad (Holland): http://www.hetutrechtsarchief.nl/co...

Wiener Schachzeitung (Austria): http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/a...

>> Click here to see Tabanus's game collections.

Chessgames.com Full Member
   Current net-worth: 800 chessbucks
[what is this?]

   Tabanus has kibitzed 15493 times to chessgames   [more...]
   Oct-21-14 Biographer Bistro
 
Tabanus: <too much like talking about an instrument or tool> Well, isn't that exactly what they did: saw other people as instruments or tools.
 
   Oct-20-14 Tabanus chessforum (replies)
 
Tabanus: <PMD> That's how I understood it at first glance, with "According to" reading as "As in": <As in our recommendations, the stake is ...> But there is room for misinterpretations. What a "Jess mess" this is hehe.
 
   Oct-19-14 Spassky vs Keene, 1973
 
Tabanus: Picture from this game: http://binaryapi.ap.org/bfd0ab9d49f...
 
   Oct-18-14 J H Smythe Jr (replies)
 
Tabanus: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstra... If this is him, which I suspect (age and activity fit), he died Tuesday 14 Aug 1956.
 
   Oct-18-14 The World vs Naiditsch, 2014 (replies)
 
...
 
   Oct-18-14 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
Tabanus: <CG> I think it's a great picture. Btw, the games from Mexico 1932 are not by him but by <Joaquin Medina Zavalía>, who is not in the database yet.
 
   Oct-17-14 Juan Brunner
 
Tabanus: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-272shJCnp... The picture text says Juan Brunner.
 
   Oct-15-14 Browne vs Polugaevsky, 1976 (replies)
 
Tabanus: Het Vrije Volk 24 June p. 9 also has this story (freely translated): Browne had 3 minutes left for 13 moves when the lights went off. After an emergency light was on, he refused to play. Camponanes urged him to continue but the American blamed the referee that he only made ...
 
   Oct-15-14 Uhlmann vs Hort, 1976
 
Tabanus: Pacific Stars and Stripes 4 July 1976 p. 7: <Both Hort and Uhlmann were suffering from bad stomach and played to a grandmasters' draw>
 
   Oct-14-14 Gheorghiu vs Mecking, 1976
 
Tabanus: This rd. 9 game, scheduled June 24, was postponed till June 29 because Mecking was sick. AP report in several newspapers incl. State Times Advocate 24 June p. 15: "A bad case of gastro enteritis suffered by Mecking".
 
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 60 OF 60 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-19-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: 'financial loss of 20,000 guilders' and 'they spend 20 grand, namely the government and the Grossdeutscher Schachbund'.
Oct-19-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: Die Kosten für die Organisation des Wettkampfes beliefen sich auf 40.000 Reichsmark (nach heutiger Kaufkraft ca. 170.000 Euro), eine für damalige Schachveranstaltungen beachtliche Summe.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schach...

But you were looking for the prize money? I don't know that.

Oct-19-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: Ah, from the same link: Als Preisfonds wurden umgerechnet etwa 10.000 US-Dollar bereitgestellt.
Oct-19-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Batman>

Brilliant- that appears to be confirmation that the London Rules "full purse" of $10,000 was indeed provided.

That is sourced on the page to

-The Chess Review , April 1934, p.50

Oct-19-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Stony, Tab>

I can't thank you guys enough for helping us on this.

I'm going to be able to build up the "funding section" section of our draft further when I take a closer look at all the material you have provided us, but for now we can say "success" on finding out the purse amount.

So for right now, pending the further entries I put in from all the material <Tab> found, here is the draft section now on funding for Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE:

################

October 1933

p. 299 of the October 1933 'Wiener Schachzeitung', it is reported that Bogoljubov challenged Alekhine for the world championship and the latter accepted. Still, he would have to raise $10,000 which will be a hard task, despite of the dollar devaluation.

---

19 Feb 1934

"With regard to his match with Bogoljuboff which is commencing early in April and which is guaranteed by the State of Baden, the game will be played mostly in Baden Baden, Munich and Nuremberg. He was hoping to win this match, and if so it is quite likely that Bogoljuboff will not be able to find a backing for a return match. After him the following would come into consideration for further matches-- Dr. Euwe, (page break) Flohr, and Kashdan, since these three are the great masters of the future."

-<"British Chess Magazine" (March 1934), pp.97-98> In Edward Winter Chess Note 8868 http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...

---

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schach...

"The prize fund approximately $10,000 were provided converted." Original- "Als Preisfonds wurden umgerechnet etwa 10.000 US-Dollar bereitgestellt."

Sourced from the article to

-<"The Chess Review" (April 1934), p.50>

Oct-19-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: <WCC> The Chess Review article actually states: "According to our advices the stake is one of $10,000 in American money."

Perhaps not entirely convincing, depending on how reliable their advices were. But Alekhine had a reputation for 'counting the lucre' before he went anywhere near a chessboard, so it's hard to imagine he would have settled for a lesser stake than was previously envisaged.

Oct-19-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Weapons of PMD>

Outstanding sir, thank you.

Your confirmation is just what we needed. It seems that German Wikipedia page on <Johnny Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934> was indeed well-researched.

Now, at the least, we can write in our draft that...

"The Chess Review" reported that..."

=============

The source actually says "advices" right?

In American English "advice" is a non-count noun.

Not so in England, it seems?

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Tab> brilliant exposition of the "Tabanus Plan" in the Bistro.

On other news, I think this bio stub- Otto Zander should be changed, but I need more time with the GARBLED translator before I do it.

At issue is the phrase "He kicked out all Jews in the German Chess Union in July 1933, when he became president of the DSB."

"Kicked out" has to go, for starters, because it's far too colloquial.

Also, I seem to recall from one of your many golden links that the first thing done was to bar chess players who had a Jewish grandparent?

I will be investigating this further.

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Tab> well this, for now: Otto Zander.

I won't really have time to dig deeply into the rich material you supplied until the weekend.

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: "Jews we can to our work do not need"

That sounds like written by me before OhioChessFan correction :) Not that I agree with the contents!

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Tab> Hmmm that wasn't me.

Somebody went in after me and rewrote it.

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <WCCEP> Please notify CG so that he/she can be fired as editor. There is no need for such things.
Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: <WCC> "Advices" sounds terrible to me - I was merely repeating what was written, but I admit my grasp on the correctness or otherwise of such archaic phraseology is flimsy. I will happily take advice(s) from the English teacher on these matters!

<All> Recalling <Tab>'s recent Manila Interzonal (1976) and the existence of Manila (1976), I wondered if the latter would benefit from a name change to Manila Quadrangular (1976), or similar. It struck me that a user could click on Manila (1976) and expect to get the Interzonal, whereas if all Quadrangulars were labelled so, there would be less ambiguity.

Of course in this specific instance, the 4-player tournament could also be renamed in other ways (e.g. it was actually held in Batangas and Manila). However, my wider point was that 'Quadrangular' might better suit a grand plan if it was rolled out consistently.

<Tabz> Still struggling to find time for Larsen-Uhlmann '71. Should happen quite soon though.

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Tab> Well I did just send an email, thanks for the advices.

heh

<Paint it good!> No worries man, it will be easy to paraphrase around the "advices" issue.

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Perhaps "our advices" refers to the Englishmen's advices from London (in 1922, when the rules were made)?

<Manila Quadrangular (1976)>, yes why not, for quadrangulars!

<PMD> Take your time, but I'm ready!

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Tab> do you know how to use the "wayback machine"?

I'm trying to recover the text I wrote this evening on the <Fort Zanderneuf> bio.

Stupidly, I didn't archive it, as I archive all of my work, because I figured "hey, I'm tired now, I'll do it tomorrow".

I didn't suspect someone would rape my research and work right after I did it.

I did it around 2-3 hours ago.

I guess that's too recent for a "wayback" page isn't it.

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Hmm do I don't know, except to click the Back arrow <-- sign in the browser, as long as it goes, and hope for the best. That should work if you did not close down the computer, the browser, or the tab you used.
Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: <Tabanus: Perhaps "our advices" refers to the Englishmen's advices from London (in 1922, when the rules were made)?>

Yes, that's why I didn't find it completely convincing - they may simply have been reminded of the London Rules and not of any actual transaction.

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <PMD> That's how I understood it at first glance, with "According to" reading as "As in": <As in our recommendations, the stake is ...> But there is room for misinterpretations. What a "Jess mess" this is hehe.
Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

Oh oh

<Painted Into a Corner>

If you have time, might you be willing to type out the full article text, so that we can all better judge the context and meaning of that curiously worded passage?

We need to evaluate the real possibility that the German Wiki writer misconstrued that pregnant passage.

I can't be writing fiction in this WCC draft, and you- England- may represent our last and best hope of avoiding this terrible fate.

Please help us get this straight?

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: <WCC> I would type it if it was helpful, but the sentence appears in isolation, preceded by a description of who was playing and followed by the other match conditions (number of games etc.) and the controversial events of game 1. The author then states that full details of the itinerary have not yet reached him.

I'll have a look through subsequent issues to see if more detail comes to light.

Ultimately, I wouldn't get too hung up on this. It's not a detail that the reader is going to regard as vital; particularly when the pre-match conditions already allude to a ball park figure that almost certainly Alekhine would have insisted on.

If you feel you must, you could safely use "sources indicate ...", which they do. I think Kasparov states 'same conditions as previous' in his Predecessors book if you want another corroborative, albeit not contemporary, citation.

Oct-20-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: Another contemporary one: "The conditions are the same as in the previous match five years ago"

-The Times, April 2, 1934, p.8

Oct-21-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Paint My Dragon>

Thanks for further information on that passage, and for all your previous help. I appreciate it, believe me.

But you see, the "previous conditions" of the 1929 match were that <Alekhine> received $6,000 win or lose, with any surplus going to <Boglojubov>.

I already have a multitude of sources saying the "conditions were the same" for the 1929 and 1934 match, but as you can tell, I began to suspect that they were the same *except* for the size of the purse.

I suspect the financial conditions in the 1934 match may have been different from those in 1929, that the German organizers may have met the London Rules suggested "full purse" of $10,000 US plus travel and living expenses for the contestants.

There is at least one cohort of readers who want to know, or should want to know, these financial details: those folks with strong feelings about laying blame with either <Alekhine> or <Capablanca> for preventing a rematch.

There are dozens and dozens of pages of arguing over that at our website.

That's why it may be more important than one might otherwise suppose to know the actual financial conditions for all of the WCC matches <Alekhine> played after he won the title.

You wrote that <the pre-match conditions already allude to a ball park figure that almost certainly Alekhine would have insisted on.>

Can you please give me the text of that source? What is the figure given by the text? Is it from the same article as the "advices" quotation?

I really need to see any and all sources I can get access to about the financial conditions for this match. I cannot write anything about what <Alekhine> or anyone else "would have done." That is the kind of writing that peppers, and ruins, Munninghoff's biography of Euwe, and so many other chatty chess history biographies.

I would like to find the actual facts, and if I can't find them that's all I can report- "we can't find the facts at present."

This is the historiographical standard we seek for the WCC intros.

If you can help me further, I would appreciate it very much.

I would even consider mailing you non-perishable food items. Dried squid is popular here, and it "mails well" too.

I believe <Tab> might be able to kick in with some jarred pickled herring. He told me that actual Norwegian name for this delicacy, but I've forgotten it now.

I believe it might be "Oomlaut."

Oct-21-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Weapons of PMD>

Thank you kindly for this valuable additional contemporaneous documentation- I have just added it to the mirror draft- Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE:

"The conditions are the same as in the previous match five years ago" -The Times, April 2, 1934, p.8

-----------

Every scrap of information I can gather on this match is like a golden nugget to me.

Oct-21-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: <Whitebait and Clam Chowder>

I fear you have been living in a bribery regulated environment for too long. We Englishmen are beyond such superficial rewards! What happened to the fake Rolex watches once so plentiful in the Far East? I guess that's the global financial downturn for you ... something that Capablanca would have been only too aware of.

Sadly, there is no further context regarding finances in the Chess Review article. I simply meant that $10k would be mentioned in your article and therefore the reader would know the approximate, likely extent of the purse. To my mind, this lessened the burden to come up with precise details, compared to a situation where no details are known at all. However, I can see that you are hell-bent on satisfying the cohorts of blame-seekers, and fair play to you. There appears to be lots of material telling of obstacles, dirty tricks, self-interest, playing the rules, call it what you will, but I worry that space may be your enemy.

While checking the rest of the 1934 Chess Review (no further talk of WC conditions btw) I passed a tournament won by Lilienthal and the heading was "An Orchid For Lilienthal". Never heard that expression before, but it struck me as a delightful, delicate sentiment ... and altogether more seemly than 'Dried Squid and Pickled Herring For Lilienthal'! Ha,ha.

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