< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 76 OF 76 ·
|May-14-15|| ||Tabanus: <PMD> Yes, I think they were all just chess players. But that some in the political elite would use any of them for their "cold war" purposes. I'll try to avoid the whole issue in Niksic '83 and just report what actually happened. Wish me luck.|
|May-15-15|| ||Tabanus: <Print My Draft> First version is up, fresh from the keyboard. There must be a lot of things to comment on, not least the language.|
|May-15-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: <Tab> Some suggestions ... in two parts ... part 1:|
Five years after the tournament in Niksic (1978), the organizers in Yugoslavia found it was the time for another event.
<Five years after the tournament in Niksic (1978), chess organizers in Yugoslavia were ready to announce a new event.>
In addition, the ex-World Champions Spassky, Tal and Petrosian, the veteran Larsen, and the promising stars Miles, Seirawan, Nikolic and Sax would secure an exciting mix of players.
<The addition of ex-World Champions Spassky, Tal and Petrosian, the veteran Larsen, and promising stars Miles, Seirawan, Nikolic and Sax ensured an exciting mix of players.> I wondered about 'mix of youth and experience' here, but it would also be about the clash of styles and ambitions, so maybe 'mix of players' is easiest! Your choice!
In August, the organizers informed that the tournament was starting earlier than scheduled, in order to fit in Portisch and Kasparov, who would also play! (2, 3) On the other hand, Hort withdrew the day before start. (3) It ended with 15 players and one bye each round.
<In August, the organizers brought forward the scheduled start date in order to accommodate Portisch and Kasparov, who would also be able to play. (2, 3) Hort’s withdrawal the day before the start was a setback, but there remained a stellar group of players. (3) With 15 participants, one player received a bye in each round.>
First price was 4,000 dollars. <First prize was 4,000 dollars.> $?
The favorite sports were football and chess. Instead of buying 3-4 football players the rulers decided for a chess event, which also got support from about 70 sponsors.
<With the added support of 70 sponsors, the organizers were able to secure funding normally reserved for football, the town’s other passion.>
(4) And with the participation of Kasparov it was not a poor choice. There was a fuzz in the media.
<(4) The participation of Kasparov created a media buzz, but another matter involving the young, rising star also grabbed a share of the headlines.>
but he did play chess. And he took well care of Kasparov's interests.
<but he did play chess, and took good care of Kasparov's interests.>
he would end up as no. 5! But Larsen was truly impressed, (3) and joking as usual.
<he would finish fifth, but Larsen was truly impressed, (3) and joking as usual.>
Kasparov played 21.Bxg7! Kxg7 22.Ne5! Stockfish can not defend, and Portisch could not either.
<Kasparov played 21.Bxg7! Kxg7 22.Ne5! and Portisch could not adequately defend his exposed king.> Not sure if Stockfish is a good thing to mention? A few years from now it will be an ancient relic, the way these programs keep changing.
|May-15-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: Actually, reading that back - 'Five years after the tournament in Niksic (1978)' would be better as <Five years after the Niksic (1978) tournament,>|
|May-16-15|| ||Tabanus: <PMD> Thanks, and changes made - a bit to creatively perhaps. For example just "Niksic (1978)" but it will be a link there, as it's on my future list. It's definately better now, and I'm ready for more! Right now my eyes are fine and I should keep them fine, so perhaps tomorrow?|
|May-16-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: <T> Yes, coming soon! Got to take mother out today, but there will be a usable gap at some point. |
It's looking good. I especially like the quotes you included.
Oh, one I missed:
major players of the time. Except the World Champion himself, Anatoly Karpov. (5)
<major players of the time, except the World Champion himself, Anatoly Karpov. (5)>
|May-16-15|| ||diagonal: <this tournament, which would involve the major players of the time, except the World Champion himself, Anatoly Karpov> (quote from Game Collection: Niksic 1983)|
I suggest for this introduction text the following addition: <and Viktor Korchnoi>. VK was then Candiate's semi-finalist, and he won his first classical chess tournament after the end of the soviet boycott, Wijk aan Zee in January 1984 (unbeaten together with Alexander Beliavsky).
Korchnoi certainly was then considered as <a major player of the time>. After his emigration (the chess history knows many chess players who emigrated / changed federation), Viktor Korchnoi was sadly boycotted from 1976 to 1983, and during this period could not compete in invitation tournaments with soviet players, he was deliberately not invited although being the current Vice World Champion, twice / de-facto thrice Challenger.
No invitation for Korchnoi to estimated 40 possible international chess tournaments from 1976 up to 1983 because of boycott against him; eg. not a single invitation at Bugojno (because of boycott threatens), a super-strong five times biannual tournament, no invitation for Korchnoi at the annual Tilburg until the year 1985, cancelled invitation for Banja Luka in 1979 won by young Kasparov, no invitation at the one-off Montreal elite event, won by Karpov and Tal, half a year after the crown clash Karpov vs. Korchnoi at Baguio City, same story at Torino in 1982, etc., explicitly no invitation for VK who was barred from elite tournaments with soviet players apart from the FIDE WC cycle. During 1976 and 1983, there was subsequently not a single game between Karpov and Korchnoi outside the official World Championship matches!
Sorry to be so long with my excursus. In any case, thanks <Tabanus> for your great work on chessgames, steadily and sustainable on various topics, tournaments & players!
|May-16-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: <diagonal> Good point. And difficult to know where to stop, e.g. Vaganian 2630, Polugaevsky 2615, Smyslov, Nunn 2600 ...|
Might be worth amending to "many of the major players of the time", without naming any exceptions?
|May-16-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: <Tab> Looks hugely long, but really it's just a few scattered words here and there! Apologies if I've wrecked your citations at some point. It is possible I have, but hopefully you can rearrange them, or just use my suggestion as a basis for your own version - or even just leave alone!|
The next on the list were Ljubojevic, Ivanovic and Larsen: 6.5/7!
<His next victims were Ljubojevic, Ivanovic and Larsen: 6.5/7!>
Next game he won again, before rounding up with three draws and another win.
<He was back to winning ways the very next day, before rounding off with three draws and another two wins.>
He and Portisch fighted bravely, (3) and Larsen played with full force in every game. (3) This also gave him adjournments. Larsens 2nd place was a surprise to some but not to Larsen himself. (4) He had been sick in Linares (1983) where he ended last, (14) but he had moved from the Canary Islands not long ago, married a woman from Argentina and now lived there. (15) His health seemed improved. (14) He lost to Miles and Kasparov but won six games. Spassky took it easy for a good placement, and so did Andersson. (4) Larsen continues his summary by saying that Seirawan scored very well as White, and lost almost everything as Black. Tal did not seem inspired, and Petrosian even less. They appeared to suffer in the heat. Timman played as par, and Ljubojevic disappointed. He had not played much recently, and his rating and the expectation of the fans made him nervous. (3)
<He and Portisch fought bravely for a high placing. (3) Larsen was another who was dogged with adjournments, yet continued to play forcefully in every game. (3) The Dane’s second place was a surprise to some but not to Larsen himself. (4) He had been sick in Linares (1983) and finished last, (14) but had since moved from the Canary Islands, married a woman from Argentina and now lived there, (15) with his health having seemingly improved. (14) He lost to Miles and Kasparov but won six games. Spassky and Andersson played more solidly and quietly, to assure themselves of a good placement with little risk. (4) While Seirawan scored very well with the White pieces, he lost almost everything as Black. Tal did not seem inspired, and Petrosian even less so. It appeared that they both suffered in the heat. Timman played up to expectations but not beyond, whereas Ljubojevic (endowed with the second highest rating) disappointed. He had not played much recently, and his rating and the expectations of fans made him nervous. (3)>
The interest in whether the players would handshake him (as he had moved to the West in 1976) was almost higher than in the games. But everything went as normal, and when Kasparov and Korchnoi shook hands there was an applause.
<There was a keen interest in who would shake his hand, as his defection to the West in 1976 and subsequent boycott, had reduced his status to ‘persona non-grata’ in some Soviet chess circles. But everything went as normal, and his handshake with Kasparov even brought applause from the spectators.>
Regarding Kasparov's forfeit: <Regarding Kasparov’s forfeit of the Candidates Match>
|May-16-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: Continued:
and asked their support through the Grandmasters' Council. (16) Chess journalist Alexander Borisovich Roshal collected at the same time the signatures of the grandmasters, (17) who also wanted the semifinals to be played (Vasily Smyslov also had been held back from his semifinal in Abu Dhabi).
<and asked for their support through the Grandmasters' Council. (16) At the same time, chess journalist Alexander Borisovich Roshal collected the signatures of those grandmasters present, (17) who were agreed that both semifinals (including Vasily Smyslov versus Zoltan Ribli, originally scheduled for Abu Dhabi) should have the forfeits rescinded and be decided by normal means.>
Kasparov and Korchnoi met and discussed the problems of staging the match a few days later in Herceg Novi. (18) They made a joint declaration directed to FIDE stating that they wished to play it, asking that it should be rescheduled. (16) Korchnoi was willing to play (and the forfeiture would be cancelled), and in exchange, the Soviet Chess Federation should end the boycott against him. (18) Korchnoi remembers that four people met: Kasparov with Litvinov, and he along with his fan and 'guardian angel', the author Branislav (Brana) Crnèeviæ. (9)
<Kasparov and Korchnoi met and discussed the problems of staging the match a few days later in Herceg Novi. (18) Korchnoi recalls the meeting: Kasparov with Litvinov, and he along with his fan and 'guardian angel', the author Branislav (Brana) Crnèeviæ. (9) In conclusion, they made a joint declaration to FIDE stating that they wished to play the match, asking that it should be rescheduled. (16) Korchnoi was willing to play (and have the forfeit cancelled), and in exchange, the Soviet Chess Federation should end the boycott against him. (18)>
And chess history was set back onto its course
<Finally, chess history was set back on course>
payed a hefty fine <paid a hefty fine>
Vitaly Sebastianov <Vitaly Sevastianov>
cordial relationships <cordial relations>
the Kasparov - Korchnoi Candidates Semifinal (1983) took place in London.
<both Candidates Semifinal matches took place in London.>
24) Soviet Chess 1917-1991 by Andrew Soltis (McFarland, 1999. 478 pp.).
<24) Soviet Chess 1917-1991 by Andrew Soltis (McFarland, 1999. pp. 375-376).>
I would also recommend that you swap over the last two paras. The Kasparov Oscar para just disrupts the Candidates discussion and it can be started "Meanwhile, on September ..." to excuse it being out of chronological order.
Note - my computer might have scrambled any names with accents/symbols - it doesn't recognise some of the special characters.
All just suggestions - I'm not offended by anything you want to do differently - it's your name on the top!
|May-16-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: Hmmm. From the big para above, better might be:
<to assure themselves of a modestly good placing, while entertaining little risk along the way.>
and <Timman performed as expected, but not beyond> - just to reduce the incidence of the word 'play' which keeps cropping up. Also 'expectations' is on the next line!
|May-17-15|| ||Tabanus: <diagonal> Thanks! You are absolutely correct, for example Hübner is also missing. I changed it to <which would involve many of the major players of the time, (5) but not the World Champion himself, Anatoly Karpov and some more.>|
Not sure how good that is, but this one is a bit difficult. The cited source in fact says "all the major players".
<PMD> Yours next, but perhaps not until tomorrow.
|May-17-15|| ||diagonal: <Tabanus> good solution! |
<Paint My Dragon> indeed, it's difficult to know where to stops, SOME of the major players of the time are always missing in a closed invitation tournament, eg. at Niksic 1983 apart from the already mentioned greats also Alexander Beliavsky.
Tournament sites and media coverage naturally tends to focus of the invited / playing competitors and subsequently ignoring the absentees.
Of course, the name of the reigning World Champion is always a class by himself, by definition :)
The wording now is fair to all, and the perfect symbiosis of <relevance> and <elegance>, many thanks!
|May-17-15|| ||Tabanus: <PMD> Done! Read through once more if you want. I followed most of your suggestions, except the Oscar paragraph. I would have to rearrange the footnotes, and perhaps the Oscar influenced FIDE's decision on 4 October, who knows? I put in fact the paragraph there by purpose.|
|May-17-15|| ||Tabanus: <<both Candidates Semifinal matches took place in London.>|
I've mentioned both explicitly now, but I'm not sure if it's better. Perhaps just "both Candidates Semifinal matches".
|May-17-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: <Tab> < ... took place in London>|
I think either is fine.
Always good to have another read through – not sure I have all the answers, but I’d pick out the following points for some more thought …
Firstly, how about:
<... Milunka Lazarevic, one of the Niksic organizers. She was sincerely worried about his situation, and by inviting him to the tournament, would not only improve the tournament’s prestige, but would present the 20-year-old, already No. 2 in the world rankings, with the perfect platform to demonstrate his world championship credentials. Despite the absence of current world champion Anatoly Karpov, the grandmasters taking part included many of the world’s finest.> Any better?
"Kasparov's ability to crush leading grandmasters is reminiscent of Bobby Fischer." – not sure who said this? Larsen? Someone in the audience?
“effortlessly and easily” – these mean almost the same thing. Would any other words improve it and keep true to the translation? I feel the same way about my “solidly and quietly” – probably just one word would suffice in that case.
“The Grandmasters' Council, represented by Raymond Keene, Gligoric, and Timman, also pledged its support.” – hmmm, the Oscars can of course stay where you want them, but I think this wording now needs expanding to make it clear they weren’t supporting his Oscar.
“While Seirawan scored well with the White pieces, he lost almost everything as Black.” Sorry, didn’t notice that ‘while’ was in the previous line, so sounds a bit clumsy. Maybe just <Seirawan scored well with the White pieces, but he lost almost everything as Black.>
I was also a bit unclear about what was meant by the speed chess title being valuable to K and K in Fischer's absence. Does that need rewording a bit, or am I missing something?
Okay, I could nitpick this forever, but it won’t put my supper on the table. Besides, my eyes are too tired now. Over to you :)
|May-17-15|| ||Tabanus: <PMD> First thing tomorrow. I'll probably even be able to switch paragraphs then.|
|May-18-15|| ||Tabanus: <PMD> Here you are again! I'm hoping for "green light" soon.|
I switched the last two paragraphs, + added "Meanwhile,"
Accepted <Seirawan scored well> etc.
<<Lazareva ... finest.> Any better?> Yes probably, English-wise, but Kasparov does not say all this (cf. footnote 5)? Left unchanged for now, hmm..
"Kasparov's ability to crush leading grandmasters is reminiscent of Bobby Fischer." <– not sure who said this? Larsen? Someone in the audience?> It's footnoted (11), so Shelby Lyman wrote it (it's a quote).
“effortlessly and easily” –<Would any other words improve it and keep true to the translation?> It's Seirawan's own words (see quote marks), so it should probably not be changed.
<I was also a bit unclear about what was meant by the speed chess title being valuable to K and K in Fischer's absence. Does that need rewording a bit, or am I missing something?>
I just report what Korchnoi said. What he meant by it is unclear to me, but let me try: "Fischer was popular in Yugoslavia, sad he's not here. Now K and I are the two best, it's important that we meet and play." I can sort of imagine Korchnoi talking about this speed chess title in front of an audience, making a "performance".
|May-18-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: <Tab> I don't thnk I have anything new to mention. It looks pretty good. If you do leave the Lazarevic (onwards) para as it is, then I would recommend modifying to "one of the <Niksic> organizers", as you were previously talking about the Candidates. Also to drop the "and some others" - 'many' already covers/implies that.|
The Lyman quote could be tagged ' - Lyman', or more generally, 'One commentator remarked ...' if it helps to remove the need for the reader to check the footnotes?
You could well be correct about that 'valuable speed chess title' passage. He regularly put Fischer on a pedestal and regarded him and Kasparov as his allies, so maybe wanted to keep the title between them or, more typically Korchnoi, away from his detractors. Not sure that the average reader will understand it though!
One final thought - the text includes the condition that Korchnoi's boycott should be lifted, but doesn't confirm that it was done. Worth adding that?
|May-18-15|| ||Tabanus: <PMD> Niksic and Lyman added, and "and some more" deleted. I don't know where to put in the lifted boycott, hope it's not too necessary.|
Thanks for all the help! I'll promote it now.
|May-19-15|| ||Tabanus: <PMD> I'm forced to rest my eyes, and hope you can be an editor soon. I will help you get started, just ask here (or in your forum) when time comes. Also i can find information for you (from sources you don't have). But paraphrasing I can't promise - and you don't need it!|
|May-19-15|| ||Paint My Dragon: <T> I'm still planning to do it but these damned home improvements have got to be done first. They are the nightmare that never goes away. The roof is leaking now, so I will soon have to get on with it.|
But yes, when the day comes, I will need some guidance in the basics, and those Scandinavian and newspaper sources look very useful!
|May-20-15|| ||Tabanus: <PMD> Ok. I understand. Water dripping on the keyboard is not good!|
|May-24-15|| ||jessicafischerqueen: |
heh... I hadn't seen your previous post, and you accurately guessed I hadn't been reading all the Bistro posts either.
I've been busy at work, and to be honest I'm also glad of <Z's> new strategy to move the "technical computer" discussion to the main <cg.com> page, rather than holding it in the Bistro.
Better on all fronts that way, in my opinion.
|May-24-15|| ||Tabanus: <jess> I agree! If I'm not scaring away biographers, then certainly this technical discussion is. It has also made me lose motivation. What is the purpose, what's the goal? Is our work futile? Should I wait till the geeks have resolved all technical problems?|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 76 OF 76 ·
from the Chessgames Store