< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 68 OF 68 ·
|May-08-15|| ||chancho: Tony.
The day finally came.
Wesley should have dealt with the shenenigans on his page a long, long time ago.
But it's good to see that he has finally done so now.
When he finds the time he should rinse clean and repeat his player page as well.
That would be a bonus.
|May-09-15|| ||SugarDom: My uncle always says, never celebrate too early.
Wesso crossed his number one fan tolengoy by banning his socks on his page. I mean how stupid can you get?
Tolengoy, the sockmaster. You know what will happen in the near future.
|May-09-15|| ||tpstar: How fortunate that my summary post came right before the rule change.|
Several people have suggested that the Wesley So page should be erased from the top for a fresh start. I disagree because the same people will do the same things over again. Preserving the content will help limit repeat offenders, provided someone remembers where to find everything. Then again, Wesley and his team may always delete at will, even as they can't believe what lies within those seven thousand pages.
<kibitzing mess> <shenanigans> It is unfair to blame Wesley for the rulebreaking, just as it is unfair to blame the site for the rulebreaking. I am also relieved that he took a stand, first by banning certain posters from his player page, but more importantly by severing ties with dubious figures who were clearly using him for fame and fortune. You remember that pirate guy who liked to go around "defending" him ("You mess with Wes, you have to go through me!") while the pirate guy was actually causing problems just so he could "defend" him - a curious double standard. (I can't use his personal information anymore so you'll just have to figure it out.) Oh yes, I remember when that pirate guy complained about me on the site chessforum trying to get me booted out of here. This was shortly after he and the donut guy (I can't use his personal information anymore) had this fine idea to ban people from the site for a full day after fighting, so they could target their enemies in a tag team fashion. Then the pirate guy and the bra guy (I can't use his personal information anymore) played games with the site awards, doing the anti-hero act trying to ruin it for everybody. Then the pirate guy kept talking about corporate sponsorship for WS, even as he helped make that player page into a toxic mountain of embarrassment for any chess professional, thereby unwittingly driving away potential business interest just as he drove away other posters. In retrospect, Wesley didn't need money; he needed adult guidance which was sorely lacking from the RP end. Thank God he became an American!
I joined the Wesley So page in 2009 when he was 15, still a junior but also still a minor. It was stunning to watch those adults use him and abuse him, trying to live vicariously through him. There are several decent supporters to be found, and still are, but they were way outnumbered by the criminal element. It was even worse to know that his mother followed along (who could read all of the Tagalog hate speech) and what she must have thought of our site. Pray for healing in their family.
|May-11-15|| ||Richard Taylor: Who is Weskey So-so? Is he any good at chess?|
|May-11-15|| ||tpstar: Yes.
|May-11-15|| ||scout118: Much appreciate your helpful posts on the Wesley So page!|
|May-11-15|| ||tpstar: <scout118> Greetings =)|
Wesley So has hundreds of fans here, and 98% of us wish him well and support his career. Unfortunately, there are five hardcore users who won't respect his wishes and won't follow the rules. This is not just a 1-2 year problem; it is a 5-8 year problem. Team Wesley banned two outright, then two more split for the moment, but we are stuck with the fifth as he is too much of a narcissist to ever stop talking about himself. Another quirk about that page is how several people are using one handle, so they are still "there" even when they aren't. In addition, we just saw a flurry of new and/or alternate identities where we can't tell who is who yet. Things are much better for the moment, except there may be more casualties, especially if anyone reads that page from the top.
Interesting that he said "GM’s complained" which I am guessing was primarily Susan Polgar, but who knows who else said what. One useful rule of thumb is never post anything on this site that you wouldn't want your favorite player to read.
We still have unresolved tension as certain individuals decide whether they are pro-Wesley or anti-Wesley. If there are persistent problems, <Wesley So> could always open his chessforum to meet and greet his fans.
|May-12-15|| ||scout118: Not sure who "Team Wesley" is but, great clean-up job so far!|
As for those pesky weeds which require constant gardening, you can probably start with the obvious sock puppets who shouldn't fool anyone for a single moment and are automatic entries to my ignore list:
|May-13-15|| ||tpstar: <Not sure who Team Wesley is> In the big picture, now we all know who isn't.|
Looking back at the updated list, three of the five were banned outright. How about that.
<obvious sock puppets> Except some are less obvious.
In this case, the intervention worked, yet it also underscores the difficulty of free membership posting freely. The site awards have been sabotaged by anonymous accounts, with a very real possibility that someday the voting will only involve Premium members. Hopefully this motif wouldn't extend to player pages, as name players can always Moderate their page.
|May-13-15|| ||chancho: It's comical as all get out; seeing the <So banned menagerie> posting their frustrated drivel in the page of a 47 year old Filipino Master.|
They are even asking for a photo of the player?! :-))
Clearly they are still smarting from getting booted from the So page.
I well remember the last 6 years or so, how they disrespected Tony with tpstar starry night and all other kinds of jackassery.
But the day finally came, and Mister Palmer is the one laughing last, and laughing the best.
Payback is a biaaatch!!
|May-13-15|| ||tpstar: Ultimately, <Wesley So> is the one laughing last and best.|
There may be something about Filipino culture that just does not translate well outside of RP, in that being mean to others may be a strange show of respect or fellowship. Lots of male groups have hazing, or spanking, or initiations, or other types of systemic malarkey before gaining full rights, except in this case I believe it was the core personalities involved more than any nationalistic bent. <zanshin> was never like that, and neither was <fictionist>, or any other Filipino posters back in the old days. I also think people joined here without understanding this site, how posts are permanent and most users have long memories, along with the simple fact that the old guard just can't be driven away, even despite song parodies about going insane and drinking urine.
Similar to Kramnik supporters, if only those Wesley So fans had spent all that time and energy making things better instead of making things worse for how many years. The sockpuppet shenanigans were a giant waste of time, along with this persistent fixation on post count. In cyberspace, what is the point?
|May-14-15|| ||Richard Taylor: How did all this controversy about Wesley So arise? Without following it my guess it was some kind of language problem, possibly some racism or nationalism taken to excess. So a kind of counter attack and then everyone has forgotten how it all started...I have played over his games from time to time and he is very good. His style? More or less dynamic. He is in the top ten. Not sure exactly but he clashes swords with Carlsen and his ilk or is close to their level.|
What I have found regarding Filipino players is that, those in NZ I have played have, well the games have been some of the most fascinating I have played. Henry Vital and I had two amazing long games, and Noel Pinnic who is over 2100, I forget his rating...well he beat me in a Rapid but I made a great and complex attack against his Centre-Counter and it ended in a draw, but it was an exciting and complex game. One other Filipino player beat me when he essayed a Scotch.
I haven't uploaded those games but they were very interesting.
So I have ignored the sites where there has been argy bargy about or around Wesley So and looked at his games from time to time. His name has been mentioned by Barden who still does a puzzle each week for the NZ Listener and also The Guardian. It seems since going to the US he is doing well.
|May-14-15|| ||Richard Taylor: The question is rhetorical of course, I don't want to go there!|
|May-14-15|| ||tpstar: <everyone has forgotten how it all started> No.|
<since going to the US he is doing well> Yes.
|May-18-15|| ||Richard Taylor: Well, I meant not literally "everyone" but I was thinking of fights in general. And it is nearly impossible to work out how something actually started. Quite seriously it raises complex philosphic questions of causation: which of course don't apply in a court. (But in a deep sense "free will" DOES apply or affect the law (and religion)...|
But I suspect that MANY have reasons for keeping these feuds going that go way outside the original cause....(And that there are many reasons why they keep going and will always occur, if it's not X it will be P or Y...)
Of course he is doing well, and was. I am indifferent really as I don't come here to worship any chess player.
And if people cant take a bit of argy bargy well they are in problems.
In fact anything would be better than the stupidity of the Kibitzer's cafe.
How did the First World War start? Oh someone threw a bomb. No, there was this alliance and this group and there was the Morrocan crisis which didn't work for the Germans and there was, well, there was the Austro Hungarian Empire and the Balkans and the Ottoman and well there was the Prussians and later the German Empire adn the British Empire and the US and French Revolutions and then and then....ad infinitem...
Of he said that then he said that and she did that then he said "boo!" to me, what a AWFUL thing to do, and then they said that and he went here....
It never ends, humans always find a reason to argue and have crises. It is what keeps us all alive...
|May-18-15|| ||Richard Taylor: All that said it is good that such things keep more or less civilized and we try to get on with each other, regardless of whether it is a GM or a beginner. |
We are all, supposedly, (and whatever level or whatever nation or ethnicity etc) one world of chess as in gens una sumus, the slogan of FIDE.
But I am not naive enough to dream there will ever be any real "justice" on this earth though...As Dr. Wayne Dyer calls it, it is 'The Justice Trap'. A myth, this idea of justice and fairness. But we can keep a reasonable working balance overall. We might be able to be "betterer".
|May-18-15|| ||Everyone: <tpstar: <everyone has forgotten how it all started> No.> Oh yes! :^)|
|May-18-15|| ||tpstar: Oh no. :P|
|May-18-15|| ||cormier: u r bless by the presence of God too Tony ... have a great day ....|
|May-19-15|| ||scout118: <tpstar> Greetings! Apologies for having to delete some of your posts in conjunction with a reply to <ep/norito> to avoid drawing unwarranted attention.|
I do support your /Team Wesley's objectives. Your substantive contributions to improve content in GM So's page are a delight to read.
|May-20-15|| ||OhioChessFan: For the first time, I am begining to think I will fill my ignore list. I don't care who is on who's side. I am just massively tired of the stupidity I keep seeing on the recent kibitzing page. It is disturbing to think there are so many unbalanced people running around. Go tpstar!|
|May-20-15|| ||tpstar: <scout118> That lull was very useful. =)|
All of us post in the chessforum world with the expressed understanding that our work product may get the ax. The worst offender was <JoeWms> who would get mad and shut down his chessforum, erasing everything, then restart it again, then erase it again, etc. In general, we shouldn't remove items during any high profile episode in case people missed things along the way, yet this one was quite different in that <Wesley So> did the punishing instead of the Administrators. The usual course is these unrepentant rulebreakers act like a bunch of babies, running around causing as much trouble as possible, then state their case at the site chessforum shouting, "<tpstar> started it! Punish him!" etc ad infinitum.
One more summary post and I will get off it. Eduardo Bernal split so he is of no consequence. There are still five primary figures acting up: the pirate guy, the narcissist guy, the transgender guy, the donut guy, and #5 who was just identified after "leaving" us a few times before. Going forward, the adults have two primary courses of action. The nice way is Benign Benevolent Banishment (BBB) where we ignore their shenanigans and let them wallow in their own squalor. These people have spent the last seven years supporting their meal ticket, I mean their status symbol, I mean their favorite player, so it must cut them through the heart knowing they were openly rejected. We can afford to let them be taken at face value as long as they behave, now that they will be dealt with when their true colors show up, either by Team Wesley or the PITA mechanism. One long term observer believes this spate of fighting will burn itself out very shortly anyway, once they realize that they will never get back in his good graces so this is all wasted time. At the moment, they certainly have no shortage of enemies who just can't wait to take shots, but at least it is all off the Wesley So page. The other approach is Take Out the Trash (TOTT) where we get pitchforks and torches to drive this five away for good. This may be satisfying yet unsuccessful, as these unbalanced people can choose other usernames instantly, so the intervention would unwittingly provoke the same disputes and troublemaking all over again. I promise to limit this second approach except for #5 who sabotaged the Wikipedia entry which was a fatal mistake. Thus in the future, BBB means leave them alone, while TOTT says no mercy.
|May-20-15|| ||scout118: <tpstar> It was indeed as recent as the first week of May when Wesley's page was still overwhelmed with crass banter and diatribe, driving the GM himself from his own chessgames tribute site.|
So the measures you /Team W took have been quite effective.
As you neutralize the remainder of your gallery of rogues, the rest should mostly toe the line as they do now. I can tell that most of them are overseas workers (OFW's in Phil parlance) who would not want any of this to spill into and affect their day jobs and families.
At the end of the day, Bernxx, Beroxx & co. are a bunch of nobodies who knew that WS was way out of their league. The earth shattering move of transferring feds jolted them to reality.
WU was beneficial but SP /PT've been acting as though they too were scorned instead of supporting their ex-Board 1 in his career path. The young man called a spade and chucked up to their tabs the sinister and obvious key roles played in sabotaging his mindset playing those two most recent tournaments.
Curioser and curioser.
|May-21-15|| ||OhioChessFan: I just noticed that on the day Wesley So graduated high school, some of your detractors gave you the honor of confusing you with an NBA All Star.|
|May-21-15|| ||tpstar: So that's why Eva Longoria kept calling. :P|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 68 OF 68 ·
A free online guide presented by Chessgames.com