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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 296 OF 1067 ·
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Sep-24-06
 | | Ron: My impression is that the analysis given by Rybka is pretty good. We should utilize it (not necessarily go by it). |
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| Sep-24-06 | | MyCatPlaysChess: I love your last post <RookFile>! Quoting Karpov and Capablanca in a meaningful way... I really am learning from your analysis. If we win I am going to start the early voting your your MVP status! |
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| Sep-24-06 | | RookFile: <Tomlinsky: Also, it does NOT prevent black from developing a bishop on b7 if he wishes. It hinders it but it doesn't prevent it. If black, for example and from my experience, wishes to open the b file and put, say a rook on b8 with a bishop in front of it (maybe retracting it to a8) he can.> The rook moves to b8. The pawn moves to b6. We take the pawn, something recaptures on b6. The Knight hops to a5. Yes - your bishop goes to b7. Then it goes into the chess box on the side of the board - the knight on a5 takes it. We are quite satisified with this transaction.
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| Sep-24-06 | | Archives: Well, after reading the past few pages of analysis, ideas, and <RookFiles> brilliant post just above, I have finally settled on <a5> as my move of choice. |
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| Sep-24-06 | | avidfan: The move 11.Na3 seems most flexible in reaching b6 (while challenging N/e5) after the pawn advance a5. From b6 it will control c8 free from any pawn attacks. If 11...Nf6 12.Na3-c4 will force an exchange of N/e5 for B/d3 or N/c4 since 12...dxe5 doubles his centre pawns while opening the d-file.
To challenge the centre another d-pawn is needed which may occur after Black captures Nxd3. It is unlikely Black d,e pawns will advance because the king is still at e8. The centre is strongly held by the Black pawns and N/e5. After examining Shredder's analysis before today's 9...Ne5 at <twinlark>'s bio (now erased) , I conclude Bh6 is not too good for us. Two lines where Bg7 is played, we give up the dark-sq. bishop for a knight and emerge with Black having the Bishop-pair in semi-open positions facing a grim endgame. |
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| Sep-24-06 | | Nightranger: Bh6 as a means to keep the Black monarch in the center for a while, yes, but that will require h3 or f3 to keep the knight(s) out. Otherwise, it is counter productive to produce a dark square weakness on the king-side and then get rid of a piece that can exploit it. So far, I'm going with a5. I'm probably going to miss the next vote beacuse I won't have access to a computer. <Rookfile> - Very eloquent. |
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Sep-24-06
 | | Sneaky: <RookFile> Great stuff, I don't want to make a statement yet because I need to look at some games, but I am much more open minded to a5, in spite of the fact that we're spending two(!) moves in the opening to push a pawn that seems like it could just as easily stay at home. |
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| Sep-24-06 | | Tariqov: <randomvisitor> I know you are trying to help, but try to post less computer analysis as we have to try to play without it, eventhough it is allowed. This position is a bit positional so computers might have some errors, if you post your analysis people might just vote without thinking, we have to analyze ourselves! Tariqov
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| Sep-24-06 | | Tomlinsky: <Rookfile: The rook moves to b8. The pawn moves to b6. We take the pawn, something recaptures on b6. The Knight hops to a5. Yes - your bishop goes to b7. Then it goes into the chess box on the side of the board - the knight on a5 takes it. We are quite satisified with this transaction.> Good. So the pawn makes 3 moves, the knight will have made 5, neither will be on the board at the end of the sequence but we get the bishop which will have moved once The b file is half open on a file with, usually, a backward pawn and a black rook aiming at it. Glad you've got it covered. Thanks. |
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| Sep-24-06 | | blingice: Whenever someone pushes an edge pawn to their fifth rank, I feel like I'm playing someone afflicted with Downs Syndrome, especially when they haven't developed. 11.Nc3
This group is threat construction at its worst: "OMG b5!!!11zorz!!1one!11" |
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| Sep-24-06 | | Robin01: We need to develop a piece. I like Nc3. |
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Sep-24-06
 | | keypusher: <Whenever someone pushes an edge pawn to their fifth rank, I feel like I'm playing someone afflicted with Downs Syndrome, especially when they haven't developed.> Clearly the man playing White here is profoundly retarded. Alekhine vs Rubinstein, 1921 |
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| Sep-24-06 | | positionalgenius: a5 leads???? Come on! is every voter dumb??
Lets finish development or he will crush us.He beat Hydra so we are nothing. |
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| Sep-24-06 | | awalters869: why r we moving the "a" pawn a second time? what strategic benefit does it have? we are ahead on time, we need piece play not pawn moves. Black has moved his QN a second time and still has not castled. Nc3 is solid and follows the precepts of opening play. |
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| Sep-24-06 | | theprophecy19: I see a lot of possible variations and reasons why you guys should consider the following moves...(Nc3) because it protects the b5 square if he plans to push that b-pawn and it develops a piece. (f4) is a decent move because it will force him into either capturing the bishop on d3 or force him to retreat and if he retreats then you've gained a tempo then Nc3 or a minor piece development would be a nice follow up. But when capturing if the bishop is taken after f4 then I think it would be wise to capture with the pawn, and not the queen; the ratio of pawns on each side would be even and not unbalanced. I think an interesting move after bishop f4 would be Nc5 and if he takes then you'd capture the knight while simultaneously attacking the rook and his only defense could be either bishop f6 or f6 and I think playing f6 would allow for a weakness in his kingside development. |
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| Sep-24-06 | | tolow47: Nickel has mad an awkward yet dynamic move. There is no way that white can prevent the white bishop from being taken. So I say lets follow suit with a similary move Bf4. Then Nb1d2 then we have a queen side attack worth mentioning. |
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| Sep-24-06 | | RandomVisitor: The Hiarcs 10 opening book lists these moves as playable: 11.a5, 11.Nc3, 11.h3, 11.Rd1
with slightly better results from 11.a5.
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| Sep-24-06 | | NateDawg: <awalters869 <why r we moving the "a" pawn a second time? what strategic benefit does it have?>> I will repeat what I said on page 295 for the benefit of you and all other doubters of 11.a5 The reasons for 11.a5 are twofold.
First, it prevents Black from playing ...b6 and developing his queenside bishop at b7. He is instead forced to put it at d7 and then probably c6, where it can be exchanged off by d4. Second, a pawn at a5 allows a White piece (preferably a Bishop since this defends the pawn) to go to b6. Another asset of b6 is that it makes Black's queen go to an inferior square. If Black's bishop is still at c8, then the queen at d7 locks it in. If Black's bishop is at d7, then his queen must retreat to c8 or e8. This is why 11.a5 is the best move in this position. |
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| Sep-25-06 | | zerathul: just my two cents for the people with fast computer and good engines until the game opens up we definitely use Rybka, since its the engine with the best positional and stategic understanding available later it will be good to see what Hiarcs and Toga thinks, cause they often found interesting lines.
Frit 9 shows its best on tactics, way too early to be useful |
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| Sep-25-06 | | Archives: To all those wondering why <a5> If you go back one page in kibitzing, there is a very good long post by <RookFile> which explains why <a5> is a good move to do here. |
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| Sep-25-06 | | Tomlinsky: Will people stop claiming that a5 prevents Bb7? It does no such thing! It's become a chinese whisper that nobody has bothered checking and it's not the only instance either. There are several moves in this position that with a 'plan' could be very effective. But it's all over, we're reduced to a few moves already with no overall objective other than dubious positional judgements. |
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| Sep-25-06 | | tolow47: Tom i couldn't agree more. We talk all this smack about getting together and coming up with new ideas and counters and all we do is just follow this line extremely badly. At this point we're fighting to keep a draw. I'll tell everyone now If we don't respond to this dynamic move correctly we will lose. Why in you know who's name are we worried about a5. when its a given our trapped bishop is a sitting duck. reminds me of a post i wrote how we are cramped. a5 does not address our weaknesses at hand. A5 and Nc3 are prolonging moves that does not restrict black contrary to popular belief. Black has one thing white does not and thats called coordination. look it up please! |
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| Sep-25-06 | | babywizard: <Tomlinsky><Will people stop claiming that a5 prevents Bb7? It does no such thing! It's become a chinese whisper that nobody has bothered checking and it's not the only instance either.> That's why I don't even bother to vote for the moves anymore. This game is becoming more and more meaningless, especially when it is played out the way that you disagree with. People here only look at the stats in chessgames.com and their engines as a basis to decide on the opening moves, but they don't realize that Mr Nickel also have databases and chess engines too. |
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| Sep-25-06 | | brankat: At this point <a5> is clearly a waste of time. Although White, we have not been able to gain any advantage in development, neither do we look any better in terms of space. In this opening White should have at least one of the two in first 10 moves. So, the question arises: why have we NOT accomplished it? First and foremost, IMO, we have been overly concerned with A.Nickel, instead with our game. When that happens, it tends to block a free thinking mind to some extent. Instead of being active, one is too passive, and waits for the other side to take the lead. This kind of approach usually doesn't yield good results. Secondly, I think we have paid too much attention to computer engines's analysis so early in the game. What is it, in the 1st 10 moves of a well known Opening, that an engine "KNOWS", and we (with a little help from the Opening Explorer) DON'T? I suggest, at this early stage, we start using our own knowledge/experience/common sense, and the Explorer, but cautiously, without blindly accepting the stats. Having gotten all of this off my chest, I strongly reccomend a somewhat overdue <11. Nc3>, so we can get back in the game. |
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| Sep-25-06 | | babywizard: Losing the bishops pair with no development gain nor initiative is only the beginning to a bad game. I agree with <brankat>, 11.Nc3 should be played as soon as possible and then decide whether to play on the half open d-file or move the rooks to e1 and f1 followed by f4-f5. |
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