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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 499 OF 838 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Apr-19-07 | | tbentley: <guywithgzus>Fritz 9: 3 is the engine used, version 9.3 of Fritz. 1.61/16 means it calculates a 1.61 advantage for white after 16 ply. I don't know what $11 means. |
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| Apr-19-07 | | tbentley: <guywithgzus>I looked it up; $11 means "equal chances, quiet position". It's an example of a numeric annotation glyph, a list is found at http://www.very-best.de/pgn-spec.ht.... |
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| Apr-19-07 | | Themofro: Quick observation on chess in general;
i remember reading somewhere that the best thing about playing white is that a mistake or innacurate move as white means that you lose the initiative, will generally take a second innacruate move before you will probably lose the game, however as black a first innacurate move or mistake and you could very well lose the game. I think that we've identified 15 a3 as one innacurate move/slight mistake, which cost white the initiative, now if only we could get a second... |
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Apr-19-07
 | | GoldenKnight: <Tabanus: <GoldenKnight> Your line 29...Qe7 30.e6 b5 transposes to 29...b5 30.e6 Qe7, where I think 31.Qc3 is better than 31.Kh1> Looks like you are right:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.3 LK mp 32-bit (Depth=22 for first two lines, 21 for the rest): 1. = (0.00): 31...d4 32.Qg3 Rf6 33.Qb8+ Qf8 34.Qb7 Rg6+ 35.Kh1 Be2 36.f4 Bxd1 37.e7 Bf3+ 38.Qxf3 2.  (0.46): 31...a5 32.bxa5 d4 33.Qg3 Rf6 34.Qb8+ Qf8 35.Qxf8+ Kxf8 36.Bxd4 Rg6+ 37.Bg2 Nxa5 38.Bc3 3. = (0.22): 31...Rf6 32.Qe5 d4 33.Bf5 a6 34.Bxd4 Nxd4 35.Rxd4 Bxe6 36.Bc2 Rf7 37.Be4 g6 38.f3 4. (0.28): 31...Rd8 32.Qe5 d4 33.f4 d3 34.f5 d2 35.Bg2 Qg5 36.Qg3 Qxg3 37.hxg3 Rd3 38.Kf2 5. (0.36): 31...a6 32.Qg3 d4 33.f4 d3 34.f5 Qa7+ 35.Qf2 Qe7 36.Qg2 Kh8 37.Kh1 Rd8 6. (0.37): 31...h6 32.Qg3 d4 33.f4 Qf6 34.Re1 Nd2 35.Bg4 Bd5 36.e7 Re8 37.Re5 Bb7 38.Bxd4 7. (0.41): 31...Qg5+ 32.Qg3 Qxg3+ 33.hxg3 Re8 34.f4 d4 35.f5 g6 36.Bxd4 Nxd4 37.Rxd4 gxf5 38.Bxf5 |
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Apr-19-07
| | GoldenKnight: <Knightlord: <GoldenKnight> I take it that white can't play Rd3 after 28...exd5 29.Bh3 Qe7? e.g 28...exd5 29.Bh3 Qe7 30.Rd3 Bxd3 31.Qxd3 Qg5+ 32.Kh1> I think you take correctly. White can now rescue the N with 32...Nd2, or may even be able to threaten the K directly with 32...Qf4 or 32...Rxf2 or something. I haven't analyzed it with an engine, but my intuition tells me No. <Knightlord: <capafan: <Knightlord>Do your also have a variation where white plays 30.Bg2 (also playable) after Qe7 in your latest line?>You mean <GoldenKnight>. I'm just an idiot.> No, you're definitely not. But, to <capafan>, I would reply, No. I started from where White plays Bh3, so I don't know what trees were looked at from ...Qe7. However, off the cuff, it looks like it transposes into other lines I've seen where Black can now play ...Qh4 threatening ...d4. He could probably even play ...Qe6, as White has given up his pressure on our one weak spot. |
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| Apr-19-07 | | RandomVisitor: <Themofro><I think that we've identified 15 a3 as one innacurate move/slight mistake, which cost white the initiative, now if only we could get a second...>Against a player of Shulman's ability, that will be tough. |
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Apr-19-07
| | GoldenKnight: 28....exd5 for the pollster. My own and others' analysis tells me that GMYS will not play 29.a4. If he does, it may be the slight inaccuracy we are looking for. |
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| Apr-20-07 | | thezimboman: gosh I think ill have to go with exd5 |
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| Apr-20-07 | | Artar1: <GoldenKnight: 28....exd5 for the pollster. My own and others' analysis tells me that GMYS will not play 29.a4. If he does, it may be the slight inaccuracy we are looking for.> Me too for 28...exd5. I think Yury will play 29.Bh3. |
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| Apr-20-07 | | MarkThornton: <GoldenKnight: <Tabanus: <GoldenKnight> Your line 29...Qe7 30.e6 b5 transposes to 29...b5 30.e6 Qe7, where I think 31.Qc3 is better than 31.Kh1>
Looks like you are right:
Analysis by Rybka 2.3 LK mp 32-bit (Depth=22 for first two lines, 21 for the rest): 1. = (0.00): 31...d4 32.Qg3 Rf6 33.Qb8+ Qf8 34.Qb7 Rg6+ 35.Kh1 Be2 36.f4 Bxd1 37.e7 Bf3+ 38.Qxf3 2. (0.46): 31...a5 32.bxa5 d4 33.Qg3 Rf6 34.Qb8+ Qf8 35.Qxf8+ Kxf8 36.Bxd4 Rg6+ 37.Bg2 Nxa5 38.Bc3 3. = (0.22): 31...Rf6 32.Qe5 d4 33.Bf5 a6 34.Bxd4 Nxd4 35.Rxd4 Bxe6 36.Bc2 Rf7 37.Be4 g6 38.f3 4. (0.28): 31...Rd8 32.Qe5 d4 33.f4 d3 34.f5 d2 35.Bg2 Qg5 36.Qg3 Qxg3 37.hxg3 Rd3 38.Kf2 5. (0.36): 31...a6 32.Qg3 d4 33.f4 d3 34.f5 Qa7+ 35.Qf2 Qe7 36.Qg2 Kh8 37.Kh1 Rd8 6. (0.37): 31...h6 32.Qg3 d4 33.f4 Qf6 34.Re1 Nd2 35.Bg4 Bd5 36.e7 Re8 37.Re5 Bb7 38.Bxd4 7. (0.41): 31...Qg5+ 32.Qg3 Qxg3+ 33.hxg3 Re8 34.f4 d4 35.f5 g6 36.Bxd4 Nxd4 37.Rxd4 gxf5 38.Bxf5> I'm a bit bothered by this posting. I seems that 29. Bh3 b5 30. e6 Qe7 31. Qc3 leaves us with a single line that maintains equality. If this line cannot be improved, then I recomend 29...Qf3 (or ...Qh5) 30. Bg2 Qf7 and offer a draw. |
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| Apr-20-07 | | MarkThornton: <kutztown46: FORUM UPDATE:
There are now six ideas on the table for forums:
1) 28...exd5 29. Bh3 Qh5
2) 28...exd5 29. Bh3 Qf3
3) 28...exd5 29. Bh3 b5
4) 28...exd5 29. a4 a6
5) 28...exd5 29. a4 Qe6
6) 28...exd5 29. f3 (perhaps 29. other than Bh3 or a4) I'll be monitoring this page for less than an hour. Tonight will be my last night at home without a computer. My nice new computer will be delivered tomorrow (I'll be at home) and hopefully by afternoon I can check in. In the meantime, let's see how many are willing to host a forum. If you want one, just make sure no one else claimed it, post a message and get started. I'll catch up tomorrow.> My gut feel is that 6 forums is too many. My suggestion is 1) 29. Bh3
2) 29. a4
3) 29. Anything else
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| Apr-20-07 | | afioonov: hi every1,and specialy you <tef>.im working on Bh3.nothing yet to beat YS.that shows the deep understanding of the dynamics of this position from <Hugin>.and by the way <tef> im a student of chemistry too! |
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| Apr-20-07 | | afioonov: 
click for larger view28. exd5 exd5 29. Bh3 b5 30. e6 Fritz 9: Qe7 31. Kh1 d4 32. Qe4 Rd8 33. Qe5 Rd5 34. Qe4 Rd6 35. Qe5 a5 36. bxa5 Bd5+ 37. Bg2 Bxg2+ 38. Kxg2 Qxe639. Qxe6+ Rxe6 40. Bxd4 Rd6 41. a6 Nxd4 42. a7 Rg6+ 43. Kf1 Ra6 44. Rxd4 Rxa745. Rb4 Ra5 46. Rb3 Kf7 47. Ke2 g5 48. Kf3 h5 49. Kg3 Kf6 50. f3 h4+ 51. Kg4 Kg6 52. f4 Ra4 53. Rb4 Rxa3 54. Rxb5 gxf4 55. Rg5+ Kh6 56. Rh5+ Kg757. Kxf4 Ra4+ 58. Kg5 Ra5+ 59. Kxh4 Rxh5+ 60. Kxh5 Kh8 61. Kg5 Kg8
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| Apr-20-07 | | Boomie: <My gut feel is that 6 forums is too many.> Add to that the fact that using the forums has fallen out of favor. For example, the Bh3/b5/e6/Qe7 line has been discussed on MarkThornton's forum for many days. But it's like that never happened. Folks prefer to reinvent the wheel on the main page for some reason. |
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| Apr-20-07 | | Elixir of Life: <I'm a bit bothered by this posting. I seems that 29. Bh3 b5 30. e6 Qe7 31. Qc3 leaves us with a single line that maintains equality.> Can can we deviate from 30...Qe7 and play another move instead?? |
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| Apr-20-07 | | Elixir of Life: <Boomie> I thought the forums were mainly used to archieve important analysis from the main page into the forums? But I do agree with reinventing the wheel. People need to check the analysis. |
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Apr-20-07
 | | Tabanus: Ok, I did not know that the Bh3/b5/e6/Qe7 line has been discussed on MarkThornton's forum for many days. So I have removed my 28...exd5 29.Bh3 b5 30.e6 Qe7 forum. Feel free to copy from my forum into <MarkThornton>'s if you find something of interest. Which I doubt. |
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| Apr-20-07 | | spirit: me am really sic en da head right now,me just lost my phone! |
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| Apr-20-07 | | Hugin: Hi guys! i think i have good news!Look at this game higly interesting. It's a blitzgame between Rybka 2.3.1 and Hiarcs 11.1 mp: And analyses done by Hiarcs after the gam:28.exd5 exd5 29.Bh3 b5 30.e6 (Is the strongest line for white)30...Qh5 -0.35/13 11 31.Bg2 -0.29/12 8 Re8 -0.03/13 17 32.Re1 -0.16/13 6 d4 -0.03/11 2 33.Qe4 0.00/13 7 Bxe6 (Rxe6 gives white a easy draw) '
click for larger view
34 Bxd4 Bf7!
0.00/13 9 35.Be5 0.13/12 1 Nd2 Black threatens to win material: Nd2xe4 0.00/13 7 36.Qf4 White threatens to win material: Qf4xd2 0.14/13 6 36...Nc4 Black threatens to win material: Nc4xe5. The black knight on an outpost 0.00/13 7 37.Bc3 0.10/12 3 Rxe1+ 0.00/11 7 38.Bxe1 0.11/11 2 h6 0.00/12
7 39.Qb8+ (Bc3). White forks: a7+g8 0.00/12 7 39...Be8 (Kh7) 0.10/12 6 40.f4 0.03/12 7 Qe2 Black threatens to win material: Qe2xe1 0.02/11 6 41.Bf2 0.00/13 7 Kh7 0.00/11 6 42.h3 (h4) 0.00/13 8 [42.Qxa7?? the pawn is something White will choke on 42...Qd1+ 43.Bf1 Nd2  ] 42...a6 0.12/11 9 43.Qb7 (Qa7). White threatens to win material: Qb7xa6 0.00/13 5 43...Nd2 -0.03/11 5 44.Qxa6 (Qd5) 0.00/13 2 44...Qd1+ (Nf3+) -0.42/13 7 45.Kh2 -0.39/12 10 Nf1+ -0.47/13 2 46.Kh1 (Kg1) -0.41/15 7 46...Ne3+ -0.50/12 5 47.Kh2 -0.41/15 4 Nxg2 -0.61/13 Get's rid of whites bishop pair!!'
click for larger view
3 48.Qa8 (Qb7) -0.43/15 7 [48.Kxg2 Bf7 49.Qxb5 Bd5+ 50.Qxd5 Qxd5+ 51.Kf1 Kg6 ] 48...Nxf4 -0.55/13 5 49.Qe4+ White forks: h7+f4 -0.37/12 2 [49.Qxe8?? is not directly advisable since it leads to the following attractive mate 49...Qf3 50.Qe4+ Qxe4 51.Kg3 g5 52.Kg4 Ne2+ 53.Kh5 Qf3#] 49...Bg6 Black threatens to win material:(Ng6 is a lot weaker) Bg6xe4 -0.60/13 4 50.Qxf4 -0.35/13 1 Qe2 -0.61/13 4 51.Kg3 (Qe3) -0.35/14 9 51...Qc2 (Qa2) -0.47/13 9 52.Bc5 A classical outpost -0.34/11 4 52...Be4 Black has a mate threat -0.59/12 4 53.Qf2 -0.36/12 3 Qb3+ Black forks: a3+g3 -0.57/11 3 54.Qe3 White threatens to win material: Qe3xb3 -0.33/13 3 54...Qe6 -0.56/12 4 55.h4 -0.36/12 8 Qg6+ -0.49/11 2 56.Kf4 -0.35/10 0 Qf5+ -0.48/10 2 57.Kg3 -0.37/1 0 Bd5 (Bc6) -0.60/11 3 58.Bd4 (Qe2) -0.32/9 1 58...Bc6 (h5) -0.59/11 3 59.Qf4 (Qf2). White has a mate threat -0.37/11 4 59...Qc2 Black has a mate threat -0.60/11 3 60.Qf2 White threatens to win material: Qf2xc2 -0.40/12 6 60...Qg6+ -0.63/11 2 61.Kf4 -0.40/13 3 Qe4+ -0.61/11 3 62.Kg3 -0.36/1 0 Kg6 (Qd3+) -0.69/11 2 63.Be3 -0.43/13 2 Bd5 -0.67/11 2 64.h5+?! -0.52/14 12 (Maybe room for improvments) Kxh5 -0.74/14 2 65.Qe2+ -0.53/15 1 Kg6 -0.74/15 1 66.Qg4+ -0.53/13 1( Position is lost for white) Qxg4+ -0.95/17 1 67.Kxg4 -0.48/13 And black wins! |
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| Apr-20-07 | | Hugin: For the rest of the game posted, click on my avatar. |
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| Apr-20-07 | | benjinathan: 28...poll:
exd5: 24
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| Apr-20-07 | | realbrob: <Hugin> I'm sorry to sound naive, does this long analysis mean we have a refutation of 29.Bh3? Or just an idea of how to continue the game? Now I can't check all this on a chessboard or run rybka because I don't have time, but from what I could see using only my brain this is really interesting. I'll take a deeper look later on. |
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| Apr-20-07 | | Hugin: realbrob: <Hugin> I'm sorry to sound naive, does this long analysis mean we have a refutation of 29.Bh3? Or just an idea of how to continue the game?
Now I can't check all this on a chessboard or run rybka because I don't have time, but from what I could see using only my brain this is really interesting. I'll take a deeper look later on.<<<<<< Hey there the last post from me means there is still chances in 29 Bh3 variation but still some serious analysis to do...This was however the first line i found that gave a win for Black in that variation....So anyone that have time, check the lines posted and be prepared for 29 Bh3... |
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| Apr-20-07 | | guywithgzus: <tbentley> Thank you very much for your help. |
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Apr-20-07
| | Tabanus: I'm unable to find anything by Q&D sliding in 28...exd5 29.Bh3 b5 30.e6 <Qe7> and 28...exd5 29.Bh3 b5 30.e6 <Qf4>. I think <Hugin> is right: The last chance to deviate from RV's mainline (29...Qh5) is 28...exd5 29.Bh3 b5 30.e6 <Qh5>. RV's mainline starts out with 28...exd5 29.Bh3 Qh5 30.Bg2 Qg4, where white has A. 31.Re1 and now Nd4 or Qe6
B. 31.h3
Does this sound fair? |
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