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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 549 OF 838 ·
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| Apr-30-07 | | Timex: <Artar1> Thank you for clarifying what I said. I have never been good at analysis. |
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| Apr-30-07 | | Artar1: Timex:
Your analysis seems good to me. I just threw in a few pictures. |
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| Apr-30-07 | | Timex: <Artar1> Maybe, but i do not have chess software to assist me, so i have to guess. |
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Apr-30-07
 | | chancho: No chance of this happening, but:
31.Re4 Rc8 32.Bxd4 Bd5 33.Bc3 Bxe4 34.Bxe4 Nd4 35.Bxh7+? Kh8 36.Qd3 Rxc3 (37.Qxc3 Ne2+) 37.Qxd4 Rc1+ 38.Kg2 Kxh7 |
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| Apr-30-07 | | The Chess Express: Rc8 for the poll. |
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| Apr-30-07 | | MostlyAverageJoe: Rc8 for the poll. |
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| Apr-30-07 | | Chessmaster333: <Timex: <Chessmaster333> It does, but if you capture it with the bishop, you will run into 32... Bd5.
So, 31... Rc8 sets up an invisible threat against the queen. If 32. Bxd4, 32... Bd5, winning the exchange. Apr-30-07
Artar1: <Chessmaster333: I see the majoriy of the votes are for Rc8. Why is this so good dosn't it just lose us a pawn. it is said that if he takes the pawn we can get a better position can someone tell me how? please I'm not sure what to vote for.>
White cannot take the d-pawn, as follows:
31. Re4 Rc8 32. Bxd4 Bd5
click for larger view
33. Bc3 Qg6 34. f3 Nd4
click for larger view
35. Qd1 Bxe4 36. Bxd4 Bc2
click for larger view
Fritz 8, 15-ply:
1. (-2.06): 37.Qd2 Bxa4 38.Be3 Qb1+ 39.Bf1 Bb3 40.Qd7 Rf8 41.Qg4 Qe1 42.Qe4 Rc8 43.Bd4 Qxe4 44.fxe4 2. (-2.25): 37.Qe1 Bxa4 38.Bf2 Bb3 39.Bg3 Rd8 40.Qc3 Be6 41.Qa1 Qd3 42.Bh4 Qd1+ 3. (-2.31): 37.Qa1 Bf5 38.Kh1 Qh6 39.Qa2+ Be6 40.Qe2 Qf4 41.Bg1 Qxb4 42.Qd1 Qf4 43.Qd4 4. (-2.59): 37.Qf1 Bxa4 38.Qe1 Bd7 39.Kh1 Rc2 40.Bf1 Bc6 5. (-3.34): 37.Qe2 Bf5 38.Qf1 Bh3 39.Kh1 Rc1 40.Bxh3 Rxf1+ 41.Bxf1 Qb1 42.Kg2 Qxb4 43.Bf2 Qxa4 44.Bd3 6. (-3.34): 37.Qc1 Bf5 38.Qf1 Bh3 39.Kh1 Rc1 40.Bxh3 Rxf1+ 41.Bxf1 Qb1 42.Kg2 Qxb4 43.Bf2 Qxa4 44.Bd3 Please vote for 31...Rc8; it's our best move.
Apr-30-07 ZeroOne: Chessmaster333: If 31...Rc8 32.Bxd4? Bd5! threatening to take the white queen with 33...Rxc2 but also threatening to take the white rook with 33...Bxe4. White cannot protect both of these pieces and looses quality.> Thank all of you guys for answering my question but especially <Atar1> your lines have helped me the best to see that Rc8 is the best move here. So I vote Rc8. |
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| Apr-30-07 | | Chessmaster333: Oh by the way who is winning in this position right now? I don't have a computer of chess software to assist me but I would say we are winning slightly. |
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| Apr-30-07 | | Themofro: <Chessmaster> We have a sizable advantage (around the upper edge of  , lower edge of  ) according to most computer evaluation. We have all the winning chances (white has virtually none) and at the very least a draw. You can't say it with certainty whether it's winning for black or not yet i don't think, but we are much better in the current position and can't do worse than draw while at the same time we have decent to strong winning chances i'd say. |
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| Apr-30-07 | | Themofro: <Chessmaster> Also, without computer evaluation you can come to the same conclusions based on the following reasons: 1. We have the better passed pawn
2. Our queen is more actively placed.
3. Our knight and bishop are ideally placed, hitting the essential d2, d3 and d4 squares. 4. White will probably be pretty passive in the near future. 5. Our rook is probably superior on c8 then the white rook will prove to be on e4. 6. We have the slightly bette pawn structure (3 pawn islands vs. 4 pawn islands) 7. theres the very real possibility that white might have to sack a peice to eliminate out d-pawn eventually, going into what would generally (though not always) be a win for us. Also, i beleive that there are websites where you can download chessprograms for free, can someone post a link for that here? Thanks. |
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| Apr-30-07 | | tbentley: Here's a list of free engines: http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccr... |
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May-01-07
 | | GoldenKnight: I have seen the possibility of 32.h4 bandied about here, so I decided to look for myself. Here's what happens to poor GMYS should he make the unfortunate decision to play that move:
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.3 LK mp 32-bit (depth=21):
1.  (-2.92): 32...d3 33.Qd1 d2 34.Bh3 Qe7 35.Bxc8 Qxh4 36.Bb7 Qg5+ 37.Kh1 Qf5 38.Bf3 Nc1 39.Kg2 2. (-0.68): 32...Qg6 33.Qxg6 hxg6 34.Bh3 Rd8 35.e6 Re8 36.Bg4 d3 37.Rh3 d2 38.Re3 Re7 39.Bc3 3. (-0.68): 32...h6 33.Bxd4 Qe7 34.Bd5+ Kh8 35.Rg4 Nxd4 36.Rxd4 Qg5+ 37.Bg2 Be6 38.f4 Rxc2 39.fxg5 4. (-0.68): 32...h5 33.Bxd4 Nxd4 34.Rxd4 b5 35.axb5 Bxb5 36.Bd5 Rxc2 37.Bxe6+ Kf8 38.Bf5 Re2 39.f4 5. (-0.68): 32...Qxe5 33.Qxh7+ Kf8 34.Re4 Qf6 35.Re3 Nd2 36.Bxd4 Bg8 37.Qxg8+ Kxg8 38.Bd5+ Qf7 39.Bxf7+ 6. (-0.68): 32...Qf7 33.Qxh7+ Kf8 34.Rh3 Ke7 35.Qh4+ Kd7 36.Qe4 d3 37.Rxd3+ 7. (-0.68): 32...Rc7 33.Qxh7+ Kf8 34.Qh5 d3 35.Qg5 I am now going to look at the line my forum is assigned to. |
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May-01-07
| | GoldenKnight: Wow, I just noticed, at 22 ply this line is really cool after 32.Rh4
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.3 LK mp 32-bit :
1. (-3.41): 32...d3 33.Qd1 d2 34.Bh3 Qe7 35.Bxc8 Qxh4 36.Bg4 Nc1 37.e6 Nd3 38.Bd4 h5 39.Bxh5 |
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| May-01-07 | | MarkThornton: I am looking at the line
31...Rc8 32. Qd1 Qf5 33. h3 Be6 <34. Qe2> and cannot see anything really good for Black. We're still better, of course, but we seem a long way from a win. Am I missing something? |
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| May-01-07 | | Artar1: MarkThornton:
I have several lines of play regarding h3. I'm still at work, and I will post these lines in about an hour or so. Stay tuned. |
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| May-01-07 | | MarkThornton: <Artar1: MarkThornton:
I have several lines of play regarding h3. I'm still at work, and I will post these lines in about an hour or so. Stay tuned.> I shall look forward to it!
In the mean time, I have found
31...Rc8 32. Qd1 Qf5 33. h3 Be6 34. Qe2 <Rd8> 35. Qd3 a5, aiming to win the c5 square for the knight. Now we have a) 36. bxa5 Nc5 37. Qe2 d3 is winning for Black.
b) 36. Ba3 Qf8 and Black wins a pawn.
c) 36. Bd4 axb4 <37. Qe3> and I'm stuck again. I can see we are better, but I can't see a winning line. |
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May-01-07
 | | Tabanus: <MarkThornton: 31...Rc8 32.Qd1 Qf5 33.h3 Be6 34. Qe2> Rybka 2.2, 23-ply:
1. (-1.01) 34...Rd8 35.Qd3 a5 36.Ba3 axb4 37.Bxb4 Nc5 38.Bxc5 bxc5 39.a5 c4 22-ply:
2. (-0.82) 34...h6 35.Qd3 Rd8 36.Ba3 Rf8 37.f4 Rd8 38.a5 Kh8 3. (-0.80) 34...Qg6 35.Qd1 Rf8 36.h4 Kh8 37.h5 Qg5 38.f4 Rxf4 4. (-0.79) 34...Rc4 35.Qd3 Rxb4 36.Bxd4 Nxd4 37.Rxd4 Qxd3 38.Rxd3 Rxa4 31...Rc8 32.Qd1 Qf5 33.h3 Be6 34.Qe2 Rd8 35.Qd3 a5 <36.Ba3>: Here 36...Qf8 can be met by 38.Qb5 d3 39.Re1 (16-ply -0.30 39...d2 40.Rd1) 36...Bxd4? 37.Nxd4!
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May-01-07
| | Tabanus: 31...Rc8 32.Qd1 Qf5 33.h3 Be6 34.Qe2 Rd8 35.Qd3 a5 36.Bxd4? Nxd4: 17-ply:
1. (-2.36) 37.bxa5 bxa5 38.Qe3 Nc2
2. (-2.58) 37.b5 h6 38.h4 Rd7
3. (-3.30) 37.Qe3 Nc2 38.Qxb6 Rd1+ |
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May-01-07
| | GoldenKnight: I will post tomorrow morning, but h3 is not looking good for White. |
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May-01-07
| | Tabanus: 31...Rc8 32.Qd1 Qf5 33.h3 Be6 34.Qe2 Rd8 35.Qd3 a5 36.Ba3 axb4 37.Bxb4 Nc5 38.Bxc5 bxc5 (18-ply): 1. (-1.19) 39.Qd2 d3 40.a5 c4
2. (-1.45) 39.f4 Qg6 40.Qb5 d3
The connected passed pawns should win.
"36...Bxd4? 37.Nxd4!": read 36.Bxd4? Nxd4! |
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| May-01-07 | | MarkThornton: <Tabanus: <MarkThornton: 31...Rc8 32.Qd1 Qf5 33.h3 Be6 34. Qe2> 1. (-1.01) 34...Rd8 35.Qd3 a5
36.Bxd4? Nxd4!>
Whoops! I had missed that 37. Rxd4 opens the f5-d3 diagonal. So 37...Qxd3 38. Rxd3 Rxd3 wins This comes of analysing quickly whilst having my breakfast! |
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| May-01-07 | | Artar1: This may not be saying much but
<31...Rc8 32.Qd1 Qf5 33.h3 Be6 34. Qe2> may be the best continuation for both sides. I am running my chess program on it now. |
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| May-01-07 | | Artar1: This is where I am currently with the line I just posted: 31.Re4 Rc8 32.Qd1 Qf5 33.h3 Be6 34.Qe2 Rc4 35.Qd3 Rxb4 36.Bxd4 Nxd4 37.Rxd4 Qxd3 38.Rxd3 Rxa4 39.Bc6 Deep Fritz 10, 20-ply:
1. (-1.11): 39...Rh4 40.Rd8+ Kf7 41.Rb8 Bc4 42.Rb7+ Ke6 43.Rxa7 Kxe5 44.Rxg7 Rxh3 45.Rb7 Rh6 46.Rxb6 Bd5 47.f4+ Kd4 2. (-1.11): 39...Ra5 40.f4 Kf7 41.Kf2 g5 42.Ke3 Ke7 43.Rc3 h6 44.h4 gxh4 45.Be4 Bd7 46.Bc6 Bg4 47.Be4 h3 3. (-1.06): 39...Rb4 40.Bd7 Kf7 41.Rd6 Bb3 42.Bg4 a5 43.Rd7+ Kg6 44.Rd6+ Kg5 45.e6 Kf6 4. (-1.02): 39...Ra1+ 40.Kg2 Kf7 41.Be4 Ra5 42.f4 g6 43.Rd8 Ra4 44.Kf3 Ra3+ 45.Kf2 5. -0.90): 39...Rc4 40.Rd6 Rc1+ 41.Kh2 Kf7 42.Bd7 Bb3 43.f4 Ke7 44.Bf5 g6 45.Bg4 h5 46.Bf3 Be6 47.Be4 Bf5 6. (-0.79): 39...Rf4 40.Rd8+ Kf7 41.Rb8 Kg6 42.Rb7 Bxh3 43.Rxa7 Be6 44.f3 h6 45.Be4+ Bf5 46.Bd5 Rd4 47.Bf7+ Kg5 48.Kf2 h5 7. (-0.81): 39...Ra6 40.f4 Kf7 41.Rd8 Ra5
8. (-0.81): 39...Ra2 40.Rd6 Kf7 41.Bd7 Bc4 42.Rc6 Ra1+ 43.Kh2 Bb5 44.Rc7 Bxd7 45.Rxd7+ |
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May-01-07
| | Tabanus: <MarkThornton> I am impressed that you found 34...Rd8 35.Qd3 a5 as the best line, without an engine! There are other good moves also, e.g. Artar1's 34...Rc4 <Artar1> I have taken the somewhat unnecessary 31...Rc8 32.Qd1 Qf5 33.Bxd4 forum! |
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| May-01-07 | | Artar1: I think there are several ways for White to lose in the 33.h3 line: 31.Re4 Rc8 32.Qd1 Qf5 33.h3 Be6 34.Qe2
click for larger view<[34.Kh2 Kh8 35.Qd3 35...Bd5 36.Rxd4 Nxd4 37.Qxd4 Be6 38.Bc3 Qc2 39.Bd2 Qxa4 40.Bb7 Rb8 41.Bg2 Qd7 42.Qxd7 Bxd7 43.Kg3 Rc8 –+ 
click for larger view34.Kh2 Kh8 35.a5 bxa5 36.bxa5 Rd8 37.Qg4 Qxg4 38.hxg4 d3 39.Rf4 d2 40.Bf3 Nxa5 41.Bc3 Nb3 42.g5 a5 –+; 
click for larger view34.Kh2 Kh8 35.Kg1 Qf8 36.b5 d3 37.Re3 d2 38.Bc3 Rd8 39.Be4 Qf4 40.Bc2 Nd4 41.Bxd2 Rf8 42.Be1 Nf3+ 43.Qxf3 Qxf3 44.Rxf3 Rxf3 45.Bb4 Rxh3 46.Kg2 Rh4 –+]> 
click for larger view34...Rc4 35.Qd3 Rxb4 36.Bxd4 Nxd4 37.Rxd4 Qxd3 38.Rxd3 Rxa4 39.Bc6 Rb4 40.Bd7 Kf7 41.Rd6 Bb3 42.Bg4 a5 43.f3 a4 44.Rd7+ Ke8 45.Ra7 Rd4 46.Kf2 g6 47.Ke3 Rd5 48.f4 Ra5 49.Rxa5 bxa5 50.Kd2 a3 51.Kc1 a2 52.Kb2 h5 53.Bf3 h4 54.Be4 
click for larger view |
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