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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 787 OF 1784 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Nov-15-07
 | | Stonehenge: Bxg7+ and draw offered. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | twinlark: Bxg7+ |
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| Nov-15-07 | | GameGod123: Let me try a line of analysis based on his last move: 18. Bxg7+!? Kxg7
19. Nd4 Qe7
20. Nxe4 Qxa3!?
21. bxa3 fxe4
22. Rdc1 Rab8!
23. Rxb8 Rxb8
24. Nxc6! Bxc6
25. Rxc6 Nb5!
26. e3! Nxa3
27. Bf1! Rb2!
28. Rc5 Nc2
29. Rxa5! d4!
30. Re5! dxe3
31. Rxe4 exf2+
32. Kxf2 Rxa2
33. Bc4 Ra8!
34. h4 h5
35. Bd3! Ra2
36. Kf1 Ra1+
37. Ke2 Re1+
38. Kf3 Rxe4
39. Bxe4! Nd4+
40. Ke3 Nf5+!
41. Bxf5 gxf5
42. Kd4 Kf6
43. Kd3 Kf7
1/2 - 1/2
This is to do with the moves the opponent makes. Should we make the moves above, a draw will be quickly confirmed. Please correct me if White or Black can play any better than I posted. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | RandomVisitor: <GameGod123>19.Rbc1 and 19.e3 are playable alternatives to 19.Nd4. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | RookFile: So, should I vote for 18. Bxg7+, or 18. Bxg7? |
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| Nov-15-07 | | classF: <GameG*d123> 18. Bxg7+ Kxg7 19.Rbc1 Qe7 20.Qxe7+ Rxe7 21.Na4 Rb8 22.e3 is better than your line which allows doubled, isolated a-pawns. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | twinlark: <Rookfile>
The first one should be fine as long as yer check don't bounce. |
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Nov-15-07
 | | chancho: 18.Bxg7+ for the pollster.
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| Nov-15-07 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <RookFile: So, should I vote for 18. Bxg7+, or 18. Bxg7?> See Chessgames Challenge Help - it is quite clear. Whoever voted Bxg7 (there are 2 such votes as I type this) should change it to Bxg7+. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | aliboy: Whats the difference between 18 Bxg7+ 18 Bxg7 don't understand? |
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| Nov-15-07 | | aliboy: Sorry smudge on my screen.Now I understand |
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Nov-15-07
 | | kwgurge: 18.Bxg7+ for the poll. Leaning toward 19.Rbc1 next. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | Hugin: I am going to run a standard game between TogaII 1.3.1 and Rybka 2.3.2a mp..starting with 18 Bd4. I can easely imgaine Timmerman has figured out the world team likes Rybka moves/variations and will easy counter whatever we votes on.. If TogaII 1.3.1 manage to beat Rybka in another game this time using 18 Bd4, that will be my vote. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | Touch of Knight: <kutztown46> The lines <19.Rbc1 Qe7 20.Qxe7+ Rxe7 21.e3> and <19.e3 Qe7 20.Qxe7+ Rxe7 21.Rbc1> transpose. Where go the posts? mckmck chessforum or User: dalbertz ? |
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| Nov-15-07 | | dalbertz: Touch of Knight: I'd say put them on mckmck chessforum and maybe make a note of the transposition on dalbertz chessforum. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | Boomie: Forum analysis - 4 19. e3, 2 19. Rbc1, 1 19. Nd4. Seems to indicate that the pundits favor 19. e3. However <RV> has 19. Nd4 as at least as good. Can someone summarize why 19. e3 is now favored? |
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Nov-15-07
 | | kutztown46: <Touch of Knight>
I agree with <dalbertz>. The perceived main line in the 19. Rbc1 Qe7 20. Qxe7+ Rxe7 variation seems to be 21. Na4 (rather than 21. e3), whereas in the 19. e3 Qe7 variation, 20. Qxe7+ Re7 21. Rbc1 seems to be the most likely continuation. So the position you describe is probably more appropriately discussed at the <mckmck> forum. Maybe the two lines converge again further out. |
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Nov-15-07
| | kwgurge: <Boomie> I'm not sure what you mean by the pundits seeming to favor 19.e3. I don't get the same conclusion from going through the forums and the main thread where a lot of the stuff on 19.Rbc1 was posted without being copied to a forum. I don't get the sense that there is any concensus on white's best choice at move 19 yet. |
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Nov-15-07
| | kutztown46: <Boomie>
I was worried that some would interpret the number of forums for each of the 19th moves as being reflective of the relative merits of each move. That was not my intent. Rather, as I reviewed what has already been posted in the various forums, there has by far been more posted on 19. e3 than the other moves put together, with 19. Rbc1 a distant second. So I was just trying to accommodate the team by providing plenty of space to spread out the 19. e3 analysis. |
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Nov-15-07
| | kwgurge: <kutztown46> I don't mean this as any criticism of the forum system, but I question whether labeling them to include only a limited number (one or two) of potential black responses might lead to other lines being overlooked and not anlayzed. For example, there are forums for 18.Bxg7+ Kxg7 19.Rbc1 <Qf7> and 18.Bxg7+ Kxg7 19.Rbc1 <Qf6>, but not for any other black 19th moves. Could this lead to people only looking at those two moves? Unless lines are forced, I'm not sure how wise it is to denominate a forum with moves beyond white's next choice without using all plausible black options. Just a thought. |
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Nov-15-07
| | kutztown46: <kwgurge>
You make a good point and I considered that, but here is my dilemma: Per my analysis, there are 6 plausible replies to 19. e3, as many as 10 plausible replies to 19. Rbc1, 3 plausible replies to 19. Nd4 and perhaps 6 plausible replies to 19. Na4. So if I want to include all plausible replies to all four of our plausible 19th moves, I would need 25 forums. We don't have that many forum hosts and I think you guys would fire me if I proposed that many forums. Another choice would be to stick with just four forums. That is reasonable but I promised someone about a week ago that I would split the 19. e3 forum once some more forum hosts were available. So I chose a middle path. I spent over an hour a few nights ago reading through all the forums to see which black 19th moves were actually talked about, and those are the ones that ended up with forums for the most part. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | g.mueller: [Event "17.Be5 Re8"]
[Site "xxx"]
[Date "2007.11.04"]
[Round "1"]
[White "g.mueller"]
[Black "GJT"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A88"]
[PlyCount "191"]
[EventDate "2007.??.??"]
1. d4 f5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 g6 4. Nf3 Bg7 5. O-O O-O 6. c4 d6 7. Nc3 c6 8. Qb3
Kh8 9. Rd1 Na6 10. Qa3 Nc7 11. d5 Bd7 12. Rb1 a5 13. dxc6 bxc6 14. c5 Ne4 15.
cxd6 exd6 16. Bf4 d5 17. Be5 Re8
18. Bxg7+ Kxg7 19. Rbc1 Qe7 20. Qxe7+ Rxe7 21. e3 a4 22. Nd4 Ra6 23. Bf1 Nxc3 24. bxc3 Ra5 25. c4 dxc4 26. Bxc4 c5 27. Nf3 Bb5
28. Kg2 Bxc4 29. Rxc4 Kf6 30. Rd6+ Re6 31. Rd7 Re7 32. Ne5 Rxe5 33. Rxc7 
click for larger view33...h6
34.Rc6+ Kf7 35. h4 h5 36. Rc2 Rb5 37. Kf3 Rd5 38. Ra6 Rb4 39. a3 Rb3 40. Rxa4 Rb6
41. Ra5 Rc6 42. a4 Ke6 43. Rc4 Kd6 44. Ra8 Kc7 45. Ke2 Rb6 46. Rc2 Rc6 47. Ra5
Kd7 48. Rc4 Ke6 49. Rb5 Ra6 50. Kf3 Kd6 51. Kf4 Rd2 52. f3 Rc6 53. a5 Rd3 54.
Ra4 Ra6 55. Rb7 Kc6 56. Rb8 Rc3 57. Ra1 c4 58. Rab1 Ra3 59. Rc8+ Kd6 60. Rc1
Ra4 61. Kg5 Ra3 62. Rd1+ Ke6 63. Rd4 R6xa5 64. Kxg6 Ke7 65. Rc7+ Ke6 66. Rc8
Ke7 67. Rc7+ Ke6 68. Rf7 Ra8 69. Rf6+ Ke7 70. Rxf5 Rg8+ 71. Kxh5 c3 72. f4 Rc8
73. Re4+ Kd6 74. Rd4+ Ke7 75. Re4+ Kd6 76. Rfe5 Rc5 77. Rd4+ Kc6 78. Rd1 Rc4
79. Re6+ Kc7 80. f5 c2 81. Re7+ Kc6 82. Rc1 Kd6 83. f6 Ra5+ 84. Kh6 Rf5 85. Kg6
Rf3 86. e4 Rxg3+ 87. Kf7 Rf3 88. h5 Rf2 89. e5+ Kd5 90. e6 Ke5 91. Re1+ Kf4 92.
Rd7 c1=Q 93. Rxc1 Rxc1 94. e7 Re1 95. e8=Q Rxe8 96. Kxe8 1-0 |
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| Nov-15-07 | | weisyschwarz: To the counter, <Karpova>, 18.Bxg7+. Thank you. |
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| Nov-15-07 | | isemeria: <imag: I think that if we play 19.Rbc1 GMT will respond 19...Qf6. We should probably work on it because the vast majority of lines concentrate on 19...Qe7> I don't know which move is better, but I agree that more work is needed on 19...Qf6. I have posted a lenghty "call for papers" at zanshin chessforum Have a look and start your engines (carbon or silicon). |
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| Nov-15-07 | | JustWoodshifting: (18. Bxg7+ Kxg7)
19. Rbc1 Qe7
20. Qxe7+ Rxe7
21. e3 Rb8
22. b3 Nb5
23. Nxb5 Rxb5
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