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| May-28-09 | | WinKing: <TiTi:I know I can recognize theory in practice more than I can come up with concrete plans based on them,...> Well in theory a queenside majority is usually a good thing. We have obtained that. Now putting a plan in play to help move this majority down the board is easier said than done. The team has managed to come out of the opening with a slight advantage but trying for more with an open position will require patience as both sides look for optimal squares for their pieces. |
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| May-28-09 | | SoltanGris: It would seem to be a one question mark blunder to play other than Rxd1+ or Rxd1. |
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| May-28-09 | | crazymate: 21. Nf3 Rxd1+ 22. Nxd1 Bc7 23. Bg5
Qxe2 24. Nc3 Qc2 25. Qxc2 Nxc2 26. Rd1 Kf8 27. Bxf6 gxf6 (crafty 20.14 sees the capture of the knight as a advantage and trades his bishop for our knight and doubles our f pawn. I dont think the CC GM will play this way but you never know.) 28. Rd2 Nb4 29. Nd4 Kg7 30. Bf1 Kg6 31. Rd1 Be5 32. Kh2 Bd7 33. Bc4 b6 34. Nf3 Be6 35.Nxe5+ fxe5 36. Bxe6 fxe6 37. Rd6 Kf5 38. Kg2 Rh8 39. b3 Re8 40. Nd1 Kf6 41. Ne3 Ke7 42. Rd2 b5 43. Kf3 Na6 44. Rc2 Kd6 45. axb5 cxb5 46. Ra2 Nc5 47. Rxa5 Nxb3
48. Ra6+ Ke7 49. g4 Rf8+ 50. Ke2 hxg4 51. Nxg4 e4 52. Ne5 Rf5 53. f4 exf3+ 54.Nxf3 Nc5 55. Rb6 Na4 56. Rb7+ Kf6 57. Nd4 Rg5 58. Kf2 Nc3 59. Rb6 Re5 60. Kf1 Re3 61. Kf2 Nd5 62. Rxb5 Rxh3 63. Ra5 Rd3 64. Nxe6 Kxe6 65. Ke2 Rh3 This was rather shocking news to me when the computer sacraficed his knight on e6.. "Go ahead tough guy mate me. I dont think you can" in this position crafty sacraficed his knight for the isoloni pawn and the evaluation dropped like a rock.. It will be challenging to win the following because Rook and Knight vs Rook is probably a draw. |
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| May-28-09 | | kb2ct: <WinKing: Has anyone looked at this line yet? > <Rxd1+ 22. Nxd1 Bc7 23. Bg5 Be6> I looked at it some. Rybka will almost certainly play Nd4 and Nxe6 as the idea of playing Nd2 and Ne4 to double the f-pawns fails. 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. g3
dxc4 6. Bg2 Nbd7 7. a4 Bb4 8. O-O O-O 9. Qc2 a5 10. Rd1 Qe7 11. Na2 Bd6 12.
Qxc4 e5 13. Qc2 exd4 14. Nxd4 Nc5 15. Nc3 Rd8 16. Rb1 Bc7 17. h3 Be5 18. Be3
Na6 19. Qc1 h5 20. Ra1 Nb4 21. Nf3 Rxd1+ 22. Nxd1 Bc7 23. Bg5 Be6 24. Nd2 Rd8
25. Ne4 Bf5 26. Ndc3 Be5 27. Nxf6+ gxf6
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.3.2a 32-bit at 21 ply
1. ³ (-0.39): 28.Bh6 Qe6 29.Bf4 Nc2 30.Rb1 Bxc3 31.bxc3 Qxe2 32.Bf1 Qe7 33.g4 hxg4 34.hxg4 Bg6 2. ³ (-0.42): 28.Bf4 Nc2 29.Rb1 Bxc3 30.bxc3 Qxe2 31.Bf1 Qe7 32.g4 hxg4 33.hxg4 Bg6 34.Rb2 Ne1 Personally I see nothing wrong with allowing the perp. :0) |
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| May-28-09 | | kb2ct: <imag: <govert> I'd play 22...Bc7 23.Bg5 Qxe2, if he wants a draw by repetition, he can have it.> I completely agree.
:0) |
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| May-28-09 | | WinKing: It pains me to think of this as being another line that leads to a perpetual
with no way for black to make progress. We will have to examine this more closely. Black has a pawn free on the queenside to no avail. Rybka 3 w32
<Rxd1+ 22. Nxd1 Bc7 23. Bg5 Be6> [+0.00] d=20 24.e4 Rd8 25.e5 Bxe5 26.Nxe5 Bb3 27.Qe3 Rxd1 28.Rxd1 Bxd1 29.Bxf6 Qxf6 30.Nc4 g6 31.Nxa5 Qxb2 32.Nxb7 Bxa4 33.Nd6 Qf6 34.Ne4 Qd8 35.Qa3 Qd1 36.Kh2 Qb3 37.Nf6 Kf8 38.Qc1 Nd3 39.Qh6 
click for larger view |
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| May-28-09 | | WinKing: <kb2ct:
<imag: <govert> I'd play 22...Bc7 23.Bg5 Qxe2, if he wants a draw by repetition, he can have it.> I completely agree.>
Looks like there might not be much choice they're everywhere. |
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| May-28-09 | | morfishine: <mcguigan97 Bd6 worsens our evaluation, at least per Rybka 3 at low ply> Thanks |
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| May-28-09 | | capafan: 19...h5 may have thwarted any white chances of a win; however, the weakness created on g5 prevents any chance black had of a obtaining a sustainable advantage. Too easy for white to penetrate black's kingside, therefore, the plethora of perps available to white in almost any of the pertinent variations. What is our most attractive and forcing method of drawing? I tend to agree with <kb2ct>, pick a line that will force GMMU to take a perpetual or suffer from another hit on the eval. As suggested, 22...Bc7 23.Bg5 Qxe2 is as good as any. |
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| May-28-09 | | capafan: Too easy for white to play as *black* in the 5.g5 version of the Semi-Slav. I would be curious, if ever given another opportunity, to know how b5 might have fared (<kwgurge>'s original suggestion) if played early by black. |
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| May-28-09 | | DPLeo: <capafan: ... What is our most attractive and forcing method of drawing? I tend to agree with <kb2ct>, pick a line that will force GMMU to take a perpetual or suffer from another hit on the eval. As suggested, 22...Bc7 23.Bg5 Qxe2 is as good as any.> Yes but it looks like 23.Bd4 is another possibility. |
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| May-28-09 | | g.mueller: Hi Ken
<kb2ct:
<WinKing: Has anyone looked at this line yet? ><Rxd1+ 22. Nxd1 Bc7 23. Bg5 Be6> I looked at it some. Rybka will almost certainly play Nd4 and Nxe6 as the idea of playing Nd2 and Ne4 to double the f-pawns fails.
>
<1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. g3 dxc4 6. Bg2 Nbd7 7. a4 Bb4 8. O-O
O-O 9. Qc2 a5 10. Rd1 Qe7 11. Na2 Bd6 12. Qxc4 e5 13. Qc2 exd4 14. Nxd4 Nc5 15.
Nc3 Rd8 16. Rb1 Bc7 17. h3 Be5 18. Be3 Na6 19. Qc1 h5 20. Ra1 Nb4 21. Nf3 Rxd1+
22. Nxd1 Bc7 23. Bg5 Be6 24. Nd2 Rd8 25. Ne4 Bf5 26. Ndc3 Be5 27. Nxf6+ gxf6
28. Bh6 Qe6 29. Bf4 Nc2 30. Rb1 Bxc3 31. bxc3 Qxe2 32. Bf1 Qe7 33. g4 hxg4 34.hxg4 Bg6> 
click for larger view
playout your example is a black win
35. Kh2 Qe4 36. Bg2 Qe2 37. f3 Rd3 38. Kg3 Be4 39. Qf1 Qxf1 40. Rxf1
Rxc3 41. Bc7 Ne3 42. Re1 Bd5 43. Bxa5 Rb3 44. Bh1 Nc4 45. Bd8 Kg7 46. Be7 Bxf3
47. Bxf3 Nd2 48. Kg2 Nxf3 49. Rf1 Re3 50. Bd8 Nd2 51. Rxf6 Rd3 52. Be7 Rd7 53.
Rd6 Rxd6 54. Bxd6 Kf6 55. Bf4 Nc4 56. Kf3 Ne5+ 57. Ke4 Nxg4 58. Bg3 Nh6 59. Kd3
Nf5 60. Bb8 Ke6 61. Kc4 b6 62. Kd3 Ne7 63. Bf4 f5 64. Bd2 Kd5 65. Be3 Nc8 66.
Bd2 c5 67. Ke3 Kc4 68. Kf4 Kd3 69. Bc1 Ne7 70. Ba3 Nc6 71. Kxf5 Nd4+ 72. Ke5 c4
73. Bc1 c3 74. Kd5 c2 75. Kd6 Kc3 76. Bf4 Nb3 77. Be5+ Kc4 78. Bb2 Nc5 79. Bc1
Nxa4 -#M14 |
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May-28-09
 | | kingscrusher: TiTi: I'm flattered by your comments. I've enjoyed doing the live commentary blitz videos so far on http://www.youtube.com/kingscrusher If it is of any use potentially to the team, here is my positional analysis of this position: 1. The g5 square is a little controversial. It seems White can use this torture black I expect in many variations. On the other hand, the pawn on h5 restrains g4 from White, and provides a potential threat of h4 if the Knight on f3 moves. This might weaken White's kingside. 2. Black has a 3-2 pawn majority on the Queenside, but it seems Umansky has this under control by playing a4 and the bishop on g2 means it is unlikely that black can successfully arrange a passed pawn anytime soon. For this to happen, stuff like b5, b4 has to happen much later. Or if b5 axb5 then a passed outside a pawn much later on in the game. 3. Whites pawn majority on the K-side is also under control and restraint, with black seemingly having a lot of piece pressure. It is nice that the traditionally problem queens bishop is fine looking here and active. There are no major structural weaknesses in blacks position, except the g5 square it seems. 4. In terms of rook connectivity, it seems Black is a little better here. I can imagine the rooks potentially doubling on the d file easier than White can arrange. I think this is to do with Black's seemingly more active pieces. I like the Knight on b4 intuitively, and maybe White's weaknesses also like on the queenside - especially for example the b3 and c4 squares which the bishop on g2 would have difficulty influencing. 5. In terms of Knight outposts, g5 looks good potentially for White in the future. b4 is nice of course for black and it is already being used. I can't see any other major weaknesses in White's position for a nice knight outpost. 6. In terms of concern for pawn intertia, I would be concerned about White's pawn center having potential to dominate the center. This needs to be kept under control. At the moment both the f2 and e2 pawns are blocked by pieces. But if they were liberated later, they would give White increased central control. 7. In terms of potentially nifty rook manovers, I have noted Ra6-b6 might be useful to black one day, if the bishop leaves e3, so that the b2 pawn could be targetted. Overall it seems a very difficult, intense and rich position, with a lot of tension still left. Good luck team, may the force be with you, as well as the engine analysis! |
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| May-28-09 | | DanLanglois: <kingscrusher: In terms of rook connectivity, it seems Black is a little better here. I can imagine the rooks potentially doubling on the d file easier than White can arrange. > Ah, but one of the rooks just got exchanged off.. |
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| May-28-09 | | kb2ct: To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a chess book on grandmaster draws. If it happens, I think the perp after Bg5, Qxe2 would qualify for inclusion in such a book. Even if it doesn't happen, it would be great material in the post-mortem. :0) |
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| May-28-09 | | DPLeo: Sliding along the 21... Rxd1+ 22. Nxd1 Bc7 23. Bg5 Qxe2 24. Bxf6 gxf6 25. Qh6 Nd5 line at 28 ply per move. <Depth=28/28>
1. = (-0.14): 21...Rxd1+ 22.Nxd1 Bc7 23.Bd4 Ne4 24.Ne3 Bd7 25.Nh4 g6 I stopped at 27 ply here because Nxd1 looks forced.
<Depth=27/27>
1. = (-0.18): 22.Nxd1 Bc7 23.Bd4 Ne4 24.Ne3 Bd7 25.Nh4 g6 26.Bxe4 Qxe4 <Depth=28/63>
1. = (-0.15): 22...Bc7 23.Bd4 Nfd5 24.Nc3 Bf5 25.Nh4 Be6 26.Nxd5 Nxd5 <Depth=28/28>
1. = (-0.20): 23.Bd4 Ne4 24.Nc3 Bf5 25.Nxe4 Bxe4 26.Bc5 Qd7 27.Qc4 Qd5 2.  (-0.27): 23.Bg5 Qxe2 24.Bxf6 gxf6 25.Nc3 Qc2 26.Qh6 Qg6 27.Qe3 Be6 It's close but after sliding, Shredder thinks 23.Bd4 is better for white. If there's anything better for black it's going to take a deeper ply slide to find it. |
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| May-28-09 | | ajile: <capafan: Too easy for white to play as *black* in the 5.g5 version of the Semi-Slav. I would be curious, if ever given another opportunity, to know how b5 might have fared (<kwgurge>'s original suggestion) if played early by black.> I also lobbied hard for 6..b5. |
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| May-28-09 | | DanLanglois: <capafan: As suggested, 22...Bc7 23.Bg5 Qxe2 is as good as any.>> Black doesn't have to play 23...Qxe2, there is for example simply 23...Bd7. |
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| May-28-09 | | WinKing: <DanLanglois: Black doesn't have to play 23...Qxe2, there is for example simply 23...Bd7.> Yeah either 23...Bd7 or 23...Bf5 look ok for black. I was just looking them both over. I did advise <RV> to look over 23.Bg5!? in the ...Bc7 lines though. He really should do a deep run on that move. |
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| May-28-09 | | WinKing: I've still got a run going on 23...Bd6 trying to get a deeper ply ct. working on 23 now |
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| May-28-09 | | capafan: <Dan>I have no doubt there are multiple ways for both white and black to extend play at -.1 to 0.0 to +.1 should they decide to do so waiting for one side or the other to make a mistake until one side forces the other to take a perpetual or worsen their position. <Black doesn't have to play 23...Qxe2, there is for example simply 23...Bd7.> Why would we play an inferior move to extend play without a hard and fast method for winning? I understand not wanting a draw, but at some point we have to ask ourselves does white have anything we do not give him? Play the best move and let happen what may... |
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| May-28-09 | | DanLanglois: <capafan>, who says 23...Bd7 is an inferior move? 23...Qxe2 initiates some tactical fireworks, and is -0.86 at 14 ply, that doesn't necessarily make it the best move. Here's an interesting tactic BTW that could happen w/23...Bd7: 21...Rxd1+ 22. Nxd1 Bc7 23. Bg5 Bd7 24. Ne3 Re8 25. Bh4 Bc8 26. Nd2 Qf8 27. Bxf6 gxf6 28. Qc3 Be5 29. Qa3 Bd4 
click for larger viewvery subtly, Black is in position to win a piece:
30. Ne4 f5 31. Rd1 Qg7 32. Nxf5 Bxf5
click for larger viewok so that's perhaps not 'very' subtle. But White does need better. Perhaps 24. Nc3 Bf5 25. Nd4 Bg6 26. Qf1 Qc5
click for larger viewstill quite decent 4 Black |
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| May-29-09 | | Dmaster995: After 21... Rxd1+ 22. Nxd1 Bc7 23. Bg5 <Be6>, Rybka 3 gives +0.00 at 18 ply. |
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| May-29-09 | | Dmaster995: Rybka 3 18-ply: After 21...Rxd1 22.Nxd1 Bc7 23.Bg5 <Be6>
click for larger view
[+0.00] d=18 24.e4 Ba2 25.Nc3 Bc4 26.Bf1 Bxf1 27.Qxf1 Qe6 28.Nd4 Qe5 29.Nf3 Qe6 30.Nd4 Qe5 31.Nf3 Qe6 32.Nd4 Qe5 33.Nf3 Qe6 34.Nd4 Qe5 35.Nf3 Qe6 36.Nd4 Qe5 37.Nf3 Qe6 38.Nd4 Qe5 39.Nf3 (2:53.08) [-0.21] d=18 24.Nd4 Rd8 25.Nxe6 Qxe6 26.Nc3 Rd7 27.Rb1 Be5 28.Qe3 Nbd5 29.Nxd5 Nxd5 30.Qa7 Qg6 31.e4 Nf6 32.Qe3 Rd4 (3:21.45) [-0.28] d=18 24.Nc3 Rd8 25.Nd2 Bf5 26.Nde4 Be5 27.Nxf6 gxf6 28.Bf4 Bg6 29.h4 Nc2 30.Rb1 Nd4 31.e4 Nb3 32.Qc2 Bxf4 (3:58.24) [-0.28] d=18 24.Nd2 Rd8 25.Nc3 Bf5 26.Nde4 Be5 27.Nxf6 gxf6 28.Bf4 Bg6 29.h4 Nc2 30.Rb1 Nd4 31.e4 Nb3 32.Qc2 Bxf4 (4:28.34) |
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May-29-09
 | | Tabanus: What happens if 21...Rxd1+ 22.Nxd1 Bc7 23.Bg5 <Bb6> ? |
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