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| Oct-20-05 | | ARTIN: Confusing the government of Israel with Jews is not correct. Turkey is the only muslim country in the world which doesn't want Israel to disappear from the face of the Earth (or at least not yet!). Every Jew knows that the Armenian genocide happened and most of them agree it's the same thing that happened to us in the Holocaust. We are literate people and do read our writers (like Werfel, who warned the world that what happened to Armenians will happen to us when he wrote Forty days of the Musa Dagh in 1930s). The same can be said about Turkey. The government denies the genocide, but the intellectuals are couragous enough to voice their view despite death threats etc. And the same thing can be said about Azerbaijan. It tells people like Jafar219 that Erevan is Azerbaijani territory, but I am sure the intellectuals in Azerbaijan know enough of their history to know that even Karabakh is not Azerbaijani. |
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| Oct-20-05 | | ahmadov: <It tells people like Jafar219 that Erevan is Azerbaijani territory, but I am sure the intellectuals in Azerbaijan know enough of their history to know that even Karabakh is not Azerbaijani> :))))))))))))))) lol.
This can claim to be the joke of the month on this website. |
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| Oct-20-05 | | Jafar219: <ARTIN> you jews think that you are the cleverest in the world? Absurd.
You are trying to be objective but you are wrong.You are not well informed about Azerbaijan-Hayastan conflict.You just don`t know history.I advice you to learn history of Azerbaijan and Armenia.You will be surprised because of truth. |
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| Oct-20-05 | | ahmadov: <Jafar219:> sen bu saytda bu alcaqlarla mubarize apara-apara ingilis dilini inkisaf eletdirmisen. tebrikler!!!
P.S. Bu yahudi sohbetini cox sisirtme, men inanmiram ki, bu gede yahudidi, cox guman ki, ermenidi. Burada yahudilere qarsi danissaq, onda gerek iki cebhede doyusek. Biz mumkun qeder hamini oz terefimize cekmeliyik. |
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| Oct-20-05 | | ARMENIA: Armenia is a free country! It has a very long history and is one of the oldest nation's on earth. It is the first Christian nation on earth. It has the fourth oldest capital on earth that is still a campital.Armenia is country full of rocks and mountains. My people have suffered throughout their history against many like Arabs, Turks, Seljuks, Tajiks, Persians, Romans and so on. We have survived due to our commintment to our religion and our love for the land. We have been depressed for centures but we were able to stay together and fight for the right to be free. We have seen the worst but nothing can compair to the massacares by the Turks in the late 19th and early 20th century. Hitler himself took precious lessons from the Turks and the way they "took care" of the business. We have been denied for almost a century. We will never give up until justice is served on earth, until people understand that History can and will repeat if actions aren't taken. We can see why Germany doesn't have nuclear weapons and has a limited army. Same should be done against a nation like Turkey. Most Turks know deep inside what happened to the Armenians and the can't speak up. Look at the Turkish writers who actually spoke out were put in jail for telling the history. Recognizing the Genoicide isn't just an apology. It is a lifelong curse of knowing that over a million and a half people were slaughtered because they were the same as Jews in Germany. Armenians had taken over everything in the Ottaman Empire and the Sultans didn't really like a Christian race to rule the Muslim world. We were the most educated, most talanted and most creative people of the Ottoman Empire. We were a big treat and we wanted our freedom. We aren't going to fight with arms any more... We have patience and know and believe in Jesus. We love him and trust him with our hearts. We know that very soon the world would speak and feel shameful for not realizing what they have ignored. We will not just take the apology but we will cut the territory of Turkey in half. The part that makes Turkey rich besides Istambul is the historical Armenia. IT was taken from us by force and by the name of God will be given back |
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| Oct-21-05 | | ahmadov: <Armenia is a free country!> It is lie. Armenia is a protectorate of Russia. Unlike Azerbaijan and Georgia, which are truly free countries, Armenian borders are being protected by the Russian army. Russia has privatised the major enterprises of Armenia. The so-called president of Armenia acts only under instructions given by the Russian leadership. Nobody, except youselves, believes that Armenia is the first country to officially accept Christianity. This is nonesense. Your strength is that you can tell lies and organize different kinds of events to publicize these lies. In fact, the world does not give a shoot to your lies. <We were the most educated, most talanted and most creative people of the Ottoman Empire.> :))) lol. After reading this, I had an impression that the Ottoman empire was an Armenian state :))))) |
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| Oct-21-05 | | roni.chessman: i have one thing to say:
Radjabov for world champion!!!! |
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| Oct-21-05 | | rochade18: In April or May 2005 Germany apologized for its bad treatment of the armenians in World War I. It was not easy since Germany "confesses" that it is involved in two genocides, in both cases in a negative way. But it was the right decision to do so. When comparing the statements of Azeris/Turks vs Armenians, it comes clear that both sides are very nationalist. But you get the impression that Armenians are forced to be nationalists in order to survive, while Turkey is a traditionally nationalist country. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | ahmadov: <rochade18:> About 50,000 Armenians have migrated to Turkey to earn their living. So, you can say that Turkey feeds about 200,000 people in Armenia with money remitted to this country. Yet, Armenians are ungreatful by accusing Turkey of nationalism. As for apologising, I think it is Armenia which should apologize to Azerbaijan for atrocities purpetrated in Khodjaly in 1992, for the plight of about 1 million Azeri internally displaced persons and for occupying and holding 20 per cent of Azeri lands for the last 13 years. I think these are facts you should take into account. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | euripides: There are two things I find worrying about this debate. First, neither side seems interested in the wishes of the people in the affected territory. The defenders of the Armenian position don't seem interested in their own best argument. Secondly, some young men here are talking of war with a disturbing though historically familiar levity. Well-wishers of either side should hope that prediction is wrong. Some solutions other than retaining Azeri sovereignty have been proposed including a land swap. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | rochade18: Do Armenians really go to Turkey when leaving Armenia? I can hardly imagine that Armenians would be let in! I thought they like emigrate to Russia, Western Europe and the USA! Sure, Armenians have to apologize for occupying lands which are populated by Azeris, but on the other hand I don't see why Azerbaidjan should kling to a region populated by Armenians. Is there oil or something? Probably not. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | amateur05: Patriotism is the desire to serve your nation and your land. It is a particular case of the human desire to serve the others. Nationalism is a false and insincere category. On the surface, the nationalist is a flag-waver. In reality, he is extremely intolerant to those who have a different language. How can you love those who move their tongues in one way and hate those who move their tongues in a different way? I wouldn't trust such a person and I wouldn't like to be on the same side with him. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | ahmadov: <rochade18:Do Armenians really go to Turkey when leaving Armenia? I can hardly imagine that Armenians would be let in!> You seem to be disinformed about Turkey. This does not suprise me much. Travel this country and you will find that Turkey is not the country described by Armenians or others who want to discreit this country. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | ARTIN: No one needs to discredit Turkey. Its history does a pretty good job of it on its own. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | ARTIN: Just like couple of people here. No one needs to degrade them. They can do a pretty good job of that themselves when they talk about "history". |
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| Oct-21-05 | | ARTIN: rochade18,
I didn't know that Germany did that. I am quite impressed that a country which was only indirectly responsible for a genocide apologized for it when the one that actually carried it out denies it. Of course, you can't really compare a country that produced some of the greatest minds with Turkey. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | rochade18: Most nations of the world tend to deny mistakes they have made in the past. No country in the world has a clean, white history. Germany would have never been "denazified", it would deny the holocoast even today if it was not under total rule of the Allies between 1945-1949. Germany was forced to learn the bitter truth, which was necessary for a safe and sound democracy. Turkey more or less prevented an occupation. It defended the borders proudly and comes out as a winner after so many years of struggle and war. The price was high: Turkey missed the chance to clean its history by ignoring some "little incidents" |
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| Oct-21-05 | | ARTIN: You're right, in the long term you definitely lose more if you deny your own history, because history shapes your identity and self-awareness in the present, which are very important for a nation's development. I am not sure though that Germany would deny the holocaust if it had a choice. I think there would too many German intellectuals who would voice their opinions about it, and since Germany has a free press, the people would listen and demand a recognition. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | rochade18: <ARTIN> Both big parties in the German Bundestag never said a word about the genocide: the CDU didn't want to see Germany involved in another genocide, and the social democrats didn't want to "attack" the big turkish community. Then the CDU changed its mind - maybe they wanted to create a problem for Turkey (actually it needn't be a problem for Turkey to accept the genocide - EU would give applause and standing ovations) and the social democrats supported the idea! After 90 years the Bundestag took a part of the responsibility of the genocide. Germany didn't want to insult Turkey by doing that, and remained the most important turkish friend in the EU. But the Turks did not understand Germany's good will, and the Turkish embassador complained about the German initiative in a very ugly and ridiculous way. |
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| Oct-21-05 | | SnoopDogg: <which I would like to correct you, in Turkish not in Azeri means Black Garden.> My Azeri is not great but I could have swore in Azeri, "Qarabagh" means "qara"-"black" and "bagh" means "garden", so basically we get 'Black Garden'." I would be surprised if the Englishized (correct word?) version "Nagorno Karabagh" would be translated to High, Black Garden as well in Turkish. <If you are a Jew (which I seriously doubt because most Jews hate Armenian attempts to exaggerate the killings in 1915 in order to equalise it with the Holocaust)> This is just absurd. Armenians do not exaggerate one of the most horrific genocides at the hands of Turkey to make it equal to the holocaust. Ever heard of Father Armeni? This is just a side note (and probably shouldn't be in this post) that <iron maiden> probably knows the Armenian band, System of a Down, references in their songs about the Genocide of Armenia such as the 'Father, Father...' part in "Chop Suey!" and the entire song of "P.L.U.C.K." is dedicated to it. They even stage rallies about trying to recognize it in the US I heard, while donating 10,000 dollars and counting to an organization dedicated to just getting this genocide recognized. If just 4 Armenian-Americans donate 10,000 dollars of their money in the US to get it recognized, how badly do you think other Armenians want this recognized and not <Armenian attempts to exaggerate the killings in 1915 in order to equalise it with the Holocaust>. |
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| Oct-22-05 | | ahmadov: The Armenians claim that 1.5 million were killed and 2 million were deported. The archives of the time prove that only about 1 million Armenians lived in Ottoman Turkey by that time. Independent sources give figures between 600,000-800,000 people, but this was not killings for race but deaths in a war, in which tens of thosands of Turks were killed.
The reason why this should not be regarded as genocide because it was not ethnic cleansing but a war. The reason why the Armenians raise such hullabaloo because they have backdoor intention of extracting 50bn dollars from Turkey and claiming some parts of Anatolia. The Armenians depicted part of the territory of Turkey (Agridag) in their coat of arms, which is a further proof of my statement. But as far as I know, Turkey is not going to pay a penny for the Armenians' fake claims.
<ARTIN:> After reading some of your posts I have made it clear for myself that you are a chauvinist. I do not want to offend you, but it is what I believe. |
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| Oct-22-05 | | rochade18: Let's stop this discussion right now, it will bring us no further. Turkey won't keep that view of events for ever. Did you know that Turkey wiped out Kurdish Identity for almost 70 years? 10 Million Kurds were ignored, neglected, punished because of kurdish origin. We call THAT chauvinism. And it is undeniable. ARTIN is anything, but not a chauvinist. Defenitely not. And you aren't chauvinist either, just a bit in rage I think. And now let us please come back to chess. |
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| Oct-22-05 | | ARTIN: Ahmadov, I only care what open-minded people think of me. Agridag? common, call it by it's biblical name: ARARAT which by the way is a powerful film |
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| Oct-23-05 | | 12929011: Why does open-mindedness have such a good connotation? Being too open minded is just as bad as being too close minded. |
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| Oct-23-05 | | shr0pshire: <chessgames.com> just on a technicality, but Hikaru was given the point that Bu Xiangzhi withdrew from for personal reasons. So technically Nakamura got a 5.5/9 and scored in second place. |
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