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| Feb-14-04 | | Catfriend: Alehkin writes that this game contains the longest combination he ever counted. |
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| Feb-14-04 | | drukenknight: what strikes me is the exquisite pawn play, which is a hallmark of Alek. and really sets him apart. 17 Bb3 creates doubled/iso. pawns. 23...d5 will create a passed pawn, maybe 24 e5 in order to answer it with another pawn advance? |
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| Feb-16-04 | | Catfriend: What if 24.e5 f:e5 25.♕:e5 ♗:h4? is it safe? |
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| Sep-15-04 | | Sergey Sorokhtin: Treybal played 40.Qb3+? and resigned after 40...Kg6! Kasparov writes: "By 40.g6+!! Treybal could have regained the rook, since in the event of 40...hxg6 (40...Kg8? 41.gxh7+) White forces a draw by perpetual check: 41.Qb3+ Kf6...42.Qf3+ Ke7 43.Qa3+ Ke8 44.Qa4+! Kd8 45.Qa8+ etc.".
But in the above line Sergey Sorokhtin spotted 45...Qc8! and Black can escape easily from the checks and wins |
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Jan-28-06
 | | Gypsy: Asociated with this game seems to be a bit of a hash of analysis. Kotov (Shahmatnye nasledie A.A. Alekhina) writes about this about the game: 33...Qd7+! <"With the help of the longest combination of his chess career, Black forces a a winning pawn endgame." (Alekhine) The main variation has almost 20 moves!> 40.Qb3+? <This loses wiout fight. The main combination is based on on 40.g6+! After that Black can not retreat king to g8 for 41.gxh7+, nor play 40...hxg6 for a perpetual by queen from b3, f3, a3, a8.> [Something seems already off here.] <Alekhine showed the following winning variation: 40...Kxg6! 41.Qxf8 Qxb2 42.Kh3!... In chess literature is alsoi the move 42.Kf3, recommended passibly even by Alekhine himself. But this move immediately loses to 42...Qf6+ 43.Qxf6+ gxf6! (probably Alekhine thought of of the draw after 43...Kxf6 44.Kf4), and Black easily wins the pawn endgame. After the better 42.Kh3, Black wins thanks to an approach of the queen: 42...Qc3+ 43.Kg2 Qd2+ 44.Kg3 Qe3+ 25.Kg2 Qe4+ 46.Kg3 Qe5+ 47.Kg2 Kh5! 48.Qf3+ Kxh4 49.Qh3+ Kg5 50.Qxh7 Qe2+ 51.Kg3 Qg4+ ... and on any retreat of the king, Black exchanges queens.> --
I. First, in the position
click for larger viewthere is no way to create perpetual using only the given squares: 41.Qb3+ Kf6 42.Qf3+ Ke7 43.Qa3+ Ke8 44.Qa8+ Kf7 ... and now what? 45.Qf3+ Kg8 46.Qb3+ Kh7 clearly goes nowhere and, it seems, 45.Qa2+ Kf6 also allows the Black king to eventually escape. I supect this is what Kasparov wanted to fix when he suggested 44.Qa4+ Kd8 45.Qa8+..., but, as noted by <Sergey Sorokhtin> above, this allow 45...Qc8 and black king eventually escapes the checks again and wins. --
II. Second, the crux position of Alekhine's main variation is 
click for larger view(Some routes to it are shorter, e.g., 42.Kg3 Qe5+ 43.Kg2 Kh5 ...) But what if White now plays 48.Qb4, instead of the Alekhine/Kotov suggested <48.Qf3+>!? How is Black going to break White fortress? I have not found a way to force Black progress. White king always manages to hold off the Black qeeen from the key squares f3,g4,h4 and I have not found a different door in. --
Can someone please run a silicone analysis on these two positions? If the silicones uphold these analyses, we will have a rare situation where Alekhine had a win in the variation which he believed to be drawn, and draw in the variation he believed to be won. |
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| Jan-29-06 | | Calli: <Gypsy> Will take a look at it later. I think you may have something, but want to get some sleep :-). The big Skinner & Verhoeven book gives only 37 moves, ending on 37...Qxc1. They cite the tournament book (Bad Pistyan 1922 p.72-73) and Alekhine's Best Games (p168-171). However, in my copy of Best games, Alekhine gives until move 40 on p.171 It looks like a mistake by Skinner. I find it unlikely that Treybal would resign at that point. Perhaps the Tournament book erred, but then how did they miss the ending in Best Games? Strange! |
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| Jan-29-06 | | WMD: <I find it unlikely that Treybal would resign at that point.> Maybe he needed a pistyan bad. |
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| Aug-03-07 | | sanyas: I think White's position is perfectly alright after 23.♗f4. |
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| Aug-01-13 | | joupajou: <Gypsy>, <Calli> Here's Rybka's analysis.
click for larger viewDeep Rybka 4.1 w32 -6.49 (depth 20) 41.Qb3+ Kf6 42.Qf3+ Ke7 43.Qa3+ Ke8 44.Qa8+ Kf7 45.Qd5+ Ke7 46.Qe5+ Kd7 47.Qxg7+ Ke8 48.Qxg6+ Rf7 49.Qe6+ Kf8 50.Qd6+ Kg8 51.Qd8+ Kg7 52.Qd4+ Rf6 53.Kh3 Qh1+ 54.Kg3 Qf3+ 55.Kh2 Qf2+ 56.Qxf2 Rxf2+ 
click for larger viewHopeless for white. |
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Aug-01-13
 | | offramp: Quite a good pun. I've been watching the remastered Star Trek. The Ay Hort looked superb. |
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Aug-01-13
| | Gypsy: Thx <joupajou>!
So -- to the extent we can believe enumerating powers of Rybka -- Alekhine indeed had a win in the <40.g6+(!) hxg6! 41.Qb3+...> variation; even though he claimed that to lead to a draw by perpetual. ---
The second part of the question is still standing: Did AAA have a win in the variation he gave as winning -- <40.g6 Kxg6 41.Qxf8...> ? |
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| Aug-01-13 | | Robespierre: "offramp" has indeed subtly indicated the source of this particular pun, namely, from the Star Trek episode, "The Trouble with Tribbles." I expect very few Chessgames.com frequenters under the age of 50 will recognize this obscure connection. |
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| Aug-01-13 | | newzild: <Robespierre> I got the reference, and I'm a 44-year-old New Zealander. |
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| Aug-01-13 | | himadri: what about the trouble with harry ? |
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| Aug-01-13 | | kevin86: The trouble with Treybal is that he's no darn good.
puuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. |
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| Aug-01-13 | | kevin86: actually,he was-just not in this game.
puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrr
(the sound of a tribble). |
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| Aug-01-13 | | Abdel Irada: <Can someone please run a silicone analysis on these two positions?> You may want to direct this question to Pamela Anderson. ∞ |
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| Aug-01-13 | | Robespierre: <newzild> You get full marks for your antiquarian (or, at least, 1960s) TV knowledge! |
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| Aug-01-13 | | JureIvanusic: Why not simple 33.... dxc1Q ? |
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| Aug-01-13 | | Abdel Irada: <Robespierre: "offramp" has indeed subtly indicated the source of this particular pun, namely, from the Star Trek episode, "The Trouble with Tribbles." I expect very few Chessgames.com frequenters under the age of 50 will recognize this obscure connection.> One word: <Re-runs>. :-D |
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Aug-01-13
 | | Benzol: Star Trek DS9 in season five had the episode "Trials And Tribble-ations" with footage from the original series episode. How old do you have to be to remember that? :) |
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Aug-02-13
| | Benzol: Great to see Chief O'Brien lying to Captain Kirk about who started the bar brawl. :) |
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| Aug-02-13 | | Abdel Irada: <Benzol: Great to see Chief O'Brien lying to Captain Kirk about who started the bar brawl. :)>
"But, Jim, did you hear what he *said*? He said the _Enterprise_ was a scow, and *then* he said he was wrong, and it should be hauled away *as* garbage. "A mon can only take so much."
∞ |
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| Aug-02-13 | | joupajou: <Gypsy> Not at all, my pleasure! Alekhine is one of my heroes, it's always a treat to dig deeper into his games. |
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| Aug-02-13 | | Abdel Irada: It's astounding how much of that (pre-)brawl scene in "The Trouble With Tribbles" has stayed in my head since I watched it in about 1974/5. The scene: A bar in a space station, where _Enterprise_ crew members are drinking alongside the crew of a Klingon vessel also docked at the station. One of the Klingons (I believe it was their captain) starts insulting Captain Kirk, culminating with perhaps the most memorable line in the entire _Star Trek_ canon by calling him <a swaggering, tin-plated dictator with delusions of Godhood>. (Actors who've worked with William Shatner break into guffaws at this point.) Ensign Chekhov becomes irate and wants to fight the Klingon ("Did you hear what he called the Keptin?"), but the older and wiser Scotty counsels patience: "We cahn take a *few* insults, laddie." Then the Klingon makes the "scow" crack about the _Enterprise_ itself (including Scotty's "puir bairns," the engines), and the outcome is predictable. (Especially for those who've read my last post.) ;-)
∞ |
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