| Apr-22-07 | | outplayer: Zugzwang! |
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| Apr-22-07 | | KokeFischer: This is not Zugzwang!
Black will run out of useful moves, white will have many options. |
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| Apr-22-07 | | russep: I was thinking that when black runs out of pawn moves he will have to move the rook and will the lose the b6 pawn |
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| Apr-22-07 | | outplayer: KokeFischer, you managed to correctly define what zugzwang is. |
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| Apr-22-07 | | nfazli: <outplayer>I agree.. |
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Apr-23-07
 | | tamar: <KokeFischer> is making the point that White has a winning position regardless of whose move it is, so it is not a zugzwang. From Oxford Companion to Chess
"zugzwang, a a german word, now anglicized, for a position whoever has the move would obtain a worse result than if were the opponent's move..." |
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Apr-23-07
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: Actually, there are several different definitions for the word "zugzwang". Some people say that it's only real zugzwang if the person loses at least half-point because it's his turn, and use the word "squeeze" for cases where the turn doesn't matter since the obligation to move sooner or later decides the game anyway. Other people say that the so-called squeeze is also a zugzwang since the eventual loss would not take place were it not for the obligation to move - which seems at least equally right since zugzwang <means> obligation to move which, after all, decides the game in such a position. (In other words, they debate if zugzwang means <"I wouldn't lose (or merely draw) if it was the other guy's turn"> or <"I wouldn't lose if I didn't have to move">. Since the second option is what the German word literally means, I prefer that one, but both are acceptable. Some other definitions of zugzwang also occur, mainly as a result of linguistic differences.) So it's a bit weird to say that someone has "correctly defined" it. One thing, though, can be agreed to by all sides - whatever definition of zugzwang you prefer, this game definitely doesn't end with one... |
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Apr-23-07
 | | alexmagnus: <tamar> what you defined is called "mutual zugzwang".
Zugzwang comes from German "Zug"="move"+"Zwang"="compulsory". I.e., a player is obliged to move but iit would be better if he could give the turn to the opponent. The opponent must not be in the same situation. |
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| Apr-23-07 | | outplayer: If it is not the other guys turn so I have to move unless it is mate or stalemate. I think both meanings are equal. I have thought this game ends in a zugzwang because whatever Black play he loses. Now I see that White is winning if it his move too. |
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| Apr-23-07 | | realbrob: Concretely, the only thing Black can do without losing material is move his king to d8 or e8, which is pretty unuseful, while White has a lot of time to bring his own king into the game and create a passed pawn on the kingside. The worst thing for Black is the paralysis of the rook, which really can't move. That wouldn't just mean losing a pawn, but also allowing White to have a passed pawn on the 6th rank!
Impressive game by Magnus Carlsen.. |
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| Apr-23-07 | | outplayer: If black plays 32...Ke8 or Kd8 then simply 33.bxa6. |
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| Apr-27-07 | | newton296: very well played strategic game where carlson's only advantage was rooks being more cordinated than blacks, allowing the win of blacks poor d pawn and the game eventually. CAn someone tell me when 15 yr olds started playing so well strategically. this game looks like the kinda of positional masterpiece kramnik would uncork on someone. Amazing for just a kid, |
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| Apr-27-07 | | s4life: <newton296: this game looks like the kinda of positional masterpiece kramnik would uncork on someone. Amazing for just a kid,> Well, Moscaw isn't exactly a super GM, but I sorta agree, he saw the final position few moves ahead of his opponent. |
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