Jul-11-10
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: I don't know quite what to think of Mr. Yates' efforts, or this game in general. First he thinks of a sparkling move that puts *four* of Black's pieces en prise simultaneously (32.Bb5!), but then he spends forever and a day converting a huge material edge into the win. Or perhaps Samisch created a perfect fortress and then pulled it down with his own errors? |
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Jul-11-10 | | tentsewang: I wonder Mr. Englishman meant 33.Bb5!!, because the queen has only one escape square to f8 and then RxR, RxR, and BxR wins for white. Stay away from pins my friend! |
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Jul-11-10
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: <tentsewang>, you are correct, of course. That's what age will do to you; take my advice and stay forever young. Don't grow old as I unwisely have. |
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Jul-11-10 | | ounos: Samisch surely hated himself after 98. ...Rg6??? (waiting on the fortress all this time, for THIS?). Did he commit suicide or something? Or he started some other hobby perhaps |
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Jul-11-10 | | Once: A fascinating ending, which begs lots of questions. Can black construct a fortress and stay safe forever? Why 98...Rg6? Was there anything better? Here's the position just before 98...Rg6:
 click for larger viewWhite's last move was 98. Kc5. This unpins the bishop and intends Kd4. When the white king arrives on d4, he protects e5 and the bishop is free to move. Then white has a sneaky threat. If allowed he plays Qf8, Be7 and Bf6 threatening mate on g7. It doesn't matter if black plays gxf6, as white would just recapture with a pawn and the mate threat stays in place. That possibly explains why black plays 99...Rg6. He needs to protect g7 before white locks him out with Bf6. Fritzie doesn't find a magical escape for black. He reckons that the best choice is 98...Bf5 (+6.10), intending Bg6, Bh5 and Rg6 (anyway). 98...Rg6 is not far behind with (+6.57) followed by 98...Kg6 (+6.87), 98...Bg6 (+7.07) and 98...Bd3 (+7.5). And then we are into the dross. So can we answer our questions? I think so. It seems that however black plays he loses pawns and the fortress crumbles. 98...Rg6 may not be the best move in the position, but it is not far from it, and it takes 21st century software to spot anything better. When I first played through the game (quickly) it looked as if white won by having more stamina and out-sitting Samisch until he made a mistake through tiredness. But a deeper look shows that both players had seen quite a bit deeper into the position. A magnificent struggle, and a lesson to all of us not to jump to conclusions about what may first seem to be an error. |
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Jul-11-10 | | Jamboree: It seems like Black first of all could have set up a much better fortress way back on move 41 with 41. ... Rc2! He has nothing to fear from 42. Qf8+ Kh7, since white can't attack further. Any other move from white and black goes 42. ... Ra2. The point is that there's much more room for the rook to shuttle around on on the second rank, as white can't cover all the squares. The fortress works like this: If white takes the "a" pawn, then checks black on the back rank, black just moves his king to h7 and leaves it there. While white's queen remains on the 8th rank, all the second rank squares are uncovered for black's rook to move back and forth freely. If, however, white moves his queen off the 8th rank, then black re-plants his rook on a2 and the moves his king back to g8, and shuttles to h8 and basically tells white --- whaddya gonna do? If white pushes the g pawn, black always plays fxg4. If white then recaptures and eventually pushes g5, black always plays hxg5. If white tries to prevent that by moving his queen to the newly-opened h-file while black's king is on h1, black then moves back to g1 whenever white's queen occupies the h-file, preventing any pin. (The key is for black to NEVER move his bishop, because doing so would eventually allow e6!, opening the black-square a1-h8 diagonal for white's bishop, possibly allowing tactical shots.) So, after all this, it seems there is only one conceivable plan for white to break through. Imagine from the position on move 41 all these pawns off the board : a6 f5 g3 h3 h6 -- all gone. The only plan for white is to get the queen on the g-file, the black king on g1, and the white bishop then moving from e7 to f6, finally setting up a mating net. But can't black always avoid that because once the pawns are all gone, his rook is a free agent and he should be able to get it to c3-h3-h6, and then shuttle back and forth from h6 to g6, preventing any mating attempts on g7? Perhaps there is a fissure in this fortress somewhere, but I don't see it. Someone of Samisch's skill level should have seen this pretty easily. |
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Jul-11-10 | | lost in space: I had the same impression as <Qnce>: Why not simply playing 98. Bg6 (or Bf5) instead of 98...Rg6? The reason is - as already pointed out by <Once> - the weak point g7: 98...Bg6 99. Qf8 Bh5 100. Kd4 Bg6 101. Be7 Bh5 102. Bf6 and Black is lost  click for larger viewOf course Black can play 101. Rxe7 but this is lost anyway. |
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Jul-11-10 | | SpiritedReposte: Whats with 42. ...Rc4? just offing the a-pawn. Surely theres an impregnable fortress here. |
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Jul-11-10 | | Once: <SpiritedReposte> I don't think that black can save his a pawn. If instead 42...Rc6, then 43. Qa4 forks rook and pawn. The rook cannot stay on the sixth rank to maintain protection of the pawn. Or 42...Ra8 - a horribly passive square for a rook. Then white invades on the queenside with moves like Qa4-Qc6 or Qa5-b6-b7 (depending on how black tries to keep him out by moving the bishop). Eventually the black rook will have to move away from the a file and the pawn will fall. So 42...Rc4 may be the best there is. In endgames it pays to keep your rooks active, even if that means dropping the odd pawn. In this case, I don't think that black can save the pawn anyway, so he might as well get his rook onto an active square. |
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Jul-11-10 | | eaglewing: Did both sides overlook
80. hxg4 Rc8+ 81. Kb6/7 Rc4 82. Q.. Rxg4? That should be a fortress! |
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Jul-11-10 | | SpiritedReposte: <Once> Ok I see 42. ...Ra8 won't fly. Just blockade on dark square and boom. Looking at this with no engine what about 42. ...Rc6 43. Qa4 Bd5? Could even go to e4 aftwards. Now e6 is in the air again but the rook guards the third rank well. Could of course be overlooking an easy pin/double attack/fork/everything that the queen is so good at. |
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Jul-11-10 | | rapidcitychess: Maybe a better title would be "Endgames 101" |
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Jul-11-10 | | I Like Fish: indeed ...
one o one ... |
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Jul-11-10 | | David2009: Wonderful pun but 98 Rg6 was a blunder. <An Englishman:[snip] perhaps Samisch created a perfect fortress and then pulled it down with his own errors?> Crafty End Game Trainer plays 98...Bd3 and is ready to answer 99 Qf3 with ...Bg6. <ONCE> has suggested a winning method (Yates vs Samisch, 1923), namely mate by playing Qf8 and Bf6: the resourceful Crafty plays Kg6 at the first opportunity to foil this scheme. Crafty EGT link to the position at move 94: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... Crafty agrees with the game until move 98, then diverges. Beat Crafty if you can! |
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Jul-11-10
 | | scormus: Well, I didnt expect such a drawn out battle, finishing it off was like that goal that I thought was NEVER going into the net tonight. A lesson to all the club players who would resign if they were down R for Q going into the endgame. And what I wonder is, why not 19 Re4? How often do you see all 4 N's on the 4 centra; squares? Its beautiful! |
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Jul-11-10 | | WhiteRook48: interesting game |
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Jul-12-10 | | Once: <SpiritedReposte> Great handle, BTW. I must confess that I hadn't considered the setup a6/Rc6/Bd5. That's probably because I instinctively don't like it. You see, I have grown to mistrust what I call PPP - pieces protecting pieces. If you have a chain of pieces with one protecting the other, your position becomes inflexible as nothing can move very far. And you can be vulnerable to deflection tactics. Having said that, Fritzie quite likes your idea. He rates 42...Rc4 as +3.13 and Rc6 as +3.23. Maybe the point is that white has few pieces left to disrupt black's chain of pieces. Good call!
<David2009> Yes, Fritz defends with Kg6 too. But the problem with this defence is that it relinquishes black's control of g8. So you shift the attack to g7 with Qg8 and Bf8. As soon as g7 falls, black is going to find it hard to construct a different fortress. |
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Jul-12-10 | | tonsillolith: I think the reason Black's fortress was rather effective (around move 50) was because of the pawn f5, which I believe was a really good shape move ;-) |
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Jul-12-10 | | kevin86: You would think that a queen for a rook would be easy,right? This one has a defensive fortress and bishops of opposite colors to battle against. So IT was as hard as a rockpile! |
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Jul-12-10 | | SpiritedReposte: Fritz seal of approval!! =) Thnx! |
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Jul-13-10 | | David2009: Thanks <Once> for some key attacking ideas. Enjoy your holiday in France. Meanwhile Black could have fought on for a bit in the final position:  click for larger view with 101. Rxg5. Crafty End Game Trainer link (a win starting Qe8 may be there but is not easy to find):
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... I posted an earlier Crafty EGT link (to position at move 94) see Yates vs Samisch, 1923 |
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Jul-15-10 | | eaglewing: I think the last option to draw might be on move 82. 82. Qg3 Rc8+ 83 Kb6 Rc4 forces White to exchange the pawn g4 with 84. g5 hg versus the h-pawn of Black. This is clearly better for Black than losing the pawn without compensation like in the game. The rook may move to g4 and g6 and protects g7. That looks like a draw. |
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Nov-10-15
 | | dernier loup de T: The tactical possibilities of this game are unbelievable... There is stuff for days of studying; for example after 35. Rxe8+! Rxe8 36.c6!!  |
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Nov-10-15
 | | dernier loup de T: Now let's examine a plausible continuation for the end of the game: 101...Rxg5 102.Kd4 Bg6 103.Qd7 Bf5 104. Qf7 Rg4+ 105. Ke3 Re4+ 106. Kf3 Bg6 107. e6 Bxf7 108 exf7 Re6 109. f8Kn+!! (the under promotion is necessary!!).... |
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Dec-24-22 | | N.O.F. NAJDORF: <Once: White's last move was 98. Kc5. This unpins the bishop and intends Kd4. When the white king arrives on d4, he protects e5 and the bishop is free to move. Then white has a sneaky threat. If allowed he plays Qf8, Be7 and Bf6 threatening mate on g7. It doesn't matter if black plays gxf6, as white would just recapture with a pawn and the mate threat stays in place.> 98...Bg6 99. Kd4 Bc2 100. Qf8 Bg6 101. Be7 Bh5 102. Ke4 Ra6 103. Bf6 Ra4+ 104. Ke3 Kg6 105. Qxg7+ Kf5 106. Qh6 Bd1 107. Qh7+ Ke6 108. g6 fxg6 109. Qxg6 Bb3 110. Bg7+ Ke7 111. Qd6+ Kf7 112. Qf6+ Ke8 113. e6 and white wins black's remaining pieces! |
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